Right-wing vs. Left-wing Clashes [MOD NOTE POST #1]

A Little Pony · 16-08-2017 04:10PM

wes wrote: »

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

You misinterpret what he said, he,s talking about Antifa wishing to silence anyone they disagree with, wishing to silence anyone they view as being right wing in any way shape or form, some people will very well get what,s talking about .

He used the term "alt left", so no misinterpretation. He chose to ape what Trump said. They do not exist:

'No such thing as the alt-left:' Donald Trump’s phrase for counter-protesters dismissed by extremism experts

Also, you misrepresent Antifa, they oppose fascism (an inherently good thing), and not as you claim anyone who is right wing. While, I disagree with there methods, your characterization of them is utter nonsense.

They only beat the hell out of anyone who disagrees, even normal conservatives and try to shut down public debates like the losers they are. Antifa can take a hike, thugs.

wes · 16-08-2017 04:16PM

For Reals wrote: »

The less well off or poor and disenfranchised are the puppets. It's the 'thinkers', of the privileged far right that stir these things up. All comes back to wealth and power.

Yeah, forgot about those who create the ideology, who share the lions share of the fault.

I have to remind myself to be careful not to demonize entire communities of white people, due to the Nazi/Racists, like we have seen with people from the Middle East etc. There are plenty of people who comes from communities blighted with these racists, who can be allies against them.

Christy42 · 16-08-2017 04:18PM

marcus001 wrote: »

No people march under a Nazi flag if they're Nazi's. Its not just the alt right that wants to retain the monuments. Normal people, particularly military families do too. If anything the alt right loves that they're trying to take them down because it gives them a cause to support that doesn't involve persecuting minorities.

Uh huh. When some of those come forward we can have a conversation about that. Till then we just have our nazi/KKK march. And no, there were no fine people in that march. Fine people would have seen what was going on and gone home.

This was launched as an extremist event from start to finish. No normal people involved. I reckon most families are more worried about the amount of neo nazis and white supremacists out than the statue.

wes · 16-08-2017 04:18PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

They only beat the hell out of anyone who disagrees, even normal conservatives and try to shut down public debates like the losers they are. Antifa can take a hike, thugs.

They target fascist groups. I see people like you describe fascists/racists and normal conservatives doesn't make it so.

Again, disagree with there methods, but there cause is a just one. The other guys not so much.

Brian? · 16-08-2017 04:19PM

Palmach wrote: »

Many people throughout history owned and traded slaves. If you take down all their statues you'll have a lot of empty plinths. This is the left trying to extinguish history for their own political ends.

Hold on. It's not "the left" trying to do anything. Let alone "extinguish" history. FYI, extinguish makes no sense here, it's not on fire.

If people want to put up statues, they should be free to do so. If the local populace, the people who have to look at them every day, decide they should be taken down then down they come. It's really that simple.

The violence was because a group of neo Nazis decided the statue should stay up. That's it. No more complicated than that.

It's that simple. Do the people who live in a given town want the statue? Yes or no. Simple.

Brian? · 16-08-2017 04:21PM

marcus001 wrote: »

Right but supremacism and nationalism are two different ideologies.

Explain the difference please. I can't see any difference whatsoever.

The Legend Of Kira · 16-08-2017 04:27PM

Brian? wrote: »

Palmach wrote: »

Many people throughout history owned and traded slaves. If you take down all their statues you'll have a lot of empty plinths. This is the left trying to extinguish history for their own political ends.

Hold on. It's not "the left" trying to do anything. Let alone "extinguish" history. FYI, extinguish makes no sense here, it's not on fire.

If people want to put up statues, they should be free to do so. If the local populace, the people who have to look at them every day, decide they should be taken down then down they come. It's really that simple.

The violence was because a group of neo Nazis decided the statue should stay up. That's it. No more complicated than that.

It's that simple. Do the people who live in a given town want the statue? Yes or no. Simple.

+ 1- as I argued in a post on this thread yesterday evening it coulda been easier if the issue was put to a local referendum/direct democracy & let people vote on it .

The Legend Of Kira · 16-08-2017 04:32PM

wes wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

They only beat the hell out of anyone who disagrees, even normal conservatives and try to shut down public debates like the losers they are. Antifa can take a hike, thugs.

They target fascist groups. I see people like you describe fascists/racists and normal conservatives doesn't make it so.

Again, disagree with there methods, but there cause is a just one. The other guys not so much.

The Milo event in Berkeley was targeted by Antifa a few months ago, Milo isn,t a fascist, Ann Coulter death threats by Antifa once again Ann Coulter isn,t a fascist, Andrew Bolt a host of a political debate show was attacked in the street going about his business by Antifa, once again Andrew Bolt isn,t a fascist .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anUyzZzz4Q0

Saruhashi · 16-08-2017 04:32PM

wes wrote: »

They target fascist groups. I see people like you describe fascists/racists and normal conservatives doesn't make it so.

Again, disagree with there methods, but there cause is a just one. The other guys not so much.

I think people are confused and think that the rally at the weekend was not necessarily a far right rally.

To be clear, the rally at the weekend was absolutely an extreme right wing rally. So much so that many prominent figures on the right refused to be associated with it because of who was going to be there.

I wish that protest groups had stayed away though. These Neo-Nazi clowns made absolute idiots of themselves with their stupid torches and "blood and soil" chants and they would have been the subject of ridicule for weeks if the events had not taken a more serious turn.

wes · 16-08-2017 04:39PM

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

The Milo event in Berkeley was targeted by Antifa a few months ago, Milo isn,t a fascist,

The nasty racist twitter harassment campaign against actress Leslie Jones says otherwise, also was that the one where one of Milo's supporters shot someone?

Shooting victim at Milo Yiannopoulos event wants 'dialogue' not charges

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

Ann Coulter death threats by Antifa once again Ann Coulter isn,t a fascist,

Which organization made this threat? Also, have you read her stuff........ Calling her a normal conservative is a stretch, she is definitely far right.

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

Andrew Bolt a host of a political debate show was attacked in the street going about his business by Antifa, once again Andrew Bolt isn,t a fascist .

Never heard of him, and what group did this? Going to guess he is at least far right.

**EDIT**
ok found a link, I see no mention of anti-fa at all:

Andrew Bolt says he 'wasn't going to be humiliated' during unprovoked attack

Andrew Bolt fights back after glitter and shaving cream attack

I see no mention of anyone being link to an Anti-fa group in regards to that attack.

wes · 16-08-2017 04:42PM

Saruhashi wrote: »

I think people are confused and think that the rally at the weekend was not necessarily a far right rally.

To be clear, the rally at the weekend was absolutely an extreme right wing rally. So much so that many prominent figures on the right refused to be associated with it because of who was going to be there.

I wish that protest groups had stayed away though. These Neo-Nazi clowns made absolute idiots of themselves with their stupid torches and "blood and soil" chants and they would have been the subject of ridicule for weeks if the events had not taken a more serious turn.

Sadly, just leaving them alone hasn't worked either. There have been various far right terror attacks since Trumps election. There not going to go away if there ignored sadly.

The Legend Of Kira · 16-08-2017 04:42PM

Saruhashi wrote: »

wes wrote: »

They target fascist groups. I see people like you describe fascists/racists and normal conservatives doesn't make it so.

Again, disagree with there methods, but there cause is a just one. The other guys not so much.

I think people are confused and think that the rally at the weekend was not necessarily a far right rally.

To be clear, the rally at the weekend was absolutely an extreme right wing rally. So much so that many prominent figures on the right refused to be associated with it because of who was going to be there.

I wish that protest groups had stayed away though. These Neo-Nazi clowns made absolute idiots of themselves with their stupid torches and "blood and soil" chants and they would have been the subject of ridicule for weeks if the events had not taken a more serious turn.

"" I think people are confused and think that the rally at the weekend was not necessarily a far right rally. ""

I fully acknowledge the rally was an extreme right rally judging by their chants + display of banners etc, when extreme left wing groups constantly attack Trump supporters in general, target people like Ann Coulter who aren,t fascist, then such extreme left groups are gonna be viewed + Interpreted by people as being against anyone who has or expresses any right wing views.

ancapailldorcha · 16-08-2017 04:45PM

Mod: Post deleted. No more comedy links please.

DeadHand · 16-08-2017 04:46PM

wes wrote: »

you misrepresent Antifa, they oppose fascism (an inherently good thing), and not as you claim anyone who is right wing. While, I disagree with there methods, your characterization of them is utter nonsense.

The trouble being they brand anyone with views they find unpalatable as facist and proceed to beat the tar out of them. Their threshold is dangerously low when you see them assault the ordinary supporters of right wing figures. Trump isn't a facist nor are the vast bulk of his supporters. Milo isn't a facist, those who turn up to his talks don't deserve to get attacked. Both sets of people have been victims of Antifa street thuggery.

They shouldn't get to decide who is a facist, who is allowed to have an opinion and they definitely shouldn't get to enforce their decision by violence.

Hell, even if people are fascists they have no right to attack them physically. But the fact is genuine fascists are vanishingly rare in the modern USA. Antifa confront few genuine fascists and are far more likely to be found bullying, harassing and battering ordinary people who happen to fall on the Right side of the political spectrum.

They are a violent, authoritarian, anti-democratic, anti-American collection of scumbags that should be utterly dismantled by the authorities. And the same goes for their counterparts on the Right.

wes · 16-08-2017 04:48PM

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

target people like Ann Coulter who aren,t fascist

Here are examples of racism from Ann Coulter:

Only Ann Coulter could make this dumb airline dispute racist

Ann Coulter’s Anti-Semitism Runs Deeper Than You Know

jmayo · 16-08-2017 04:53PM

VinLieger wrote: »

I'd be curious to know what the Kochs are thinking now that their monster has broken its leash

They probably don't give two fooks so long as their bottom line is maintained and getting the people on both sides to have at it each other probably suits their ultimate aim.

The more civil disturbance there are, the more authoritarian the state and security services can be allowed become.

Thinking back on earlier posts, I actually find it somewhat ironic how Air Chief Marshall "bomber" Harris, the one man who probably is responsible for putting more nazis in the ground than anyone else mentioned here, was referenced early in this thread as being akin to Lee (and thus someone not to be lauded) by the very ones shouting loudly about the evil of nazis and racists. :rolleyes:

wes · 16-08-2017 04:58PM

DeadHand wrote: »

The trouble being they brand anyone with views they find unpalatable as facist and proceed to beat the tar out of them. Their threshold is dangerously low when you see them assault the ordinary supporters of right wing figures. Trump isn't a facist nor are the vast bulk of his supporters. Milo isn't a facist, those who turn up to his talks don't deserve to get attacked. Both sets of people have been victims of Antifa street thuggery.

Again I refer to the fact that Milo was kicked off twitter (where the like of David Duke are still there), after leading hate campaign against actress Leslie Johns, and it was one of his supporters who shot someone. Using Milo as an example is very poor. He is no angel by any stretch.

DeadHand wrote: »

They shouldn't get to decide who is a facist, who is allowed to have an opinion and they definitely shouldn't get to enforce their decision by violence.

If your waving a Nazi flag, and hanging out with Nazi's and call yourself Alt-Right, its a pretty simple conclusion.

DeadHand wrote: »

Hell, even if people are fascists they have no right to attack them physically. But the fact is genuine fascists are vanishingly rare in the modern USA.

I disagree with there methods as I said earlier, and also the far right are growing faster than ISIS on social media:

White nationalist movement growing much faster than Isis on Twitter, study finds

DeadHand wrote: »

Antifa confront few genuine fascists and are far more likely to be found bullying, harassing and battering ordinary people who happen to fall on the Right side of the political spectrum.

They are a violent, authoritarian, anti-democratic, anti-American collection of scumbags that should be utterly dismantled by the authorities. And the same goes for their counterparts on the Right.

Well there counterparts on the right are in the White house, and have been given free reign by the white house:

Exclusive: Trump to focus counter-extremism program solely on Islam - sources

Also, there is the fact that it was the Nazi's who murdered peaceful protesters, and not Anti-fa, and it is white supremacists who are increasingly engaged in terror attacks and not anti-fa, sorry but whataboutism is pretty uselessa this point.

The 2 sides are not the same. One want to wipe our all non-white people and any white person who disagrees with them. The only real comparison for Nazi's is ISIS.

**EDIT**
Here is some example of what I am talking about:
Sikh temple massacre gunman was 'white supremacist' Wade Michael Page

Dylann Roof sentenced to death for the murders of nine black church members

Portland attack: Man slits throats of would-be heroes who stepped in to stop Islamophobic abuse on MAX train

Kansas bar 'racist' shooting: Man who tried to save Indian victims says 'We're all humans'

There is no comparison between Nazi's and Antifa. The only comparison would be between Nazi's and ISIS.

wes · 16-08-2017 05:07PM

Russia once again enabling Nazi's:

Shunned by GoDaddy and Google, racist Daily Stormer moves to Russian domain

How many Russians did Nazi's kill? Astonishing that there helping these monsters.

The Legend Of Kira · 16-08-2017 05:10PM

wes wrote: »

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

The Milo event in Berkeley was targeted by Antifa a few months ago, Milo isn,t a fascist,

The nasty racist twitter harassment campaign against actress Leslie Jones says otherwise, also was that the one where one of Milo's supporters shot someone?

Shooting victim at Milo Yiannopoulos event wants 'dialogue' not charges

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

Ann Coulter death threats by Antifa once again Ann Coulter isn,t a fascist,

Which organization made this threat? Also, have you read her stuff........ Calling her a normal conservative is a stretch, she is definitely far right.

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

Andrew Bolt a host of a political debate show was attacked in the street going about his business by Antifa, once again Andrew Bolt isn,t a fascist .

Never heard of him, and what group did this? Going to guess he is at least far right.

**EDIT**
ok found a link, I see no mention of anti-fa at all:

Andrew Bolt says he 'wasn't going to be humiliated' during unprovoked attack

Andrew Bolt fights back after glitter and shaving cream attack

I see no mention of anyone being link to an Anti-fa group in regards to that attack.

"" Which organization made this threat? Also, have you read her stuff........ Calling her a normal conservative is a stretch, she is definitely far right.""

It was Antifa organisations made such threats which in turn Berkeley canceled her talk due to safely concerns due to such threats.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/christinerousselle/2017/04/26/ann-coulter-cancels-berkeley-speech-n2318634

I read some of her stuff & watched her on fox a few times, I mightn,t agree with everything she says, but I wouldn,t label her as " fascist ".

"" Never heard of him, and what group did this? Going to guess he is at least far right. ""

There you go,that attitude is part of the problem a fellow you say you never heard of & you say "" Going to guess he is at least far right. ""

Shortly afterwards a local Antifa group posted the following after the attack on Andre Bolt.

[font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]"" Some of our family in solidarity were attacked by Andrew Bolt while they were protesting today. Why he isn't in prison for his horrendous, violent language yet is beyond me ""[/font]

[font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]

[/font]

[font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]They describe people who attacked him as family & call assaulting someone as a form of protest .[/font]

Wildlife Actor · 16-08-2017 05:11PM

VinLieger wrote: »

I'd be curious to know what the Kochs are thinking now that their monster has broken its leash

Probably delighted that they're going to get Pence into position earlier than expected.

On a separate note, why are we talking about antifa in the context of Charlottesville?

Sure they were present but clashes between demonstrators are (sadly) almost normal in US by now.

What elevates last weekend's events is two factors: the unashamed use of (literally) nazi paraphernalia, chants etc and the deliberate killing and attempted killing of peaceful non antifa protesters by an untheatened man in a car.

Antifa has nothing to do with either if these factors so discussing them is pure whataboutery and deflection.

Does antifa's carry on justify the chants, the banners, the poster (which didn't even mention the statue)? Did they justify the running down? The show of arms might be traced to antifa. Neither of the main horrors can.

Palmach · 16-08-2017 05:14PM

wes wrote: »

Again I refer to the fact that Milo was kicked off twitter (where the like of David Duke are still there), after leading hate campaign against actress Leslie Johns, and it was one of his supporters who shot someone. Using Milo as an example is very poor. He is no angel by any stretch.

Except hen didn't lead a hate campaign and was falsely kicked off.

The 2 sides are not the same. One want to wipe our all non-white people and any white person who disagrees with them. The only real comparison for Nazi's is ISIS.

There is no comparison between Nazi's and Antifa. The only comparison would be between Nazi's and ISIS.

The two groups have different ideologies but similar methodologies. So two sides of the same coin.

wes · 16-08-2017 05:16PM

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

It was Antifa organisations made such threats which in turn Berkeley canceled her talk due to safely concerns due to such threats.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/christinerousselle/2017/04/26/ann-coulter-cancels-berkeley-speech-n2318634

No mention of anti-fa in that article....... I didn't dispute the threats, just that it came from an anti-fascist group.

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

I read some of her stuff & watched her on fox a few times, I mightn,t agree with everything she says, but I wouldn,t label her as " fascist ".

Racist and very much far right. Her plane tirade was hilarious.

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

There you go,that attitude is part of the problem a fellow you say you never heard of & you say "" Going to guess he is at least far right. ""

Well, seeing as your the one talking about him, its not an unfair guess, and as I said its a guess. Don't know the guy.

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

Shortly afterwards a local Antifa group posted the following after the attack on Andre Bolt.

[font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]"" Some of our family in solidarity were attacked by Andrew Bolt while they were protesting today. Why he isn't in prison for his horrendous, violent language yet is beyond me ""[/font]

[font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][/font]

[font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]They describe people who attacked him as family & call assaulting someone as a form of protest .[/font]

Sure, so we have one guy beaten up for no good reason (an awful crime and I hope those who did it are caught), versus multiple Nazi/white supremacist terror attacks. Again,there is no comparison to be made between the 2.

**EDIT**
Looks like are back to not knowing who the attackers were per later posts......
**END EDIT**

jackofalltrades · 16-08-2017 05:17PM

wes wrote: »

Here are examples of racism from Ann Coulter:

Only Ann Coulter could make this dumb airline dispute racist

Ann Coulter’s Anti-Semitism Runs Deeper Than You Know

Being racist or far-right doesn't mean you are a fascist.

wes · 16-08-2017 05:19PM

Palmach wrote: »

Except hen didn't lead a hate campaign and was falsely kicked off.

Going to trust twitter on that. He deserved to be kicked off. The man is a nasty piece of work, and the apologetics for him are just silly.

Palmach wrote: »

The two groups have different ideologies but similar methodologies. So two sides of the same coin.

No, one has killed multiple people in terror attacks, the other hasn't the comparison, is just apologetics for Nazi's and nothing more.

wes · 16-08-2017 05:20PM

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Being racist or far-right doesn't mean you are a fascist.

No, but we have yet to establish that death threats were made by Anti-fa either. Its just being assumed.

Even if they did make those threats, the far right/Nazi's have killed people in multiple terror attacks, and regularly engage and harassment and hate campaigns against Women featuring death and rape threats.

One of the more recent notable harassment campaigns was caused by a Marvel comics editors, taking a picture of herself and some co-workers taking a selfie getting some milk shakes.

The comparison is apologetics nonsense and nothing more.

Palmach · 16-08-2017 05:21PM

wes wrote: »

No, one has killed multiple people in terror attacks, the other hasn't the comparison, is just apologetics for Nazi's and nothing more.

Not yet. Did you see what happend in Hamburg? It is a question of time.

VinLieger · 16-08-2017 05:23PM

Palmach wrote: »

The two groups have different ideologies but similar methodologies. So two sides of the same coin.

One is based off disagreeing about political beliefs and being against fascism, while their methods are flawed their goal is understandable.

The other is based off hating everyone of a specific skin colour, religion or birthplace. They have literally called for the death or internment of all members of these groups.

Their ideologies are in no way similar.

Palmach · 16-08-2017 05:26PM

VinLieger wrote: »

One is based off disagreeing about political beliefs and being against fascism, while their methods are flawed their goal is understandable.

The other is based off hating everyone of a specific skin colour, religion or birthplace. They have literally called for the death or internment of all members of these groups.

Their ideologies are in no way similar.

That is what I said if you had read my post. Whether a person is beating lard out of you is a fascist or antifa is small consolation for getting the lard kicked out of you. The fact that antifa have supposedly altruistic beliefs is no excuse for their wanton thuggery and brutality. In terms of methodology they are fascists.

wes · 16-08-2017 05:26PM

Palmach wrote: »

Not yet. Did you see what happend in Hamburg? It is a question of time.

So basically, no comparison to be made then. Again, this whataboutism is tiresome.

Again, Nazi's murdered someone in a terror attack. They beat another man to a bloody pulp. Screaming antifa is just a sad excuse for Nazi terrorism.

Akrasia · 16-08-2017 05:27PM

wes wrote: »

Again I refer to the fact that Milo was kicked off twitter (where the like of David Duke are still there), after leading hate campaign against actress Leslie Johns, and it was one of his supporters who shot someone. Using Milo as an example is very poor. He is no angel by any stretch.

If your waving a Nazi flag, and hanging out with Nazi's and call yourself Alt-Right, its a pretty simple conclusion.

I disagree with there methods as I said earlier, and also the far right are growing faster than ISIS on social media:

White nationalist movement growing much faster than Isis on Twitter, study finds

Well there counterparts on the right are in the White house, and have been given free reign by the white house:

Exclusive: Trump to focus counter-extremism program solely on Islam - sources

Also, there is the fact that it was the Nazi's who murdered peaceful protesters, and not Anti-fa, and it is white supremacists who are increasingly engaged in terror attacks and not anti-fa, sorry but whataboutism is pretty uselessa this point.

The 2 sides are not the same. One want to wipe our all non-white people and any white person who disagrees with them. The only real comparison for Nazi's is ISIS.

**EDIT**
Here is some example of what I am talking about:
Sikh temple massacre gunman was 'white supremacist' Wade Michael Page

Dylann Roof sentenced to death for the murders of nine black church members

Portland attack: Man slits throats of would-be heroes who stepped in to stop Islamophobic abuse on MAX train

Kansas bar 'racist' shooting: Man who tried to save Indian victims says 'We're all humans'

There is no comparison between Nazi's and Antifa. The only comparison would be between Nazi's and ISIS.

Anti-Fa is a movement that is a hundred years old. It started with opposing fascism as it rose to dominate Europe in the post ww1 era. The fundamental basis for Anti-Fa is that by the time the average person realises that their state is slipping into fascism, it's already too late. The only way to fight fascism is to organise and use direct action to oppose them before they gain traction, to stop them from having any illusion of respectability, to deny them the platform to spread their hate.

People talk about free speech, When fascists have free speech, they use it to take power and then shut down free speech for everyone but themselves.

There are more than enough historical examples of this happening for it to be in any doubt.

These fascists are prepared to fight, but what they really want is a show of force. They want to be able to hold large rallies, deliver their speeches while the police and the state step aside and watch on, protecting their 'freedom of speech' as they call the take-over of the state and the subjugation of everyone who doesn't fit their ethnic profile.

Right-wing vs. Left-wing Clashes [MOD NOTE POST #1]

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