Right-wing vs. Left-wing Clashes [MOD NOTE POST #1]

marcus001

20Cent wrote: »

Who's saying all trump supporters are nazi's?
No one.
Deflects from the rights nazi problem though.

How come they aren't weeding out the nazi's in their midst and disassociating themselves from them?

Like when all muslims are expected to defeat ISIS.

Akrasia is implying that people who "support" Trump do so for racial reasons.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=104415302#post104415302

marcus001

The_Valeyard wrote: »

The Tea Party movement?

The Tea Party is not the alt-right

wes

The_Valeyard wrote: »

The Tea Party movement?

The whole Birther thing that Trump wouldn't shut up about for nearly 8 years.

For Reals

red ears wrote: »

That is how Nazism progressed. How did the gulags progress? I think antifa are not good either. They appear to have a very authoritarian streak. I don't like where they may lead us too either. We need to keep an eye on the Nazi elements of the WN movement, the violent elements of BLM and the authoritarian elements of Anti-fa. Stop giving antifa a free pass.

Violence is wrong and should be punished. I don't see the 'free pass' angle.

Complaining about the ALT right Nazis is not giving the KKK a 'free pass'.

Violence is wrong.

Now people from all walks commit acts of violence. The Antifa commit acts of violence, the white supremacist ALT right commit acts of violence.

Now, white supremacists/ALT Right main goal is to put white people above all others. Their problem seems to be we are getting too much equality. They believe they are the masters and all other ethnic groups should bow down.

Violence is wrong and people on the far left sometimes commit acts of violence.
That okay?

marcus001 wrote: »

The Tea Party is not the alt-right

It was hijacked by and gave rise to the 'ALT-Right'.

Trump built his campaign on fooling people who felt hard done by and playing the racist right like puppets. He continues to do so.

marcus001

For Reals wrote: »

It was hijacked by and gave rise to the 'ALT-Right'.

Trump built his campaign on fooling people who felt hard done by and playing the racist right like puppets. He continues to do so.

Where are you getting this from?

The Tea Party was not hijacked by the alt-right. The alt-right is a completely different thing.

I think you're just making stuff up as you go along because you appear to have no understanding of what you're talking about.

Help!!!!

For Reals wrote: »

Now, white supremacists/ALT Right main goal is to put white people above all others. Their problem seems to be we are getting too much equality. They believe they are the masters and all other ethnic groups should bow down.

Violence is wrong and people on the far left sometimes commit acts of violence.
That okay?



It was hijacked by and gave rise to the 'ALT-Right'.

Trump built his campaign on fooling people who felt hard done by and playing the racist right like puppets. He continues to do so.

Who is we??

Help!!!!

Is it OK that there are groups taking enjoyment from burning the stars & stripes?
What would we in Ireland do if there were people burning the tri-colour?

For Reals

marcus001 wrote: »

Where are you getting this from?

The Tea Party was not hijacked by the alt-right. The alt-right is a completely different thing.

I think you're just making stuff up as you go along because you appear to have no understanding of what you're talking about.

The Tea Party was a movement born from within Republicanism, unhappy with the leadership for not being conservative and Republican enough, seeking smaller government, limiting government power was a big part of that. In short they didn't like the way things were run. This is the essence of the ALT-Right, it's in the 'ALT'. Trumps backroom boys seized upon this. Trump was best positioned to do so, being the outsider, not being a politician.
Tell me where I'm making stuff up?

Help!!!! wrote: »

Is it OK that there are groups taking enjoyment from burning the stars & stripes?
What would we in Ireland do if there were people burning the tri-colour?

Yes it is.
Depends on their reasoning I suppose.

Help!!!! wrote: »

Who is we??

You, me, them, everybody, everybody...

marcus001

For Reals wrote: »

The Tea Party was a movement born from within Republicanism, unhappy with the leadership for not being conservative and Republican enough, seeking smaller government, limiting government power was a big part of that. In short they didn't like the way things were run. This is the essence of the ALT-Right, it's in the 'ALT'. Trumps backroom boys seized upon this. Trump was best positioned to do so, being the outsider, not being a politician.
Tell me where I'm making stuff up?

Thanks for the confirmation that you don't know what you're talking about. The alt-right is characterised primarily by white identity politics and open advocacy for white interests. No matter how much you may think the Tea Party are racist or outside of the mainstream they're not underground like the alt-right is. Rand Paul is in the Tea Party. Paul Ryan was in the Tea Party. Donald Trump isn't even part of the alt-right. I don't think you appreciate just how out there their views are.

Help!!!!

For Reals wrote: »

The Tea Party was a movement born from within Republicanism, unhappy with the leadership for not being conservative and Republican enough, seeking smaller government, limiting government power was a big part of that. In short they didn't like the way things were run. This is the essence of the ALT-Right, it's in the 'ALT'. Trumps backroom boys seized upon this. Trump was best positioned to do so, being the outsider, not being a politician.
Tell me where I'm making stuff up?



Yes it is.
Depends on their reasoning I suppose.

The KKK were the military arm of the Democratic party now the party of African Americans. Ever wonder why African Americans are told to be the victim all the time? Slavery/white privilege etc? So they dont better themselves, live in ghettos, keep voting Democrat. Keep telling people they are victims & they will start believing it. There is a higher percentage of an African American being a distant relation of a slave owner than a white person. Why? Because a very small percentage of white people owned slaves but a larger percentage of the African American owned slaves

People died for that flag so no its not

The Legend Of Kira

From the New York times.

"" 
[font=nyt-cheltenham, georgia, "times new roman", times, serif]Were all of the counterprotesters nonviolent?[/font]
[font=georgia, "times new roman", times, serif]No. A complete picture of the violence that took place in Charlottesville is still unfolding, as those who were arrested face an array of charges and more photographs and videos emerge from the chaotic scenes. After a car barreled into a crowd of counterprotesters and killed a 32-year-old woman, the organizer of the “Unite the Right” rally, Jason Kessler, was heckled, punched and forced to flee a news conference by an angry crowd. ""[/font]

[font=georgia, "times new roman", times, serif]"" Groups that identify as anti-fascist — also known as antifa (pronounced an-TEE-fa) — have been physically confronting neo-Nazis, white supremacists and, in some cases, speakers who merely challenge the boundaries of political correctness on college campuses across the country. ""[/font]

[font=georgia, "times new roman", times, serif]"" In Charlottesville, about 20 members of a group called the Redneck Revolt, which describes itself as an anti-racist, anti-capitalist group dedicated to uniting working-class whites and oppressed minorities, carried rifles ""[/font]

[font=georgia, "times new roman", times, serif]If you turn up at a rally, any rally be it a right wing or a left wing rally with guns or rifles you re not a peaceful protester & you re looking for trouble, Trump is 100% correct to say on many sides.[/font]

[font=georgia, "times new roman", times, serif]https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/14/us/who-were-the-counterprotesters-in-charlottesville.html[/font]

Help!!!!

For Reals wrote: »

You, me, them, everybody, everybody...

OK so do you think its OK that if your white in America you get blamed for virtually everything?

White privilege? Explain that to a white person who is barely making ends meet
Feminism? Blames me especially white men for what they think is a rape culture, gender pay gap etc
Wars? Just because America had gone to war its the white mans fault when the majority of people have no say in it
Police killing black? When BLM start marching we hear the anti cop & anti white slogans being chanted. More white people per year get killed by police & blacks than black people getting killed by police & whites
Safe spaces? For everyone except whites especially not the straight white man
Which is reversed segregation
There are many other examples why white people feel they are being hard done by. You can talk about slavery but again there are many white people who's ancestors were not even in America at the time

The Legend Of Kira

Some new laws I think the authorities should pass to try better policy rallies vs counter rallies.

( 1 ) Anyone attending a public political rally in a real life gathering should be required by law to show their face, no face coverings , that goes for both sides.

( 2 ) Anyone seen to be carrying a gun or carrying any sort of weapon to a protest/rally should face Immediate arrest,this goes for both sides.

( 3 ) Protest vs counter protest at the same time in the same area, Police should keep both sides apart as best as they can.

Help!!!!

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

From the New York times.

"" 
[font=nyt-cheltenham, georgia, "times new roman", times, serif]Were all of the counterprotesters nonviolent?[/font]
[font=georgia, "times new roman", times, serif]No. A complete picture of the violence that took place in Charlottesville is still unfolding, as those who were arrested face an array of charges and more photographs and videos emerge from the chaotic scenes. After a car barreled into a crowd of counterprotesters and killed a 32-year-old woman, the organizer of the “Unite the Right” rally, Jason Kessler, was heckled, punched and forced to flee a news conference by an angry crowd. ""[/font]

[font=georgia, "times new roman", times, serif]"" Groups that identify as anti-fascist — also known as antifa (pronounced an-TEE-fa) — have been physically confronting neo-Nazis, white supremacists and, in some cases, speakers who merely challenge the boundaries of political correctness on college campuses across the country. ""[/font]

[font=georgia, "times new roman", times, serif]"" In Charlottesville, about 20 members of a group called the Redneck Revolt, which describes itself as an anti-racist, anti-capitalist group dedicated to uniting working-class whites and oppressed minorities, carried rifles ""[/font]

[font=georgia, "times new roman", times, serif]If you turn up at a rally, any rally be it a right wing or a left wing rally with guns or rifles you re not a peaceful protester & you re looking for trouble, Trump is 100% correct to say on many sides.[/font]

[font=georgia, "times new roman", times, serif]https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/14/us/who-were-the-counterprotesters-in-charlottesville.html[/font]

Wow maybe the media are finally going to report the truth. Thats the main reason theres been protests/marches because the MSM reporting only one side

pitifulgod

Help!!!! wrote: »

OK so do you think its OK that if your white in America you get blamed for virtually everything?

White privilege? Explain that to a white person who is barely making ends meet
Feminism? Blames me especially white men for what they think is a rape culture, gender pay gap etc
Wars? Just because America had gone to war its the white mans fault when the majority of people have no say in it
Police killing black? When BLM start marching we hear the anti cop & anti white slogans being chanted. More white people per year get killed by police & blacks than black people getting killed by police & whites
Safe spaces? For everyone except whites especially not the straight white man
Which is reversed segregation
There are many other examples why white people feel they are being hard done by. You can talk about slavery but again there are many white people who's ancestors were not even in America at the time

As a white straight male and not being a minority in any way, have not been subjected in any way to discrimination. I imagine this applies to you too. Meanwhile discrimination based on sexual orientation, race etc is an institutional problem.

Help!!!! wrote: »

Wow maybe the media are finally going to report the truth. Thats the main reason theres been protests/marches because the MSM reporting only one side

Have you accepted that it was a Neo Nazi rally yet?

Christy42

Help!!!! wrote: »

The KKK were the military arm of the Democratic party now the party of African Americans. Ever wonder why African Americans are told to be the victim all the time? Slavery/white privilege etc? So they dont better themselves, live in ghettos, keep voting Democrat. Keep telling people they are victims & they will start believing it. There is a higher percentage of an African American being a distant relation of a slave owner than a white person. Why? Because a very small percentage of white people owned slaves but a larger percentage of the African American owned slaves

People died for that flag so no its not

People died for the freedom of expression that includes being able to burn the flag.

The KKK were the military arm until the Republicans went on their southern strategy and they switched over. I have no idea what the relevance is though? Or what the existence of black slave owners in the past has to do with it? Are you suggesting black people don't face discrimination or what here?

Help!!!!

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

Some new laws I think the authorities should pass to try better policy rallies vs counter rallies.

( 1 ) Anyone attending a public political rally in a real life gathering should be required by law to show their face, no face coverings , that goes for both sides.

( 2 ) Anyone seen to be carrying a gun or carrying any sort of weapon to a protest/rally should face Immediate arrest,this goes for both sides.

( 3 ) Protest vs counter protest at the same time in the same area, Police should keep both sides apart as best as they can.

Happened at one protest all ready where antifa had to unmask
Flags only on bamboo sticks would help
Police have been told to stand down by mayors/politicians

Help!!!!

Christy42 wrote: »

People died for the freedom of expression that includes being able to burn the flag.

The KKK were the military arm until the Republicans went on their southern strategy and they switched over. I have no idea what the relevance is though? Or what the existence of black slave owners in the past has to do with it? Are you suggesting black people don't face discrimination or what here?

Black people dont face as much discrimination as others will make out. They are told its the fault of the white man that they live in ghettos/poor/get shot by police when the majority of white people have nothing to do with it. Was life better for black people under Obama?

Help!!!!

pitifulgod wrote: »

As a white straight male and not being a minority in any way, have not been subjected in any way to discrimination. I imagine this applies to you too. Meanwhile discrimination based on sexual orientation, race etc is an institutional problem.




Have you accepted that it was a Neo Nazi rally yet?

Oh right the old " only minorities can be discriminated against " argument. Well I've lived in London for many years & I have been racially abused by non whites

Alt right many different factions

For Reals

marcus001 wrote: »

Thanks for the confirmation that you don't know what you're talking about. The alt-right is characterised primarily by white identity politics and open advocacy for white interests. No matter how much you may think the Tea Party are racist or outside of the mainstream they're not underground like the alt-right is. Rand Paul is in the Tea Party. Paul Ryan was in the Tea Party. Donald Trump isn't even part of the alt-right. I don't think you appreciate just how out there their views are.

I never said the Tea Party was a racist group. Those disenchanted with the Republican movement like the ALT Right. I am not comparing like with like, I'm stating the ALT Right and Trump hijacked the Tea Party movement.
Where is the Tea Party now compared to several years ago? Where is the ALT-Right? A definite dynamic shift.
Trump is ALT-Right and so is every member of the GOP who sit silently watching, content it's not Hilary.

The Legend Of Kira

Opinion piece by the New York times.

http://nypost.com/2017/08/17/fighting-nazis-doesnt-make-antifa-the-good-guys/amp/

For Reals

Help!!!! wrote: »

OK so do you think its OK that if your white in America you get blamed for virtually everything?

Nice try.
It's the Trump Alt-Fascists blaming all their ills on minorities.

Help!!!! wrote: »

White privilege? Explain that to a white person who is barely making ends meet

I'm not a proponent of the term 'white privilege'.
However, I understand that things are generally harder for minorities.

Help!!!! wrote: »

Feminism? Blames me especially white men for what they think is a rape culture, gender pay gap etc
Wars? Just because America had gone to war its the white mans fault when the majority of people have no say in it
Police killing black? When BLM start marching we hear the anti cop & anti white slogans being chanted. More white people per year get killed by police & blacks than black people getting killed by police & whites
Safe spaces? For everyone except whites especially not the straight white man
Which is reversed segregation
There are many other examples why white people feel they are being hard done by. You can talk about slavery but again there are many white people who's ancestors were not even in America at the time

You seem to be having an argument of your own making here.
I don't feel any guilt for the slave trade. I understand why their descendants don't wish to view statues commemorating a war to keep it.
I would suggest all the gripes listed above do not excuse or explain white based terrorism.

20Cent

Help!!!! wrote: »

OK so do you think its OK that if your white in America you get blamed for virtually everything?

White privilege? Explain that to a white person who is barely making ends meet
Feminism? Blames me especially white men for what they think is a rape culture, gender pay gap etc
Wars? Just because America had gone to war its the white mans fault when the majority of people have no say in it
Police killing black? When BLM start marching we hear the anti cop & anti white slogans being chanted. More white people per year get killed by police & blacks than black people getting killed by police & whites
Safe spaces? For everyone except whites especially not the straight white man
Which is reversed segregation
There are many other examples why white people feel they are being hard done by. You can talk about slavery but again there are many white people who's ancestors were not even in America at the time

Can I ask the point of this post?
Does it someohow explain or excuse the nazi's?

20Cent

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

Opinion piece by the New York times.

http://nypost.com/2017/08/17/fighting-nazis-doesnt-make-antifa-the-good-guys/amp/

New York Post actually.
Big difference.

pitifulgod

Help!!!! wrote: »

Oh right the old " only minorities can be discriminated against " argument. Well I've lived in London for many years & I have been racially abused by non whites

Alt right many different factions

Nope, you're still misrepresenting the fact that it was most definitely a Neo Nazi rally... There's plenty of footage to back this up.

Random street abuse is not equivalent to an institutional issue. You're not going to be less likely to get a job etc. Institutional discrimination is well documented. This can mean everything from getting a lesser quality of education to job prospects being affected. There's a pretty good This American Life episode on it. A school district had a lower quality of education, the district was being merged into white area as result. A public meeting was called, the parents of the primarily white school claimed the new black students would be more violent and likely to drug deal. There was no issue of violence or drugs in the school. Tonnes of stereotypes came out. That's an example of an institutional problem.

Help!!!!

For Reals wrote: »

Nice try.
It's the Trump Alt-Fascists blaming all their ills on minorities.



I'm not a proponent of the term 'white privilege'.
However, I understand that things are generally harder for minorities.



You seem to be having an argument of your own making here.
I don't feel any guilt for the slave trade. I understand why their descendants don't wish to view statues commemorating a war to keep it.
I would suggest all the gripes listed above do not excuse or explain white based terrorism.

1: So its OK for BLM marching with there anti white slogans? MSM seem to think so. Racism is racism
2: Why is it that African & Asians do much better than African Americans?
3:There is no excuse for any type of terrorism nor am I trying to

I'm a firm believer in if you work hard you will over come anything. African Americans like to call other AA's coconuts, unkle toms, oreos if they start doing well or getting on with white people. The majority of African Americans problems are of their own making. They would be better off cleaning up their own neighbourhoods

For Reals

Race, like religion, is used as a vehicle for self interested parties to garner support from the less enlightened.

rossie1977

Help!!!! wrote: »

The KKK were the military arm of the Democratic party now the party of African Americans. Ever wonder why African Americans are told to be the victim all the time? Slavery/white privilege etc? So they dont better themselves, live in ghettos, keep voting Democrat. Keep telling people they are victims & they will start believing it. There is a higher percentage of an African American being a distant relation of a slave owner than a white person. Why? Because a very small percentage of white people owned slaves but a larger percentage of the African American owned slaves

People died for that flag so no its not

Republicans and Democrats switched platforms. The Republicans of the 1860s are the Democrats of today and vice versa https://www.livescience.com/34241-democratic-republican-parties-switch-platforms.html

Help!!!! wrote: »

Black people dont face as much discrimination as others will make out. They are told its the fault of the white man that they live in ghettos/poor/get shot by police when the majority of white people have nothing to do with it. Was life better for black people under Obama?

There are more black men currently in us prisons per capita than there was in South African prisons under apartheid so clearly there is an issue.

‎Philando Castile was stopped 52 times by police before being killed. Trevor Noah has said he has been stopped 8-10 times in the 5-6 years he has lived in the US, do you think he lives in a ghetto?

Help!!!!

20Cent wrote: »

Can I ask the point of this post?
Does it someohow explain or excuse the nazi's?

Again I am not excusing nazis or terrorists
I was merely trying to explain my take on being a white male in America

For Reals

Help!!!! wrote: »

1: So its OK for BLM marching with there anti white slogans? MSM seem to think so. Racism is racism
2: Why is it that African & Asians do much better than African Americans?
3:There is no excuse for any type of terrorism nor am I trying to

I'm a firm believer in if you work hard you will over come anything. African Americans like to call other AA's coconuts, unkle toms, oreos if they start doing well or getting on with white people. The majority of African Americans problems are of their own making. They would be better off cleaning up their own neighbourhoods

You're wrong.
Chris Rock put it well; "If you are a black C or D student you can get a job in McDonalds, maybe make manager one day. If you're a white C or D student you can become President of the United States" (George W. era)

...but whites need look to minorities to blame and that's okay?