beef price tracker

rangler1 · 31-08-2017 06:58AM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The fact is rangler is that we cannot form producer groups until the processors are forced to negotiate with us. It is not in there interest that we have that right. This is where you misunderstand the difference between beef and lamb. A complete lamb goes to one market. It is not the same with a steer or heifer. The steaks may go one direction and they will steak as much as possible. After that the carcass is split to different markets. most beef is now vacum packed into different cuts for different market specs.

What is inspec in one market is out of spec in another. A neighbour bought a bunch of aged(26-30) month cattle last year. They were very light for age some were suckler bred cattle 400-440kgs and Friesians 380-400kgs. He killed the Friesians last june sub 300kgs DW however the suckler bred cattle only came fit in the last few weeks. They were gone over 36 months but because they killed sub 350kgs there was no problem getting them slaughtered he got the normal base but felt he had little bargaining power but he was not penalized by the factory that they went to.

Very few finishers will have an issue supplying stock to spec, what few realize is that processors now prefer lighter carcasses that we imagine down sub 330 kgs but with a fat cover of 3. There is plenty of attractive beef out there but as producers we cannot negotiate until the legislation is in place. However it will not suit larger feedlot farmers as everyone will have a chance to grab the same price and contract the cattle in at that price.

The day of the complete lamb going to one market is well gone, ICM has spent millions on developing different products from lamb.
THere's no legislation going to happen, Public service interference with any industry is bad news, they never seem to see any implications of their messing, Government is better to stay out of it, if they achieved a decent health service, law enforcemnt, wateways manangement it'd be a start.....and you want them involved in meat processing....forget it

valtra2 · 03-09-2017 12:01AM

cute geoge wrote: »

What breed is she ???
If she is tight cow without a big belly suckler bred she could kill out 48/49% multiply that by price quoted lets say €3.30 =€1480
deduct haulage +factory levies - 40
€1440 best case sceaniro

Will stick to the mart I think. 1760 925kg 9year old

Never wrestle with pigs · 03-09-2017 09:49AM

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

This is a scandal ,QA is a means of paying under the odds for premium beef which is sold on as value added ,QA should be boycotted.

Any way cattle whether they are 1kg or 100kg out of spec that the farmer doesn't get payed the qa is cut and put in the same truck as any inspec cattle. They love this type of beef because it's cheap.

The fifth quater is another good one. I've seen the invoices, last year they were getting nearly €5 kg for tungs, beef cheeks, tryp, and another off cut I can't remember the name of.

Liver, kidneys, esophagus, and pancreas going for dog food at €3.00 kg

The leather going for €30.00 per animal.

The hoofs and shin packed and sold to Africa. Stomach lining sold to China.

Big U grade cull cows sold to France for €7.00 kg

Weighing scales set at -2 kg everywhere to cater for the 1 kg hook that they use to hang the cattle with. Another free kg thanks.

All that extra fat trimming for oil to sell.

Dodge grading system that needs to be flung out the door.

In a really well run modern factory the fifth quarter payes all overheads and every gram of red meat is profit.

This is gold. They get audited by themselves. Ah yes a good pat on the back, a cup of tea, and I'll just leave that envelope there.

They are worse than any criminal gang and who is going to stop them? I've seen first hand a new head vet taking over a factory and digging heals in to get everything to run as it should by the letter of the law and that same vet was replaced a few weeks later because the factory had the power or leverage in the department of ag. Ag officials turn a blind eye to things and be in drinking tea for a few hours. If they say anything they loose their cushy numbers and the €80.00 per hour we pay them.

I could write a book on it. They run everything even our department of agg ffs. They are untouchable.

Our government body needs a major shakeup. And qu needs a big shake up or scraped. Using it to pull base price. No one with the power has the balls to do anything about it.

Huge investment needs to be put in to try create more live exports. Not this crap you here about China that will only make money for Larry and not a cent to the farmer.

The whole industry is rotten to the core.

rangler1 · 03-09-2017 11:22AM

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

Any way cattle whether they are 1kg or 100kg out of spec that the farmer doesn't get payed the qa is cut and put in the same truck as any inspec cattle. They love this type of beef because it's cheap.

The fifth quater is another good one. I've seen the invoices, last year they were getting nearly €5 kg for tungs, beef cheeks, tryp, and another off cut I can't remember the name of.

Liver, kidneys, esophagus, and pancreas going for dog food at €3.00 kg

The leather going for €30.00 per animal.

The hoofs and shin packed and sold to Africa. Stomach lining sold to China.

Big U grade cull cows sold to France for €7.00 kg

Weighing scales set at -2 kg everywhere to cater for the 1 kg hook that they use to hang the cattle with. Another free kg thanks.

All that extra fat trimming for oil to sell.

Dodge grading system that needs to be flung out the door.

In a really well run modern factory the fifth quarter payes all overheads and every gram of red meat is profit.

This is gold. They get audited by themselves. Ah yes a good pat on the back, a cup of tea, and I'll just leave that envelope there.

They are worse than any criminal gang and who is going to stop them? I've seen first hand a new head vet taking over a factory and digging heals in to get everything to run as it should by the letter of the law and that same vet was replaced a few weeks later because the factory had the power or leverage in the department of ag. Ag officials turn a blind eye to things and be in drinking tea for a few hours. If they say anything they loose their cushy numbers and the €80.00 per hour we pay them.

I could write a book on it. They run everything even our department of agg ffs. They are untouchable.

Our government body needs a major shakeup. And qu needs a big shake up or scraped. Using it to pull base price. No one with the power has the balls to do anything about it.

Huge investment needs to be put in to try create more live exports. Not this crap you here about China that will only make money for Larry and not a cent to the farmer.

The whole industry is rotten to the core.

Grass is always greener etc etc......don't know much about it but are the two half carcases not weighed together, ie two hooks.
I'd imagine you're allowed the value of the offal in the price, probably ten or twenty cents/kg. I know a drop in value of lamb skins make a huge difference to lamb pricee when it happens.
You should be loading a forty foot fridge trailer with cow carcases if you can turn that on them.
Isn't there a saying that everyone should walk a mile in other mens shoes or something

Never wrestle with pigs · 03-09-2017 11:28AM

rangler1 wrote: »

Grass is always greener etc etc......don't know much about it but are the two half carcases not weighed together, ie two hooks.
I'd imagine you're allowed the value of the offal in the price, probably ten or twenty cents/kg. I know a drop in value of lamb skins make a huge difference when it happens.
You should be loading a forty foot fridge trailer with cow carcases if you can turn that on them

Two sides are weighed individually, so actually I never thought of it that it's actually two free kgs per animal.

The cows for that money are the big u= u+ grade girls.

The leather was making close to €70 about 10 years ago.

It's just tip of the iceberg stuff that the monkey (i.e. Me) knows.

Pidae.m · 03-09-2017 11:33AM

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

Two sides are weighed individually, so actually I never thought of it that it's actually two free kgs per animal.

The cows for that money are the big u= u+ grade girls.

The leather was making close to €70 about 10 years ago.

It's just tip of the iceberg stuff that the monkey (i.e. Me) knows.

Ya a lad at home here is working for a factory the last year and a half. Says from what he has seen behind the scenes that farmers haven't hope.

Also the fat trimming from factory to factory is a disgrace.

rangler1 · 03-09-2017 11:39AM

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

Two sides are weighed individually, so actually I never thought of it that it's actually two free kgs per animal.

The cows for that money are the big u= u+ grade girls.

The leather was making close to €70 about 10 years ago.

It's just tip of the iceberg stuff that the monkey (i.e. Me) knows.

The gist of my post is that there's nothing stopping you selling or slaughtering yourself, A neghbour has a nice little earner in an abbatoir and he started 30 yrs ago in a 12ft by 12ft butchers shop in the local village and has bought 100acres plus and built his abbatoir in a greenfield site.
His first little shop is still rented out.....to a barber and it;s barely big enough for even that.
Plenty begrudging these guys but not prepared to put in the work, as you say it's a money machine if you just get your finger out

Never wrestle with pigs · 03-09-2017 11:51AM

rangler1 wrote: »

The gist of my post is that there's nothing stopping you selling or slaughtering yourself, A neghbour has a nice little earner in an abbatoir and he started 30 yrs ago in a 12ft by 12ft butchers shop in the local village and has bought 100acres plus and built his abbatoir in a greenfield site.
His first little shop is still rented out.....to a barber and it;s barely big enough for even that.
Plenty begrudging these guys but not prepared to put in the work, as you say it's a money machine if you just get your finger out

In the last person to begrudge someone making a buck. Trust me on that. But plain robbery is different. Unfortunately you can't just decide to start like that anymore with rules and regs these days and don't forget jobs for the boys.

You'd be at nothing with anything less than €500k to start that now and I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth.

rangler1 · 03-09-2017 12:01PM

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

In the last person to begrudge someone making a buck. Trust me on that. But plain robbery is different. Unfortunately you can't just decide to start like that anymore with rules and regs these days and don't forget jobs for the boys.

You'd be at nothing with anything less than €500k to start that now and I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth.

The guy in my post wasn't either.....quite the oppsite in fact, hard working family.
Stupid throwing around hearsay like you have and afraid to prove or disprove.
Saw a guy doing it in a meeting, he either had to apologise or go to court :rolleyes:

Never wrestle with pigs · 03-09-2017 12:50PM

rangler1 wrote: »

Saw a guy doing it in a meeting, he either had to apologise or go to court :rolleyes:

Exactly why I am not allowed to prove it to you. It would be illegal. I'm not going to start an argument with you over it because I might as well be talking to a plank. The more people that talk about it the better as someone in power might eventually pull the finger out. But I doubt it.

rangler1 · 03-09-2017 01:35PM

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

Exactly why I am not allowed to prove it to you. It would be illegal. I'm not going to start an argument with you over it because I might as well be talking to a plank. The more people that talk about it the better as someone in power might eventually pull the finger out. But I doubt it.

I see, You won't act on hearsay but you expect someone else to........riiiggggght.

Willfarman · 03-09-2017 01:45PM

there was plenty of hearsay about pablo Escobar in the 80's but what hope had a few honest men against such power wealth and tyranny..,

Wes Palmer Lee · 03-09-2017 04:25PM

they were never the same after Kym Marsh left if you ask me......!

Never wrestle with pigs · 03-09-2017 04:25PM

rangler1 wrote: »

I see, You won't act on hearsay but you expect someone else to........riiiggggght.

Not hearsay, I've worked inside one of the big ones and saw allot. Who would listen? The just as bent ifa? Oh ya the factory collects their wage too! The dep of agg? They do what they want it's as simple as they that.

rangler1 · 03-09-2017 04:46PM

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

Not hearsay, I've worked inside one of the big ones and saw allot. Who would listen? The just as bent ifa? Oh ya the factory collects their wage too! The dep of agg? They do what they want it's as simple as they that.

You know you can prove nothing, there's plenty out there that'd pick up the gauntlet if it was any credibility to your claims.
I'm not happy with prices but I wouldn't be bothered making spurious accusation about the processors because of it.

Willfarman · 03-09-2017 06:13PM

The wealth of an industry worth 2.5 billion a year to the detriment of entire rural economy is in the control of half dozen families. There is no one to take up the gauntlet for the down trodden.

The list of scandals that Larry goodman has come through unscathed would prove you are talking out of your proverbial rangler.

Willfarman · 03-09-2017 06:27PM

http://www.thatsfarming.com/news/profile-larry-goodman-controversy-and-success-a-profile-of-ireland-s-biggest-beef-baron

rangler1 · 03-09-2017 06:31PM

Willfarman wrote: »

The wealth of an industry worth 2.5 billion a year to the detriment of entire rural economy is in the control of half dozen families. There is no one to take up the gauntlet for the down trodden.

The list of scandals that Larry goodman has come through unscathed would prove you are talking out of your proverbial rangler.

No, just proving that you haven't the courage of your convictions, It's simple, Either it's true or not.....As they say in After Hours ''Pics or gtfo'' ....at the moment it just sounds lame, sad even,
Incidentally if you do put these guy outa business who are you putting in their place, there's no one queueing up to buy factories

Base price · 03-09-2017 07:50PM

rangler1 wrote: »

No, just proving that you haven't the courage of your convictions, It's simple, Either it's true or not.....As they say in After Hours ''Pics or gtfo'' ....at the moment it just sounds lame, sad even,
Incidentally if you do put these guy outa business who are you putting in their place, there's no one queueing up to buy factories

Here we go again

Can anyone explain to me why there are no figure/results published on the required EU mandatory checks by our Dept on VIA (Video Image Analysis) machines in the meat factories/plants where they are used to classify the carcasses that we are paid on.
As far as I remember at the time (2002/2003?), the State - that's you, I and every citizen paid (at considerable cost to the exchequer) for the purchase and instillation of VIA equipment in meat plants. I remember because at the time there was controversy in Brussels that it amounted to State intervention within the beef industry which was not allowed, however it seems to have been ignored possibly due to IFA intervention?
Since we (the State) paid for the machines - thereby giving the factories a big freggin financial leg up - we have a right to have access to all the data, in particular EU mandatory checks by factory.
I have stated previously on another simular thread that a FOI request needs to be submitted to obtain this information.
Edit: seems to me there is no appetite to request such info - rock the boat too much etc, etc...

gerryirl · 03-09-2017 08:05PM

i think rangler1 is actually Larry goodman ....lol

rangler1 · 03-09-2017 08:12PM

Base price wrote: »

Here we go again
Can anyone explain to me why there are no figure/results published on the required EU mandatory checks by our Dept on VIA (Video Image Analysis) machines in the meat factories/plants where they are used to classify the carcasses that we are paid on.
As far as I remember at the time (2002/2003?), the State - that's you, I and every citizen paid (at considerable cost to the exchequer) for the purchase and instillation of VIA equipment in meat plants. I remember because at the time there was controversy in Brussels that it amounted to State intervention within the beef industry which was not allowed, however it seems to have been ignored possibly due to IFA intervention?
Since we (the State) paid for the machines - thereby giving the factories a big freggin financial leg up - we have a right to have access to all the data, in particular EU mandatory checks by factory.
I have stated previously on another simular thread that a FOI request needs to be submitted to obtain this information.
Edit: seems to me there is no appetite to request such info - rock the boat too much etc, etc...

I've asked plenty for proof of what's claimed here and there was none, and I've learnt the hard way to not go into anything just on a farmers say so, so forgive me if i sound sceptical.
I'm finishing farming now but I'd only be delighted to hear a farmer actually putting some effort into these claims, but it's not gonna happen so we just have read more and more of this rubbish

gerryirl · 03-09-2017 08:29PM

your finishing farming .. can I ask why?

mf240 · 03-09-2017 08:30PM

Does a bear ****e in the woods.

According to rangler, only If someone has photos

mf240 · 03-09-2017 08:32PM

gerryirl wrote: »

your finishing farming .. can I ask why?

He's going into public relations. That kind of charismatic personality was wasted on the sheep

Base price · 03-09-2017 08:38PM

rangler1 wrote: »

I've asked plenty for proof of what's claimed here and there was none, and I've learnt the hard way to not go into anything just on a farmers say so, so forgive me if i sound sceptical.
I'm finishing farming now but I'd only be delighted to hear a farmer actually putting some effort into these claims, but it's not gonna happen so we just have read more and more of this rubbish

In fairness Rangler you are thoroughly consistent. Your above response is more or less a carbon copy of your previous response to my simular previous post.
Here is a clip from 2008 DEFRA report - https://screenshots.firefox.com/gyncaZhq3lyNHZ6k/webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk
From the original DEFRA report http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20110318141910/http://www.defra.gov.uk/evidence/economics/foodfarm/reports/carcaseclassification/Full%20Version.pdf

rangler1 · 03-09-2017 08:40PM

gerryirl wrote: »

your finishing farming .. can I ask why?

Time to retire, time marching on etc etc

Base price · 03-09-2017 08:43PM

rangler1 wrote: »

Time to retire, time marching on etc etc

When is your sale - sometime early September from memory.

rangler1 · 03-09-2017 08:50PM

Base price wrote: »

In fairness Rangler you are thoroughly consistent. Your above response is more or less a carbon copy of your previous response to my simular previous post.
Here is a clip from 2008 DEFRA report - https://screenshots.firefox.com/gyncaZhq3lyNHZ6k/webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk
From the original DEFRA report http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20110318141910/http://www.defra.gov.uk/evidence/economics/foodfarm/reports/carcaseclassification/Full%20Version.pdf

Here's a fair question then, if these knowalls know so much about the inconsistencies in factories, why don't they follow it up.
I don't care what any report says, a friend used to claim that the paper in them was a bit hard for what he'd use them for.
Quoting Public service doesn't impress me as you know

rangler1 · 03-09-2017 08:53PM

Base price wrote: »

When is your sale - sometime early September from memory.

Next Saturday, it'll be a big ask, 350 ewes for sale, 2.30 in TULLAMORE MART,
Thanks for giving the lead in to advertise it

rangler1 · 03-09-2017 09:06PM

mf240 wrote: »

He's going into public relations. That kind of charismatic personality was wasted on the sheep

I was always brought to meetings with politicians because of my PR skills, pity more farmers aren't capable of putting the boot in when there's an issue

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