beef price tracker

Base price

rangler1 wrote: »

Next Saturday, it'll be a big ask, 350 ewes for sale, 2.30 in TULLAMORE MART,
Thanks for giving the lead in to advertise it

If I was in the market for ewes/sheep I wouldn't miss the sale as you and your wife have an excellent reputation for quality breeding & stock.
Other than rearing a few pet lambs we haven't kept sheep in over 20 years due to too many problems with dog attacks.
Best of luck with the sale.

mf240

rangler1 wrote: »

I was always brought to meetings with politicians because of my PR skills, pity more farmers aren't capable of putting the boot in when there's an issue

You were only there because that's where the bus let you off.

rangler1

mf240 wrote: »

You were only there because that's where the bus let you off.

Ah no,had to bring the car cos either me or them'd walk out .....sure 'twas all part of it,

Mooooo

rangler1 wrote: »

Next Saturday, it'll be a big ask, 350 ewes for sale, 2.30 in TULLAMORE MART,
Thanks for giving the lead in to advertise it

Best of luck with sale and retirement

Base price

rangler1 wrote: »

Here's a fair question then, if these knowalls know so much about the inconsistencies in factories, why don't they follow it up.
I don't care what any report says, a friend used to claim that the paper in them was a bit hard for what he'd use them for.
Quoting Public service doesn't impress me as you know

Back on track
TBH we don't know about inconsistencies in any factory cause there are no figures published :mad:
IMO, MMI are the tail that wags the dog while we (farmers) sit on our arses patting its head.

FeelTheBern

valtra2 wrote: »

Will stick to the mart I think. 1760 925kg 9year old

Getting back to the beef tracker theme... I can't figure out how cow could be worth this much to someone for factory unless making about €3.80 a kilo? Or am I missing something

Cavanjack

As long as there are farmers to provide an oversupply of Cattle to the factories they will be in the driving seat. Not a whole lot we can do.
Anyway load going off this week @ €3.80 for steers.

Base price

FeelTheBern wrote: »

Getting back to the beef tracker theme... I can't figure out how cow could be worth this much to someone for factory unless making about €3.80 a kilo? Or am I missing something

Apologies for contributing to the thread going offside but the use (misuse for all that we know :eek:) of VIA's is like a thorn in my side.

Base price

Cavanjack wrote: »

As long as there are farmers to provide an oversupply of Cattle to the factories they will be in the driving seat. Not a whole lot we can do.
Anyway load going off this week @ €3.80 for steers.

So what do you suggest?

valtra2

FeelTheBern wrote: »

Getting back to the beef tracker theme... I can't figure out how cow could be worth this much to someone for factory unless making about €3.80 a kilo? Or am I missing something

It was bought by a agent. So I am happy and I am sure he is not losing out. Or maybe the agents are getting less than the farmers. Bahahahah

Never wrestle with pigs

FeelTheBern wrote: »

Getting back to the beef tracker theme... I can't figure out how cow could be worth this much to someone for factory unless making about €3.80 a kilo? Or am I missing something

Easy when it's going to France for around 3k plus the fifth quarter.

Bass Reeves

FeelTheBern wrote: »

Getting back to the beef tracker theme... I can't figure out how cow could be worth this much to someone for factory unless making about €3.80 a kilo? Or am I missing something

Unless she was a real tight cow. Real heavy cattle K/O 2-3% and maybe more than cattle that are 150kgs lighter. I would imagine that a good quality youngish contenintal cow over 900 kgs would kill up on 55%.

Cavanjack

Base price wrote: »

So what do you suggest?

I'm not suggesting anything. I'm only pointing out that 30k odd cattle a week is enough for the factories to keep a bit of competition between them. How we keep it to this I've no idea. More boats for finished cattle maybe or maybe the China thing will finally happen.

darragh_haven

Base price wrote: »

So what do you suggest?

The sucker herd needs to be halved, and all the part timers (like myself) need to feck off and concentrate on our day jobs. Most the land needs to be rented to the horny dairy farmer next door.
The majority of animals for the factory need to be off Jex cows and a carcass weight of 250kg to 275kg.

Ah shur I'm joking...... But

White Clover

The figure of 30k cattle per week has been bandied about for years as the tipping point, They tell us they have customers/markets for this amount of beef. Are the factories telling us that they have failed to increase their turnover/secure new markets over the years?
To answer my own question, they have secured new markets and double shaft farmers when the weekly kill goes over 30k. They are the lowest of the low and deliberately cut the price once cattle start to become fit after the summer and when the weather starts to turn. They know they have the farmer under pressure then and are not slow to put the boot in.

patsy_mccabe

White Clover wrote: »

The figure of 30k cattle per week has been bandied about for years as the tipping point, They tell us they have customers/markets for this amount of beef. Are the factories telling us that they have failed to increase their turnover/secure new markets over the years?
To answer my own question, they have secured new markets and double shaft farmers when the weekly kill goes over 30k. They are the lowest of the low and deliberately cut the price once cattle start to become fit after the summer and when the weather starts to turn. They know they have the farmer under pressure then and are not slow to put the boot in.

Playing devil's advocate here, but what do you expect? Beef is consumed 365 days of the year and supply has to match that. How can you expect the price not to drop when the supply increases. That's how every free market works. And remember prices go up aswell, just as much as they go down. Law of averages and all that.

gerryirl

White Clover wrote: »

The figure of 30k cattle per week has been bandied about for years as the tipping point, They tell us they have customers/markets for this amount of beef. Are the factories telling us that they have failed to increase their turnover/secure new markets over the years?
To answer my own question, they have secured new markets and double shaft farmers when the weekly kill goes over 30k. They are the lowest of the low and deliberately cut the price once cattle start to become fit after the summer and when the weather starts to turn. They know they have the farmer under pressure then and are not slow to put the boot in.

And another point you missed. This 30k kill a week is now full of O and P grade cattle. 2 of them put together wouldnt make one good bullock. Carcass are lot smaller. There will be thousands more coming on the market in the next 5 years to help the factories out. The Bord Bia grid system will suit them better as well.they wont have to worry about paying the extra 12 cent cause nothing will make the cut

Cavanjack

Any advance in €3.80 for steers? According to the journal factories are anxious for cattle.

darragh_haven

Cavanjack wrote: »

Any advance in €3.80 for steers? According to the journal factories are anxious for cattle.

I've only 20 left to go before housing in November. They'll be left here till the price gets back up 15 cent (hopefully 20).
If they are anxious for cattle, well see them pull the price 5 more cent next week and that will be the bottom of it. Price will rise again bit by bit.

White Clover

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Playing devil's advocate here, but what do you expect? Beef is consumed 365 days of the year and supply has to match that. How can you expect the price not to drop when the supply increases. That's how every free market works. And remember prices go up aswell, just as much as they go down. Law of averages and all that.

They're on the 30k for years. Have they not developed any new markets? They know how many cattle are there.
What you're saying is they are maintaining/entitled to hold their margin while at the same time putting farmers out of business???

Never wrestle with pigs

Cavanjack wrote: »

or maybe the China thing will finally happen.

Honestly that will only pay the factorys not the farmers. Sample loads of ribs have been put together for them already. They want a cheap piece of rib. Ribs cut about 20cm wide by 3 ribs. Normally put trough a mincer. It's only the factory's adding value to sh!t.

Bass Reeves

gerryirl wrote: »

And another point you missed. This 30k kill a week is now full of O and P grade cattle. 2 of them put together wouldnt make one good bullock. Carcass are lot smaller. There will be thousands more coming on the market in the next 5 years to help the factories out. The Bord Bia grid system will suit them better as well.they wont have to worry about paying the extra 12 cent cause nothing will make the cut

The highest priced market in the Europe for the last nearly 10 years is the UK market. They factory's love O grade cattle for that market. As one factory boss was quoted as saying O+/= cattle FS 3 are more than adequate for that market. For o+ cattle they pay 12c/l there is a 12c deduction off the base, 18c off O= and 24c and no QA bonus on O- cattle. That is why coming in from Christmas on they flat prices these cattle.

darragh_haven wrote: »

I've only 20 left to go before housing in November. They'll be left here till the price gets back up 15 cent (hopefully 20).
If they are anxious for cattle, well see them pull the price 5 more cent next week and that will be the bottom of it. Price will rise again bit by bit.

Yes prices will rise again but it will be November at leas 3.95/kg would be a good result at Christmas. They are getting plenty of cattle at the moment and it will not change for the next 6-8 weeks after taht it will depend on how fast 2016 cattle come on stream.

White Clover wrote: »

They're on the 30k for years. Have they not developed any new markets? They know how many cattle are there.
What you're saying is they are maintaining/entitled to hold their margin while at the same time putting farmers out of business???

Beef consumption dropped during the 90's it has stabilized. Too many farmers willing to have sucklers cows losing money.

patsy_mccabe

White Clover wrote: »

They're on the 30k for years. Have they not developed any new markets? They know how many cattle are there.
What you're saying is they are maintaining/entitled to hold their margin while at the same time putting farmers out of business???

Where did I say that? Look I'm as pissed off as anyone else. I've more cattle to sell this year than ever before. It's just this constant bitching and moaning that does my head in. I've listened to guys giving out about factories for over 40 years now. What's the point? What's stopping any of these guys from getting together and setting up their own factory? No - easier to be the hurler on the ditch.

tatoo

Cavanjack wrote: »

Any advance in €3.80 for steers? According to the journal factories are anxious for cattle.

I'm being quoted 3.75 ( kepak )

Bass Reeves

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Where did I say that? Look I'm as pissed off as anyone else. I've more cattle to sell this year than ever before. It's just this constant bitching and moaning that does my head in. I've listened to guys giving out about factories for over 40 years now. What's the point? What's stopping any of these guys from getting together and setting up their own factory? No - easier to be the hurler on the ditch.

While agree with the first part of your post it annoys me when lads throw the line ''What's stopping any of these guys from getting together and setting up their own factory?'' The reason for thsi is we are an exporting 90% of our beef. While setting up a niche market may be possible setting up a new factory would be impossible. Even the few smaller independent processors are going. Slaney gone to AIBP, Kildare as good as in the hands of Dawn, Kelly Meats now owned by Kepak.

There are so many different markets for different stock and different parts of an animal it would be impossible to set up a new processor. As well rendering is virtually in the hands of the big two so you will not get a competitive price for cattle rendering service. However our hands are tied behind our backs. Moaning is no good either.

However some lads will not help themselves. These are the same lads that spring after spring pay through the nose for 30-40 cattle or want to buy charley's that will kill 450kgs that these is a very limited market for.

Last night was having a pint and a lad was telling me about some nice black LM bullocks 440kgs that made 950/head in the mart. There was a fortune to be made in them he taught if carried to next year. My own opinion was that next year 1500-1550 would be the slaughter price no matter when you killed them or what you did with them if the market was the same as this year.

Now here the thing last week I killed two Fr bullocks sub 300kgs that came into 1035 euro. They were bought as year and a half stores last November 340ish kgs for 480 landed in the yard. 550 of a gross margin. The fancy LM had Mart fees and transport home so landed in the yard they be 970 euro and a gross margin of 550 again. Now the LM would be a nice fancy animal in front of the house but the Fr did the same job. They got about 28 euro of meal and silage and grass after that. Because they were light were cheap to carry and they only arrived in November. TBF to them they came in with compensatory growth, they went out of the shed with it and on ration they had it. There are six more that will take another 4-6 weeks but will kill heavier they should leave much the same. If I had bought them last September they would have made another 100 euro/head.

These are the cattle that fella turn there nose up at or carry to 40 months to kill another 3-400 euro more. I have heard one lad refer to them as ''V backs'' It is never wrong to take a profit. But going back to sh!te about setting up a factory to process your own cattle is rubbish. Or even going on about farmers markets like France and the UK. What we do need is competition in the form of more exports. We also need lads to stop paying 50-100 euro more for calves than they are worth and then blaming finishers or factory's if they lose money.

Finally we need to limit factory feedlots but it is not going to happen and we need producer group legislation but rangler and the IFA have there heart set against it. For some reason it is not in the interest of retired farmers.

Danzy

I had a small batch of Saler heifers, sent them off this week.

I'll put up their weight, grade and what they made but the ugly ducklings at puck money prices really opened my eyes, I was lucky, no doubt there but they had a decent shape when bought but they were great heifers.

When I look at what the White head heifers did and what they cost and what they left.

I think there are a lot of lads who have massive firepower, a life time of experience and savings, they like nice cattle and they are happy to roll the ball over.


All that matters is what they leave behind and what works for you, if that means killing earlier or in September/October so be it.

A lot of people are going to have to find their own spin on it though if it is to be worth their while.

rangler1

Bass Reeves wrote: »

While agree with the first part of your post it annoys me when lads throw the line ''What's stopping any of these guys from getting together and setting up their own factory?'' The reason for thsi is we are an exporting 90% of our beef. While setting up a niche market may be possible setting up a new factory would be impossible. Even the few smaller independent processors are going. Slaney gone to AIBP, Kildare as good as in the hands of Dawn, Kelly Meats now owned by Kepak.

There are so many different markets for different stock and different parts of an animal it would be impossible to set up a new processor. As well rendering is virtually in the hands of the big two so you will not get a competitive price for cattle rendering service. However our hands are tied behind our backs. Moaning is no good either.

However some lads will not help themselves. These are the same lads that spring after spring pay through the nose for 30-40 cattle or want to buy charley's that will kill 450kgs that these is a very limited market for.

Last night was having a pint and a lad was telling me about some nice black LM bullocks 440kgs that made 950/head in the mart. There was a fortune to be made in them he taught if carried to next year. My own opinion was that next year 1500-1550 would be the slaughter price no matter when you killed them or what you did with them if the market was the same as this year.

Now here the thing last week I killed two Fr bullocks sub 300kgs that came into 1035 euro. They were bought as year and a half stores last November 340ish kgs for 480 landed in the yard. 550 of a gross margin. The fancy LM had Mart fees and transport home so landed in the yard they be 970 euro and a gross margin of 550 again. Now the LM would be a nice fancy animal in front of the house but the Fr did the same job. They got about 28 euro of meal and silage and grass after that. Because they were light were cheap to carry and they only arrived in November. TBF to them they came in with compensatory growth, they went out of the shed with it and on ration they had it. There are six more that will take another 4-6 weeks but will kill heavier they should leave much the same. If I had bought them last September they would have made another 100 euro/head.

These are the cattle that fella turn there nose up at or carry to 40 months to kill another 3-400 euro more. I have heard one lad refer to them as ''V backs'' It is never wrong to take a profit. But going back to sh!te about setting up a factory to process your own cattle is rubbish. Or even going on about farmers markets like France and the UK. What we do need is competition in the form of more exports. We also need lads to stop paying 50-100 euro more for calves than they are worth and then blaming finishers or factory's if they lose money.

Finally we need to limit factory feedlots but it is not going to happen and we need producer group legislation but rangler and the IFA have there heart set against it. For some reason it is not in the interest of retired farmers.

Some BS there alright, we must be great people having a lamb produder group going since the sixties. legislation my ar.., get your finger out and do it for yourself.
Have a decent product and market it , it's not rocket science.

patsy_mccabe

I think Rangler is the only one living in the real world. Maybe you could explain Bass Reeves how the Producer Groups would work in practice. What exactly would they do and how would they negotiate with the factories? What would be their bargaining chip?
On a more serious note, what happens of sterling stays down the way it is? Who can produce beef at €3.70 and what will be the long term implications of this? High prices may cure high prices but will low prices cure low prices?

rangler1

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I think Rangler is the only one living in the real world. Maybe you could explain Bass Reeves how the Producer Groups would work in practice. What exactly would they do and how would they negotiate with the factories? What would be their bargaining chip?
On a more serious note, what happens of sterling stays down the way it is? Who can produce beef at €3.70 and what will be the long term implications of this? High prices may cure high prices but will low prices cure low prices?

When go into negotiation we highlight,
Consistency of the lambs, 80% lambs within spec, R3 or better and weight .....not really difficult as we get hammered on price for out of spec
QA,
Clean effeicient hauliers.....they never have to worry if there's an audit on the days we go
Working with factory on promotions

Bass Reeves

Two years ago because recognised the imbalance in the producer/processors relationship the EU Comission gave the greenlight to allow large sized producer groups to negotiate prices between farmers and processors. They are already been put in place in some countries example France. Normally such groups that could have a controlling influence on price would be considered anti competitive.

It is worth noting that as recently as early this year the EU commission again intervened in the meat market to insist that meat processors will have to publish there accounts even though technically they are unlimited companies. This was for two reasons they see an imbalance in the market and also several of the so called unlimited companies such as AIBP were in fact limited entities. AIBP operates out of the Isle of Man

To give you an idea below you can see some of the draft guidline that would have been allowed. These guideline would allow producer groups negotiate base prices, forward pricing etc but it would also have forced processors to negotiate national base prices. Take the situation where by the AA and HE schemes give a bonus but the base price is negotiated locally by the farmer. The AA bonus where they give a forward booking bonus but this open to widescale abuse where the base price is for such cattle at these time is reduced by 5-10 cent by the local procurement managers.


http://ec.europa.eu/competition/consultations/2015_cmo_regulation/draft_guidelines%20_en.pdf

Rangler are you telling me that the AA and HE cattle that the processors are not in spec, not only are they in spec but as even cattle that do not recieve the bonus are still sold to supermarkets for that scheme but the farmer is shafted. Rangler you are living in vacum in what happened 20 years ago. No processor will allow a beef producer group to negotiate a national base price at present. In reality they along with the IFA have lobbied against or for the legislation to be watered down by allowing some special producer groups to be set up.

I have followed this since it started it is hard to believe we are still 3 years down the road and still we do not have the legislation. So Rangler it is you who are BSing. Like the IFA you consider the suckler cow to be scarsconant when in reality the processors are creaming it on O grade cattle that provide up to 50% of the national kill. The EU price average hide the fact that Irish beef producers are are actually receiveing about10c/kg less than the actual published data suggest.

Patsy sterling is outside out control yes it has a huge influence at present but in reality it is only costing us 40% of the present price drop. But the real story is that UK beef prices have risen over the same period as the fall in sterling. From what I hear even though they have 3-4K extra cattle a week compared to June/July processosr cold rooms are not full as liked happened previously when the kill climbed for the autumn. It is easy to sell a cheap top class productr even though Rangler thinks that the processoors want only R grade cattle. Asd I have told him lots of time lamb is a totally different product. it is easy to have a set spec on Pigs, chicken and lamb as all are slaughtered sub 6 months.

We could produce such a product in Bulls but the demand is not really there. The UK supermarket requied steers and heifers from 280-340kgs but will take them up to 370ish or down to 250kgs.