Right-wing vs. Left-wing Clashes [MOD NOTE POST #1]

wes

Help!!!! wrote: »

So why are they now classed as domestic terrorists in New Jersey?

In New Jersey? Thats it? New Jersey............

How many people have died in Antifa terror attacks?

Again, Nazi's killed someone, and all you can do is talk about Antifa. The apologetics is getting sad at this point. This kind nonsense about both side being as bad as one another, when objectively one is far far worse has gotten out of hand.

For Reals

mynamejeff wrote: »

your ignoring my point and actually helping me proving it.

there was no debate allowed is the point and anyone who tried to have one was shouted down


and im equating that to the viscous conflicts that are arising in america .

thats not politics its just thuggery on both sides

Actually the only comparison is some folks wanted equality for Gay couples and others didn't.
Some wanted equality for all and some didn't.
Personally I can't conceive of an argument or discussion that would make me want to keep sections of society down based on hate. We all are well aware of how hateful institutions fearful of equality can be.
'thuggery on both sides' in WW2 also, what's your point here?

Help!!!!

For Reals wrote: »

You're not far off the mark.
People have more access to information than ever before. Therefore they have access to all points of view and would form their own from that.
So obviously we see a rise in fear, a backlash from the vested interests reliant on the status quo to remain as is or roll back.
The last move in that regard would be to dispute or dismiss news as 'Fake' and excuse far right racists as a result of too much equality.
It would be laughably transparent if not happening in front of our very eyes.

No one not even Trump excused the far right racists. He condemned all sides because there was violence from both sides. Although legally the far right racists were in the right because they had a permit to be there.

Tony EH

mynamejeff wrote: »

no there wasn't

in reality anyone that didn't agree with the protest groups were shouted down

thats really what happened

celebrating the successes doesn't negate the tactics used to achieve them

That's absolute bollocks.

The were endless radio and TV debates/shows etc re: Irish Water and Gay Marriage.

However, there weren't any running battles in the streets between supporters of Irish Water or those against it, nor was there any public confrontations between those for or against gay marriage.

It's not even in the same ballpark. It's not even the same game FFS.

wes

Help!!!! wrote: »

No one not even Trump excused the far right racists.

Yes, he did, by drawing a false equivalence, one side engaged in terrorism and the other didn't and also calling Nazi's fine people. Explain how there fine people, please.

Help!!!! wrote: »

He condemned all sides because there was violence from both sides.

One side engaged in terrorism and the other didn't. No comparison.

Help!!!! wrote: »

Although legally the far right racists were in the right because they had a permit to be there.

Terrorism isn't legal .

For Reals

Help!!!! wrote: »

No one not even Trump excused the far right racists. He condemned all sides because there was violence from both sides. Although legally the far right racists were in the right because they had a permit to be there.

Condemning all sides equally was supporting the Nazi/white supremacists by putting them on par with people protesting against hate/fascism.

Seriously, if it went off peacefully we'd have racists on one side and those for equality on the other. Just folks on the same moral level out for a stroll?
Citing Trump as a voice of reason is shameful.

The Legend Of Kira

We all heard about the fellow that was fired from google recently , there were planned ( March on google ) protests this weekend that have now being called off for the moment due to left wing threats.

[font=Georgia, Times, sans-serif]The "March on Google" protest scheduled to take place in multiple cities across the US this weekend has been cancelled.[/font]

[font=Georgia, Times, sans-serif]In a statement on its official website, organisers claimed they had received "credible" terrorist threats from what they described as "known Alt Left terrorist groups," and were cancelling the march due to concerns "for the safety of our citizen participants

http://uk.businessinsider.com/march-on-google-protest-cancelled-alleged-alt-left-terror-threats-2017-8?r=US&IR=T[/font]

Help!!!!

wes wrote: »

In New Jersey? Thats it? New Jersey............

How many people have died in Antifa terror attacks?

Again, Nazi's killed someone, and all you can do is talk about Antifa. The apologetics is getting sad at this point. This kind nonsense about both side being as bad as one another, when objectively one is far far worse has gotten out of hand.

A man who had mental health problems & an unhealthy appetite for Nazi ran down the people & he will get jail.
Antifa on the other hand are lucky they haven't killed anyone, throwing homemade bombs of M80 grenades in glass bottles.
Antifa started the violence when they started attacking Trump supporters going to his rallies to spare me the "antifa are the good guys" speech

Help!!!!

wes wrote: »

Yes, he did, by drawing a false equivalence, one side engaged in terrorism and the other didn't and also calling Nazi's fine people. Explain how there fine people, please.



One side engaged in terrorism and the other didn't. No comparison.



Terrorism isn't legal .

He didn't say Nazi's were fine people. He said there were fine people on both sides. You do realise it was a unite the right march? Not all there were nazi/kkk etc
One guy committed a so called terrorist attack. I bet when its a Muslim you start shouted " its not all Muslims "

mynamejeff

For Reals wrote: »

Actually the only comparison is some folks wanted equality for Gay couples and others didn't.
Some wanted equality for all and some didn't.
Personally I can't conceive of an argument or discussion that would make me want to keep sections of society down based on hate. We all are well aware of how hateful institutions fearful of equality can be.
'thuggery on both sides' in WW2 also, what's your point here?

again your missing my point

any attempt at discussion was shouted down and people were accused of all sorts simply for not being pro enough

i feel ive been very clear on this point (3rd or 4th time now )


thee was lots of street violence and political violence in pre world war two Europe too is that where we are heading ?

Brian?

mynamejeff wrote: »

Ok


groups who define them self's as " mass social movements"

ie but not limited to

My evidence is first hand personal experiences and observations with water protesters gay marriage black lives matter american nationalists antifa pro and anti islam groups pro and anti trump groups pro life and repeal the 8th groups supports of all irish political parties etc etc etc

So any group that falls under the umbrella of "mass social movement" as defined by you? That's convenient for you.

You are basically generalising every group campaigning for social progress from hard left anarchists to moderate marriage equality campaigners into one homogenous group. You don't see a problem with that at all?

By your logic every conservative is the same as a Nazi. They aren't.

wes

Help!!!! wrote: »

A man who had mental health problems & an unhealthy appetite for Nazi ran down the people & he will get jail.

When, the terrorist is "white", there mentally ill. FFS, that nonsense being trotted out is getting old.

You guys need to starting "Radical Neo Nazi Terrorism" .

Again, the excuses are beyond pathetic. The lev
el of apologetics for Nazi's is truly breath taking.

Help!!!! wrote: »

Antifa on the other hand are lucky they haven't killed anyone, throwing homemade bombs of M80 grenades in glass bottles.

As compared to slitting someone throat, or shooting an Indian man, or walking into a church and killing Black parishioners, or walking into Mosque and killing parishioners (added bonus, Donald and Donald Jnr, blamed Muslims on that, when the terrorist was a Trump and LePen supporter), or walking into a Gudware and killing parishoners. There is no comparison at all between the 2.

The obsessive whataboutism is beyond tiresome.

Help!!!! wrote: »

Antifa started the violence when they started attacking Trump supporters going to his rallies to spare me the "antifa are the good guys" speech

I never said they were good guys. Also, again the Nazi Trump supporters have killed people, and have engaged in multiple terror attacks. Blaming Antifa is beyond pathetic.

Your Trump loving Neo Nazi, used the exact same tactics as an ISIS terrorist, and all we are hearing is excuse after excuse for him and his ilk.

Antifa isn't a get out of jail free card.

For Reals

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

We all heard about the fellow that was fired from google recently , there were planned ( March on google ) protests this weekend that have now being called off for the moment due to left wing threats.

Look it's within the interest of the racists to group every non-racist into a big ball of fringe left.
At the end of the day the white supremacists are wrong. All violence is wrong. It's ideology here, no matter how much 'whatabout' the racists can muster.

Help!!!! wrote: »

A man who had mental health problems & an unhealthy appetite for Nazi ran down the people & he will get jail.
Antifa on the other hand are lucky they haven't killed anyone, throwing homemade bombs of M80 grenades in glass bottles.
Antifa started the violence when they started attacking Trump supporters going to his rallies to spare me the "antifa are the good guys" speech

You are coming across as an apologist for the ALT-Right with that post, IMO.
No true racist etc etc? coupled with a supposin'. Pretty poor.

InTheTrees

Help!!!! wrote: »

He didn't say Nazi's were fine people. He said there were fine people on both sides. You do realise it was a unite the right march? Not all there were nazi/kkk etc

If you're walking along with a group of people chanting "jews will not replace us" and carrying nazi flags then you're either a nazi or a nazi sympathiser.

Help!!!!

For Reals wrote: »

Condemning all sides equally was supporting the Nazi/white supremacists by putting them on par with people protesting against hate/fascism.

Seriously, if it went off peacefully we'd have racists on one side and those for equality on the other. Just folks on the same moral level out for a stroll?
Citing Trump as a voice of reason is shameful.

So you dont see Antifa calling all Trump supporters or anyone carrying an American flag a racist/fascist & that its OK to punch/kill said racist/fascist?
You haven't seen BLM members calling for the end of the white race & white women to abort their babies??
2 sides of the same coin I'm afraid

wes

Help!!!! wrote: »

He didn't say Nazi's were fine people. He said there were fine people on both sides. You do realise it was a unite the right march? Not all there were nazi/kkk etc

So, best case scenario, is that people were ok marching with Nazi's . You have some low standards.

Help!!!! wrote: »

One guy committed a so called terrorist attack. I bet when its a Muslim you start shouted " its not all Muslims "

I didn't blame all white people, which would be the equivalent comparison to what you state.

For example, I hold all members of ISIS responsible for there terror attacks, and the same goes for Nazi's. Those 2 are comparable groups.

For Reals

mynamejeff wrote: »

again your missing my point

any attempt at discussion was shouted down and people were accused of all sorts simply for not being pro enough

i feel ive been very clear on this point (3rd or 4th time now )


thee was lots of street violence and political violence in pre world war two Europe too is that where we are heading ?

What discussion? We heard from the Conservative church folk. There in no argument for inequality.
Talk like 'Thuggery on both sides' puts Nazis on par with everyone else. You should see that.

Help!!!!

InTheTrees wrote: »

If you're walking along with a group of people chanting "jews will not replace us" and carrying nazi flags then you're either a nazi or a nazi sympathiser.

There are plenty of independent journalists who get called racist just for being there. It was a unite the right march there were other groups like the proud boys were going to be there but they pulled out. Again not all went with swastikas or hoods & not all chanted racist slogans

Manic Moran

VinLieger wrote: »

Ahh grand so its actually okay then to consider Hitler and his generals heros because of their military accomplishments?

I can think of two German monuments off the top of my head which have been causing discussion recently. One is a monument to the visit of Herman Goerring in a town he founded (reclaimed land) in about 1935, the other a statue of a German private put up in the Netherlands. The one has nothing to do with the war at all, and just relates to the town's creation.
The other was because the soldier saved the lives of two Dutch children and died. The controversy in that one is obviously because the soldier was part of the occupying army.

General monuments such as the one to U-boat crews seem much less controversial.

wes

Help!!!! wrote: »

So you dont see Antifa calling all Trump supporters or anyone carrying an American flag a racist/fascist & that its OK to punch/kill said racist/fascist?

The only people killing anyone, are the Nazi's from those 2 groups.

Help!!!! wrote: »

You haven't seen BLM members calling for the end of the white race & white women to abort their babies??

Bull****. Care to show me where the BLM leadership have said any such thing?

Danzy

Help!!!! wrote: »

A man who had mental health problems & an unhealthy appetite for Nazi ran down the people & he will get jail.
Antifa on the other hand are lucky they haven't killed anyone, throwing homemade bombs of M80 grenades in glass bottles.
Antifa started the violence when they started attacking Trump supporters going to his rallies to spare me the "antifa are the good guys" speech

If this guy is guilty and it looks like it, I have no problem with him getting the Chair.

This escalation of Street Violence has really kicked off since Berkley and Antifa's rampage there against an obnoxious peroxide twat.

That they were allowed do that signaled that there was a free for all and given that the Antifa tend to be more middle/upper class and their opponents working class the pendulum has since swung the other way. That will swing back as they escalate in return.

The assholes on the other side topped it last weekend, not for want the other side didn't get the same result before hand.

They'll keep at it because it makes them relevant, it makes them feel alive, the like the control and the fear they instill on others and they have it well thought out.

Remember Antifa and their Fascists twins each come from a school of politics that grew together, and each killed tens of millions, the most murderous belief systems in history are their corner stones.

Help!!!!

wes wrote: »

So, best case scenario, is that people were ok marching with Nazi's . You have some low standards.



I didn't blame all white people, which would be the equivalent comparison to what you state.

For example, I hold all members of ISIS responsible for there terror attacks, and the same goes for Nazi's. Those 2 are comparable groups.

Not if your an Antifa member the lines between white & racist get blurred

For Reals

Help!!!! wrote: »

So you dont see Antifa calling all Trump supporters or anyone carrying an American flag a racist/fascist & that its OK to punch/kill said racist/fascist?
You haven't seen BLM members calling for the end of the white race & white women to abort their babies??
2 sides of the same coin I'm afraid

You seem obsessed with using 'antifa' as a beard for defending white supremacists.
Is Jimmy Fallon Antifa? I mean he gave a great monologue the other night condemning the racists.
I think Trump supporters can think on their decisions themselves.

It'll really stick it to the 'Antifa' if there were no fascists wouldn't it? That'd show them :rolleyes:
We've seen the results of the fasicts getting their way...

oscarBravo

Help!!!! wrote: »

He didn't say Nazi's were fine people. He said there were fine people on both sides. You do realise it was a unite the right march? Not all there were nazi/kkk etc

It's bizarre that this needs to be spelled out to anyone with the intelligence to type a post without drooling on their keyboard, but:

It was a fascist rally.

If you genuinely believe that it's acceptable to march alongside people waving actual f*cking swastikas, while thinking "I'm not a Nazi, but..." then you need to have a long, hard look at yourself followed by a bit of historical research.

Non-fascists don't attend fascist rallies. "Fine people" don't attend fascist rallies. Stop making excuses for fascists.

One guy committed a so called terrorist attack. I bet when its a Muslim you start shouted " its not all Muslims "

That's a completely bizarre comparison. Are you seriously arguing that your average Nazi is a decent bloke, and that there are just a few bad apples?

I don't know what's going on in the world. There are people on an Irish website defending fascists. They'll claim they're not, but hey: I guess we're in a post-fact world.

wes

Help!!!! wrote: »

Not if your an Antifa member the lines between white & racist get blurred

Yet, its the Nazi's killing people. Go figure..........

I have yet to see Antifa going around attacking and killing random white people.

On the other hand Nazi/White supremacists, do go around killing non-white (and white people who disagree with them) all the damn time. I gave multiple example of them doing exactly that.

mynamejeff

Tony EH wrote: »

That's absolute bollocks.

The were endless radio and TV debates/shows etc re: Irish Water and Gay Marriage.

However, there weren't any running battles in the streets between supporters of Irish Water or those against it, nor was there any public confrontations between those for or against gay marriage.

It's not even in the same ballpark. It's not even the same game FFS.

Once again , the point is that no debate was allowed because of aggressiveness from one side

do you want me to post the links of meter installers and garda being attacked harassed and intimidated by violent aggressive and thuggish protesters ?

you seem fixated of the gay marriage issue . it was the least contested of the many examples i offered ill agree but my point still stands as i made it.

jackofalltrades

Akrasia wrote: »

People talk about free speech, When fascists have free speech, they use it to take power and then shut down free speech for everyone but themselves.

There are more than enough historical examples of this happening for it to be in any doubt.

Fascist have in the past and continue to spread their ideology.
It doesn't spread past a tiny tiny minority because their ideas are so abhorrent.
Antifa falsely attributes this to their violent actions, they're largely irrelevant.

wes wrote: »

Antifa don't engage in terrorism.

Yes they do, they use violence and intimation in pursuit of a political aim.

wes

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Yes they do, they use violence and intimation in pursuit of a political aim.

Against armed fascists, and not civilians.

Help!!!!

wes wrote: »

The only people killing anyone, are the Nazi's from those 2 groups.



Bull****. Care to show me where the BLM leadership have said any such thing?

Plenty of examples online if you care to look

Help!!!!

For Reals wrote: »

You seem obsessed with using 'antifa' as a beard for defending white supremacists.
Is Jimmy Fallon Antifa? I mean he gave a great monologue the other night condemning the racists.
I think Trump supporters can think on their decisions themselves.

It'll really stick it to the 'Antifa' if there were no fascists wouldn't it? That'd show them :rolleyes:
We've seen the results of the fasicts getting their way...

Who defending white supremacists?? What I'm saying is that both sides are equally as bad as each other. The rise of the alt right/kkk etc is down to the likes of antifa attacking innocent people going to rallies or conferences
We've seen the results of communism as well