2018 Leaf

cros13

Another new feature that escaped notice, Blind spot warning in the mirrors.

macnab

Keep an eye out for GOM estimates when watching 2018 Leaf videos.
So far I have seen 300km at 94% and 151miles at 91%. Obviously its impossible to tell what sort of trips the cars are doing ie fast, slow etc.
I still think that the 150mi/240km range mentioned in the release are low ball estimates to prevent red faces when the first real world test results appear on Youtube.

unkel

I would tend to agree with you there macnab. EPA test isn't really that heavy on 120km/h driving, so if the car is overall about 10% less efficient than Ioniq, it should get 90% * 40/28 * 200km = 260km EPA range. Which I think is probably a reasonably realistic estimate of EPA.

DrPhilG

I hope the guessometer is a bit less shyte than the current one.

Whether you have AC or DC at home the old problem of lack of power still applies. Two EV's charging at 7 Kw and bang goes your main ESB fuse without upgrading your single phase.

It's inevitable we'll see faster and faster charging but it could be 5+ years before we see above 100 Kw in Ireland for non Tesla owners.

There's nothing to stop the ESB installing 20 Kw DC points instead of AC points, I could car less as long as I can get a decent top up.

7 Kw will charge a 60 Kwh battery when you need it no problem and it's rare a 60 Kwh battery will be 100% discharged except maybe for those that do not want to plug in every night.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1112505_nine-things-you-should-know-about-the-2018-nissan-leaf-electric-car/page-2

Nissan engineers said the 40-kwh pack in the 2018 car uses the same form factor and connections as the earlier car's battery.



Interesting......

The electric motor that drives the 2018 Leaf's front wheels is the same one as in earlier Leafs, but Nissan has revised the control software to open up considerably more power.



So drivetrain unchanged, electronics also deemed unchanged, this is really sounding like the same OLD leaf.......

I do like the interior !

grogi

Deleted User wrote: »

So drivetrain unchanged, electronics also deemed unchanged, this is really sounding like the same OLD leaf.......

Because it was the battery, not the motor, that was limiting the power. It was obvious from the acceleration charts.

cros13

New product video (subtitles for english):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2SA1CtCUfA

goz83

No spare wheel?!!!

Ah lads, that's the most disappointing part. Aside from the looks, that was the biggest complaint with the leaf. :pac:

I think they have done conservatively well with this model.

Not what I was referring to, what I was referring to is that if this is true then it's not as much as an update as I thought.

Electric motors can take huge amounts of peak power, especially those that are liquid cooled.

I think the existing 24 Kwh battery was rated for 90 Kw.

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

Electric motors can take huge amounts of peak power, especially those that are liquid cooled.

Here's lonestar running their four TransWarp motors on their drag car at 10 times the rated current.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LQXB1DX-2Q

plasma and motor brushes disintegrating

Nice that we don't have to worry about brushes with the three-phase AC motors.

LOL DC motors are not really suited for EV use.

thierry14

[Deleted User] wrote: »

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1112505_nine-things-you-should-know-about-the-2018-nissan-leaf-electric-car/page-2

Nissan engineers said the 40-kwh pack in the 2018 car uses the same form factor and connections as the earlier car's battery.



Interesting......

The electric motor that drives the 2018 Leaf's front wheels is the same one as in earlier Leafs, but Nissan has revised the control software to open up considerably more power.



So drivetrain unchanged, electronics also deemed unchanged, this is really sounding like the same OLD leaf.......

Am actually glad to hear that

Leaf motor has been very reliable

Good thing they havent changed it

150bhp is impressive then

thierry14

stesaurus wrote: »

Really good to see you on here and being positive about EV's. I remember feeling like we were banging our heads against a wall explaining the torque etc.

i3 is definitely up there in regards performance, must give you a quick spin in one some day!

That would be cool

If your ever around limerick give me a shout

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

LOL DC motors are not really suited for EV use.

Brushed DC is fine for drag cars 'cause of the torque and simplicity. But regularly replacing the brushes and cooling the damn thing is a bit of a pain.

oppenheimer1

Its a much nicer looking car than the Leaf 1, dropping the quirky looks will improve its mass appeal. That said, it doesn't really offer much over the Ioniq, which is a shame.

Ioniq 2 will be a far better buy, assuming they restyle that ridiculous grill.

grogi

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Ioniq 2 will be a far better buy, assuming they restyle that ridiculous grill.

Aren't you forgetting about tiny little detail? Even the Ioniq 1 is rare like a unicorn. Ioniq 2 raises the bar even further...

oppenheimer1

grogi wrote: »

Aren't you forgetting about tiny little detail? Even the Ioniq 1 is rare like a unicorn. Ioniq 2 raises the bar even further...

Assuming Hyundai are in the business of wanting to shift more product, its no great jump to assume they are working on ways to ramp up production to meet demand.


Its hard to know what the future brings - Leaf is assembled in the UK, so whats going to happen there in 2019, and Nissans ability to deliver in future.

unkel

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

it doesn't really offer much over the Ioniq

More range, less standard spec, similar price. And presumably you can actually get your hands on a Leaf 2 if you want one! And no, it doesn't look like the Ioniq availability will pick up soon. On the contrary, the car is proving very popular in the USA and at the moment is only for sale in select dealers in California only. It is more attractive for Hyundai to let more cars go to the USA than to make RHD cars for the UK and here. Availability of UK cars is even worse than here. And somehow Hyundai also insist on keeping half the production of the Ioniqs in South Korea. This problem is far from being solved.

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Ioniq 2 will be a far better buy

I'd say the first non-demo Ioniq 2 in Ireland will be on a 191 plate. So can't really compare with a 181 Leaf 2

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

assuming they restyle that ridiculous grill.

Meh. A 1 hour €90 professionally applied wrap fixes that issue. Or get the black pack (official option) from a Hyundai dealer in another country.

Hang on lads, Ioniq 2 would be a brand new model and it came out in 2016 ? seriously doubt a brand new model will be available that soon.

cros13

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Assuming Hyundai are in the business of wanting to shift more product, its no great jump to assume they are working on ways to ramp up production to meet demand.

• LG Chem are the only source for the batteries.
• Hyundai placed their order with LG Chem two years ago and even without being on sale in all the target markets, and after closing some markets to new orders, Ioniq EV orders so far in 2017 have exceeded the total year estimates by more than 2.5X
• With orders on the books from 28 carmakers LG Chem has no spare production capacity, they are increasing the size of the Cheongju plant by 50% and Hyundai group has bought most of the new production but the new lines are a year or so away from operation.
• LG Group has been reluctant to give LG Chem capital or allow it to borrow for expansion without firm orders from customers for the new production. The majority of the customer base has been, frankly, under the delusion that if they need to ramp production they can buy batteries on the open market... and reluctant to sign on the dotted line when financial guarantees were required.
• Hyundai Group's Enercell division only has battery manufacturing experience of small scale lead acid and NiMH, has no tooling or production facility suitable for lithium ion production and would need to negotiate licensing of LG Chem's chemistries and production methods
• No batteries = no Ioniqs

peposhi

Nicest video on the 2018 Leaf I have watched so far:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk0d4wFXmsw


Stayed up last night to watch the presentation...
Have to say that I do like both interior and exterior.
The current Leaf was more of a "come see me, I'm electric" car drawing attention.
The new shape is looking more like an ordinary ICE car and it's aimed to be accepted by a mass amount of people. It is expected by Nissan the sales figures to double the current.
The front looks like a mix of a Qashkai and the new Micra. The rear - a mix of Juke, a Prius and... a Skoda Rapid hahaha. It is a lovely looking car even though my wife said today that it's ugly and that she loves the shape of our current Leaf (go figure that out, Mad_Lad...).

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

Right, I agree with that, but the reality is that we do have AC in every house and I can't see the entire country changing their domestic systems to DC.
Maybe we misunderstand each other? Maybe all you are just saying is all EV's will have DC only chargers and you will have a DC charger at home but the rest of the house will be AC as it is today?

If its just that then fine but you will still be bound by the limit of your local transformer which will still have you limited to <12kW for a standard connection. You won't be seeing 22kW DC charging at home any time soon!

And do you really need to charge overnight faster than 6.6kW. I don't think you do, unless you have a 75kWH+ car and even then its debatable whether you would need it unless you were using the full 75kWh's everyday (500+km)

That's precisely what I am saying.
Perhaps your home DC charging will have its own separate metered connection to the grid and can take 13kW for itself. Perhaps (shhhhh) that's how motor taxation for home charging will be implemented.

You may not need to charge faster than 6.6. But people dont need to drive 200-400km per day either, yet that is part of the demand for an EV. It's a want not a need. Up to now, people are not buying EV until the wants as well as the needs are met.

I don't see an EV in 10-15-20 years even being fitted with an AC charger.
Like how nowadays you can't buy a combined betamax/vhs player, or even really a combined DVD/VHS. One standard always prevails.

It could be argued that DVD is on the way out aswell.

Shefwedfan

Ok so the new Leaf does look nice, I will give it that. THe issue I have is they announce a new model and at same launch announce a newer model. So why would I buy the new model? Why would I not just wait till the newer model is released?

If I bought the new model then the price would drop like a rock so why not wait till newer model comes out and pick up the 40kWh one on the cheap?

unkel

In a developing tech like EVs there's always something better around the corner!

Casati

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ok so the new Leaf does look nice, I will give it that. THe issue I have is they announce a new model and at same launch announce a newer model. So why would I buy the new model? Why would I not just wait till the newer model is released?

If I bought the new model then the price would drop like a rock so why not wait till newer model comes out and pick up the 40kWh one on the cheap?

My guess is that they are doing a Tesla on it and will seriously charge you if you want the 60kWh versus the 40kWh. car companies have been charging a lot more for big engine options forever and they will charge a lot more for bigger range electric cars.

Its amazing that on other threads most owners of EV's spend a lot of time convincing prospective EV buyers that current range isn't an issue and a 24kwh Lead should be perfect for their commute, but most of the posts about the new Leaf are concerned with range and charging time!

Why aren't you taking about 0-100kmph, mid range acceleration, handling, ride, legroom, boot space and indeed styling

Soarer

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ok so the new Leaf does look nice, I will give it that. THe issue I have is they announce a new model and at same launch announce a newer model. So why would I buy the new model? Why would I not just wait till the newer model is released?

If I bought the new model then the price would drop like a rock so why not wait till newer model comes out and pick up the 40kWh one on the cheap?

Don't think it'll happen like that.

When the 60kWh version comes out, it'll have a premium over the 40kWh version. The 40 won't drop in price, the 60 will be more expensive.
Just like today with the 30kWh and 24kWh. The 24 is the price, and if you want the 30, you spec it up and pay €3k for the privilege.

I reckon they announced it for people that want more than the 40kwh, but may be swayed by something else in the mean time. This way, they know what the car looks like, and they know the 60kWh is coming.

unkel

Casati wrote: »

Its amazing that on other threads most owners of EV's spend a lot of time convincing prospective EV buyers that current range isn't an issue and a 24kwh Lead should be perfect for their commute, but most of the posts about the new Leaf are concerned with range

You have a point, Casati. But the problem with the 24kWh Leaf was that range was really extremely limiting. Like you needed 3 stops from Donegal to Dublin. Most of the owners could live with that but for most of them at times it must have been a real pain. Some owners on longish commutes even had to charge during the commute!

With the current (second) generation of EVs, that pain has largely gone away. Ioniq, Zoe 41, Leaf 2, eGolf can all do a significant range before needing a recharge. Donegal to Dublin in 1 stop. No charging every day on the commute. But I do agree that there is very little relevance going from 40kWh to 60kWh for 90% of the people. Even though most people think it is relevant to them

bk

Casati wrote: »

Its amazing that on other threads most owners of EV's spend a lot of time convincing prospective EV buyers that current range isn't an issue and a 24kwh Lead should be perfect for their commute, but most of the posts about the new Leaf are concerned with range and charging time!

Because despite all the convincing, many people like me decided not to buy something like a 24kwh Leaf and decided to wait for a more suitable longer range vehicle. This unfortunately isn't it. It is a competitor to the Ioniq. That is good news, but it doesn't really significantly shift the goal posts.

Casati wrote: »

Why aren't you taking about 0-100kmph, mid range acceleration, handling, ride, legroom, boot space and indeed styling

Because with EV's the most important thing is still range, at least in these early days. All those are nice, but they won't significantly shift the market.