beef price tracker

CloughCasey1

Lads. There will be no producer groups. Even if there was it would be another toothless tiger full of empty promises and hot air. It's gas looking at unions for other groups negotiating trade talks and pay deals. They are all talk and gain pittance of wage increases for their members while talking themselves up and charging their members for the privilege. Great men entirely. To make changes and to get changes you need power and money. And unfortunately all the power and all the money is on the other side. Remember we live in a corrupt little country where money talks and talk is cheap.

Danzy

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Lads. There will be no producer groups. Even if there was it would be another toothless tiger full of empty promises and hot air. It's gas looking at unions for other groups negotiating trade talks and pay deals. They are all talk and gain pittance of wage increases for their members while talking themselves up and charging their members for the privilege. Great men entirely. To make changes and to get changes you need power and money. And unfortunately all the power and all the money is on the other side. Remember we live in a corrupt little country where money talks and talk is cheap.

Jesus, lol, the last 20 years it was only a fool who wasn't in an Unionized job.

Unfortunately, I might sound harsh but your approach seems to be to lie down and take it.

CloughCasey1

Danzy wrote: »

Jesus, lol, the last 20 years it was only a fool who wasn't in an Unionized job.

Unfortunately, I might sound harsh but your approach seems to be to lie down and take it.

If the IFA don't stand up and fully get behind the the plight of the beef sector as they are supposed to be the organisation that stands up for the farming community and not just the dairy boys. Then we are only pi$$ing against the breeze. If we can't get our own "union" to look out and after us then how is anyone else going to take us seriously? Any producers group even if it was done right through farmers alone would be welcomed by the beef processing industry to the media and headlines in newspapers and loads of camera opportunities with one hand and stubbed out like a cigarette with the other.

patsy_mccabe

I cant see how any producer group would have any sort of bargaining power. Threaten the factory with what? Keep the cattle till they go overage and over fat.:mad:

Danzy

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

If the IFA don't stand up and fully get behind the the plight of the beef sector as they are supposed to be the organisation that stands up for the farming community and not just the dairy boys. Then we are only pi$$ing against the breeze. If we can't get our own "union" to look out and after us then how is anyone else going to take us seriously? Any producers group even if it was done right through farmers alone would be welcomed by the beef processing industry to the media and headlines in newspapers and loads of camera opportunities with one hand and stubbed out like a cigarette with the other.

I agree with that.

CloughCasey1

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I cant see how any producer group would have any sort of bargaining power. Threaten the factory with what? Keep the cattle till they go overage and over fat.:mad:

No clout whatsoever Patsy. There are three types of beef farmer.

1. The big fulltime beef farmer who works his bollix off and has his job down to a "T". This man is happy to be getting his 5-10c more than the normal joe soap and thinks that is his pot of gold when in fact he is licking the crumbs from the table bruahed onto the floor like a pet house dog.

2. The part time farmer that works his bollix off both on and off the farm and sees his 900euro purchase as a good way to make 250euro in 12 Mts when the same money might only make 15euro stuck in the bank.

3. The armchair farmer completely understocked with supermodel limo and ch crosses with Beyonce arses and backs you would sleep on. All he cares about is his SFP and how great a man he is with his show cattle.

All the Dairy boys have their costs down the last cent and the main thing is that it is their FULL TIME job which for the majority of beef farming it's only a hobby. More of a point that the factories will never take us seriously.

Hard Knocks

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

No clout whatsoever Patsy. There are three types of beef farmer.

1. The big fulltime beef farmer who works his bollix off and has his job down to a "T". This man is happy to be getting his 5-10c more than the normal joe soap and thinks that is his pot of gold when in fact he is licking the crumbs from the table bruahed onto the floor like a pet house dog.

2. The part time farmer that works his bollix off both on and off the farm and sees his 900euro purchase as a good way to make 250euro in 12 Mts when the same money might only make 15euro stuck in the bank.

3. The armchair farmer completely understocked with supermodel limo and ch crosses with Beyonce arses and backs you would sleep on. All he cares about is his SFP and how great a man he is with his show cattle.

All the Dairy boys have their costs down the last cent and the main thing is that it is their FULL TIME job which for the majority of beef farming it's only a hobby. More of a point that the factories will never take us seriously.

Just to add to your post, sadly the processors hold the aces as there is very few options/markets for the farmer,

Also farmer 2 dreams that he can retire early from paying job to farm full time (mortgage paid & kids finished college)

rangler1

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Two years ago because recognised the imbalance in the producer/processors relationship the EU Comission gave the greenlight to allow large sized producer groups to negotiate prices between farmers and processors. They are already been put in place in some countries example France. Normally such groups that could have a controlling influence on price would be considered anti competitive.

It is worth noting that as recently as early this year the EU commission again intervened in the meat market to insist that meat processors will have to publish there accounts even though technically they are unlimited companies. This was for two reasons they see an imbalance in the market and also several of the so called unlimited companies such as AIBP were in fact limited entities. AIBP operates out of the Isle of Man

To give you an idea below you can see some of the draft guidline that would have been allowed. These guideline would allow producer groups negotiate base prices, forward pricing etc but it would also have forced processors to negotiate national base prices. Take the situation where by the AA and HE schemes give a bonus but the base price is negotiated locally by the farmer. The AA bonus where they give a forward booking bonus but this open to widescale abuse where the base price is for such cattle at these time is reduced by 5-10 cent by the local procurement managers.


http://ec.europa.eu/competition/consultations/2015_cmo_regulation/draft_guidelines%20_en.pdf

Rangler are you telling me that the AA and HE cattle that the processors are not in spec, not only are they in spec but as even cattle that do not recieve the bonus are still sold to supermarkets for that scheme but the farmer is shafted. Rangler you are living in vacum in what happened 20 years ago. No processor will allow a beef producer group to negotiate a national base price at present. In reality they along with the IFA have lobbied against or for the legislation to be watered down by allowing some special producer groups to be set up.

I have followed this since it started it is hard to believe we are still 3 years down the road and still we do not have the legislation. So Rangler it is you who are BSing. Like the IFA you consider the suckler cow to be scarsconant when in reality the processors are creaming it on O grade cattle that provide up to 50% of the national kill. The EU price average hide the fact that Irish beef producers are are actually receiveing about10c/kg less than the actual published data suggest.

Patsy sterling is outside out control yes it has a huge influence at present but in reality it is only costing us 40% of the present price drop. But the real story is that UK beef prices have risen over the same period as the fall in sterling. From what I hear even though they have 3-4K extra cattle a week compared to June/July processosr cold rooms are not full as liked happened previously when the kill climbed for the autumn. It is easy to sell a cheap top class productr even though Rangler thinks that the processoors want only R grade cattle. Asd I have told him lots of time lamb is a totally different product. it is easy to have a set spec on Pigs, chicken and lamb as all are slaughtered sub 6 months.

We could produce such a product in Bulls but the demand is not really there. The UK supermarket requied steers and heifers from 280-340kgs but will take them up to 370ish or down to 250kgs.

So you think legislation is utopia, sadly you have to have something the market wants if you want to sell, legislation has nothing to do with demand.

Like any business you have to produce competitively. Larry seems to be able to buy beef cheaper than here, will legislation be able to make him buy here if it doesn't suit him, i doubt it, last I looked it was a euro/kg cheaper in poland than here, You claim I focus on R grade Cattle, do you want to compete with O grade cattle in Poland, Last time I was in France they were wondering how we were being paid so much for cattle...can we compete there, I doubt it, we have to go in there with lamb at a euro/kg cheaper than french lamb to get on the shelves.
Blame IFA if it makes you happy but the truth is we're too dear

http://www.bordbia.ie/industry/farmers/pricetracking/cattle/pages/prices.aspx

Muckit

I'm most like farmer number 3 . no point running around like a blue arse fly. Hard bring it all with you and especially when we all can agree the margins just aren't in it.

CloughCasey1

Muckit wrote: »

I'm most like farmer number 3 . no point running around like a blue arse fly. Hard bring it all with you and especially when we all can agree the margins just aren't in it.

Ah me auld Muckit, you're more of a 2 than you'll ever let on☺.

Fine Day

Just quoted 385 for heifers and 375 for steers. Sickened as i have stock fit for to go.

kk.man

There must be some way of protesting that upset the factories and supermarkets. The IF A are getting paid enough or paying advisers to come up with some plan.

I know and not advocating what Tom Parlon in did a few years back ... unfortunately that ended in a high court judgement against that type of protesting. It might be worthwhile bringing a test case to the Supreme court to see it's validity. The right to protest peacefully is enshrined in the constitution.

Cavanjack

tatoo wrote: »

I'm being quoted 3.75 ( kepak )

Got 3.80 off them yesterday for bullocks

Wes Palmer Lee

Muckit wrote: »

I'm most like farmer number 3 . no point running around like a blue arse fly. Hard bring it all with you and especially when we all can agree the margins just aren't in it.

I was farmer number 3 but, just like the gullible gambler at the roulette table, I bought in big this year and now I am farmer number 2....
I now feel like a complete twit.... I'm gonna wait 6 more weeks then sell off and take my punishment whatever it will be!
BTW my jobber(advisor) assures me cattle will get dear again come the end of October......as Judge Judy says "I DON'T BELIEVE YOU"...!!

Never wrestle with pigs

What I don't get is with the hit sterling is taking, why are we paying for it? Why are we trading in sterling and not euro?

They voted for britex, they are buying our beef, why isn't the English consumer paying more for the beef in the shop with sterling diving. Instead we take the hit!

CloughCasey1

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

What I don't get is with the hit sterling is taking, why are we paying for it? Why are we trading in sterling and not euro?

They voted for britex, they are buying our beef, why isn't the English consumer paying more for the beef in the shop with sterling diving. Instead we take the hit!

Dont be thinking about it. All that thinking and wondering is way above our paygrade.

CloughCasey1

kk.man wrote: »

There must be some way of protesting that upset the factories and supermarkets. The IF A are getting paid enough or paying advisers to come up with some plan.

I know and not advocating what Tom Parlon in did a few years back ... unfortunately that ended in a high court judgement against that type of protesting. It might be worthwhile bringing a test case to the Supreme court to see it's validity. The right to protest peacefully is enshrined in the constitution.

95% of businesses fail due to poor leadership and lack of management not poor employees. Micheal Donoghue captained Clarinbridge to a county title.......then he managed them to a county title and an all Ireland from nowhere. Now he has brought us to the holy grail last Sunday. This is not a coincidence. It is the top down approach that will make life better for the beef farmer. No matter how efficient us minions are, no matter how hard we individually moan, bitch, protest or fight we will not get results until we have the management in place (IFA) to lead us to the promised land. Why do I say IFA....because that's supposed to be their fcuking job.

patsy_mccabe

Anthony Considine in Clare has a similar record. Pity he came up against the 'Clare Mafia' (his words) before he got results at the Clare job.

Floki

To risk the ire of the beef brigade why don't yous take control of your own destiny and not be expecting someone else to do it for you.

I mean that on an individual basis maybe partly a collective basis. But expecting someone else to look after you and then bitch and moan when that someone else lets you down is not a good life decision.

There's always something we can change inside or outside the farm gate that we can control ourselves.

You or we are not helpless.

Be initiative not dependent.

I'm not telling yous to get out but I used to breed horses quite a few in fact and it came to a time when the costs of producing that foal were more than the sale price. I was extremely lucky with a few and we would consider ourselves good judges but it just came to a point when we were loosing money so we got out. Looking at the sales figures there's still people breeding foals and giving out about the sales price and loosing money.
I don't know why they do it.

CloughCasey1

Floki wrote: »

To risk the ire of the beef brigade why don't yous take control of your own destiny and not be expecting someone else to do it for you.

I mean that on an individual basis maybe partly a collective basis. But expecting someone else to look after you and then bitch and moan when that someone else lets you down is not a good life decision.

There's always something we can change inside or outside the farm gate that we can control ourselves.

You or we are not helpless.

Be initiative not dependent.

I'm not telling yous to get out but I used to breed horses quite a few in fact and it came to a time when the costs of producing that foal were more than the sale price. I was extremely lucky with a few and we would consider ourselves good judges but it just came to a point when we were loosing money so we got out. Looking at the sales figures there's still people breeding foals and giving out about the sales price and loosing money.
I don't know why they do it.

In a perfect world you are right. But when we are not taken seriously by our own organisation what leg have we to stand on?

rangler1

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

95% of businesses fail due to poor leadership and lack of management not poor employees. Micheal Donoghue captained Clarinbridge to a county title.......then he managed them to a county title and an all Ireland from nowhere. Now he has brought us to the holy grail last Sunday. This is not a coincidence. It is the top down approach that will make life better for the beef farmer. No matter how efficient us minions are, no matter how hard we individually moan, bitch, protest or fight we will not get results until we have the management in place (IFA) to lead us to the promised land. Why do I say IFA....because that's supposed to be their fcuking job.

Donghue wouldn't be much good if the players didn't bother their ar..s going out on the pitch.
We tried to disrupt slaughtering a couple of years ago but you'd nearly get knocked down on our road by lorries filling the lairage for the other days
What good was that, the price on the days without protest should've been the price demanded not more of the same weak selling.
No wonder processors didn't bother raising price

rangler1

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

In a perfect world you are right. But when we are not taken seriously by our own organisation what leg have we to stand on?

My God, you're doing it again
Did you know BSE stands for Blame Someone Else.
Real farmers are going milking cows now, it's not compulsory to stay feeding beef

charolais0153

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

In a perfect world you are right. But when we are not taken seriously by our own organisation what leg have we to stand on?

Have u ever gone to a protest lr done something productive rather than on i ternet complaing

CloughCasey1

rangler1 wrote: »

My God, you're doing it again
Did you know BSE stands for Blame Someone Else.
Real farmers are going milking cows now, it's not compulsory to stay feeding beef

My God. Will you ever get down from your high brown envelope laden horse. How the fcuk can you keep defending the indefensible??? You must have been well greased up during your days in the IFA. You sicken my hole with your holier than thou attitude.

CloughCasey1

charolais0153 wrote: »

Have u ever gone to a protest lr done something productive rather than on i ternet complaing

Hey now cuz...above anyone here you know well i hardly have time to piss as it is. ☺. I'm not complaining just stating the facts. I'm happy out making a few bob doing something I enjoy.

rangler1

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

My God. Will you ever get down from your high brown envelope laden horse. How the fcuk can you keep defending the indefensible??? You must have been well greased up during your days in the IFA. You sicken my hole with your holier than thou attitude.

Can you not cop on to the fact that there's gonna be no change in pricing structure while processors are getting all the cattle they want at their price, I'm telling you the way it is , I'm not defending anyone.
I often knowingly wasted my time going pleading processors to increase price and they'd drop the price before we got to the gate...you need a dose of the real world.
They're not like the government where you go ''lobbying'' and negotiate some sort of a scheme outa them...eventually.
I used to supply them cattle in the lean periods, december and May and get a good price, but they got around that with their own feedlots, one thing they won't get around is if farmers stop feeding beef, so go milk cows and get over yourself

cute geoge

The extra fr bred cattle in the system is the problem .
This price for beef will only get worse in coming years unless substantial more of these are exported as calves .
The ifa protesting outside factories is only a cod of a carry on ,what ifa need to do is market our calves over in netherlands and the other export destinations ,they then will need to probably subsidize boats to get as much as possible of these surplus calves out of the system.
Even then I still bet larry will come up with some brainwave to stop excessive calf exports but i think there is no other option

CloughCasey1

rangler1 wrote: »

Can you not cop on to the fact that there's gonna be no change in pricing structure while processors are getting all the cattle they want at their price, I'm telling you the way it is , I'm not defending anyone.
I often knowingly wasted my time going pleading processors to increase price and they'd drop the price before we got to the gate...you need a dose of the real world.
They're not like the government where you go ''lobbying'' and negotiate some sort of a scheme outa them...eventually.
I used to supply them cattle in the lean periods, december and May and get a good price, but they got around that with their own feedlots, one thing they won't get around is if farmers stop feeding beef, so go milk cows and get over yourself

The beef barons are one big cartell. They fix the price to suit themselves. They loosen the purse strings when numbers are tight and give a few cent more. They rise the price just before certain age brackets are due so lads put a push to go finishing and just before the majority of the cattle or finished or are due to go overage the whip 40c off the base price and cause a mad rush to sell. The competition authority are useless. We need more pressure from the top down to help beef farmers get a fair price for the top quality product that we produce. The IFA and bord bia are travelling the world trying to promote our grass fed beef but from what I can see they are glorified sales reps for the prossessors and not representing their members.

Willfarman

rangler1 wrote: »

Can you not cop on to the fact that there's gonna be no change in pricing structure while processors are getting all the cattle they want at their price, I'm telling you the way it is , I'm not defending anyone.
I often knowingly wasted my time going pleading processors to increase price and they'd drop the price before we got to the gate...you need a dose of the real world.
They're not like the government where you go ''lobbying'' and negotiate some sort of a scheme outa them...eventually.
I used to supply them cattle in the lean periods, december and May and get a good price, but they got around that with their own feedlots, one thing they won't get around is if farmers stop feeding beef, so go milk cows and get over yourself

Are you at pat smiths gate now pleading with him to settle 1 million rather than his promised 2 million. The creameries are the next crowd of ****ers to replace the beef barons.

Willfarman

https://amp.independent.ie/business/farming/agri-business/ifa-and-former-chief-pat-smith-may-avoid-court-35514847.html