Right-wing vs. Left-wing Clashes [MOD NOTE POST #1]

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Again, this is not correct. The extreme left is just as racist and sexist as the extreme right.

Absolutely not!
Look at the make-up of the two marches. The Nazis were almost entirely white men. The counter protesters were men and women of all backgrounds

The AntiFa movement is mostly anarchists and libertarian socialists. Egalitarianism is a founding principle of Anarchism.

Hans Bricks wrote: »

It's amazing that the hard left wing in America have now given these obese, gun toting neo nazi scumbags & redneck militias an arguably legitimate excuse outside of promoting outright fascism, to congregate in force for protests now. It doesn't strike me as coincidence that it's being ratcheted up in response to Trump's election either.

Look, the Nazis were having their march. This could have happened in either of two ways.
1. They have a march, they hold up their flaming torches shouting their nazi slogans, intimidating the local minority groups, all the while the police protect them and there are some peaceful protesters but they get to have their speeches calling for a new aryan nation

Do you think this would encourage or discourage the Nazi movement? They would have loved for it to happen this way, this would be their dream, that they could openly flaunt their Nazi ideology and nobody tried to stop them.

2. People tried to shut down their protest. They blockaded their route, prevented their speeches, intimidated the Nazis and brought attention on to who they are, got their faces all over the media, highlighted the fact that the President of the USA seems to sympathise with them, thereby revealing to the nation how much of a serious problem this has become and forcing their representatives to choose a side.

The fact that the nazis and 'alt right' will use the violence as some kind of propaganda victory ignores the fact that if the whole event was peaceful and they managed to hold their full rally, they would have called that a victory too.

The protesters are the people who remember that haunting passage from Martin Niemoller after WW2

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

The point is that everyone needs to stand up to these hate groups and prevent them from getting traction. These people want to take power. If they take power, then they will start with their political enemies, and when they are eliminated, there will be nobody left to stand up for the ordinary citizens.

By equivocating the socialists and anti-fascists with the nazis, you are saying that you're fine with Trump or some other fascist who gets into power cracking down on these anti fascists in dawn raids because they are 'violent thugs'

And when he's done that, he'll move on to the trade unionists if they protest or go on strike, and then social democrats will be targetted, and when they're gone, he'll move on to immigrants and minorities, and the opposition will be too weak to stop him, and then before you realise it, they'll be coming after everyone who isn't a Nazi.

All this for statues. Statues that have existed for decades & generations in Southern states and are there so long now that a lot of moderate southerners now view them as part of their "heritage". Don't get me wrong, taking them down from the likes of Baltimore and overtly African American districts is common sense. We can argue til we're blue in the face that it was all about slavery, a lot of other people would argue that it was originally a war of secession and state rights vs federal law and Big Brother up in the North East. Either way this whole thing is inevitably going to antagonize the extreme spectrum of white, christian America.

This whole thing has just devolved to a promotional platform served on a plate to Nazi Nazis and those other insufferable basement dwellers ANTIFA. I really think this whole sudden Confederate statue outrage has just been fuelled and overblown by bored, over sensitive left wing radicals who read too much VICE news. It's more a trendy cause du jour for 2017.

Symbolism is important, when the confederates are allowed to fly their confederate flags and nobody says anything because they have a right to do so, they have a really easy way to guage the strength of their movement. First it's one confederate flag outside someone's house, then the neighbour puts one up, then every house has one except the black family at the end of the road who are forced to move out because the environment has turned hostile, then the local council votes to put up a confederate flag outside the town hall...

So we have two choices, we could call to ban the symbols, which is not good for free speech, or we vote to use public space to display symbols of peace and harmony, and remove any symbolism that represents the ideology that the majority of people are opposed to.

These public monuments are now being removed by elected officials because the majority of the community have had been made aware of them and are disgusted by them.
While this happens, we should celebrate it. It means the Nazis and fascists are still politically weak. If it was the opposite, and if the councils were voting to commission new confederate monuments, then it would be a signal that very dark times are ahead.

Danzy wrote: »

Actually you are incorrect. I have met Antifa members in America and German, I haven't met too many Nazis, they tend to be rare at meetings or campaigns run by left wing movements.

Ok, so when you were talking to the AntiFa members (or more accurately members of autonomous groups associated with the antifa movement) did any of them ever express a political view that indicates that they want to take political power and impose their will on others?

Antifa are explicitly anti authoritarian. Their tactics are to use direct action to protest people and events that they view as fascist and white supremacist

Are they pacifists? No, the movement doesn't have any leadership, there is no committee that discusses tactics or which protests to attend. Antifa is a banner that us used by autonomous activist groups when their purpose is to directly challenge white supremacists and fascists.

The rise of the far right is making Antifa activism more prominent, but also more important.