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Season 7 Episode 5 "Eastwatch" - "Book readers"

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    #32
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭Daith


    Riddle101 wrote: »
    Was just thinking what name you could give Jon Snow's crew matching beyond the wall. I was thinking something like The Magnificent B*stards which is a play on the Magnificent Seven.

    The Seven Pointed Stars


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    #33
    5star02707
    Registered Users Posts: 2,464 ✭✭✭5star02707


    The Outkasts :pac:


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    #34
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,487 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Good episode overall.

    I think the Gendry explanation is a bit thin. It has been years since he was sent off rowing, are they really saying absolutely nobody noticed that the guy who makes really good swords and armor was back in Kings Landing?


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    #35
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 7,415 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    awec wrote: »
    Good episode overall.

    I think the Gendry explanation is a bit thin. It has been years since he was sent off rowing, are they really saying absolutely nobody noticed that the guy who makes really good swords and armor was back in Kings Landing?
    Who's left who knows who he actually is? He left Kings Landing years ago and with only a handful of people ever having met him. Ned was one, but he's dead. I'm struggling to think of anyone who both knew what he looked like and knew who his father was.


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    #36
    Kunkka
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭Kunkka


    I must have missed Sam seeing something about Jon's heritage. Can someone enlighten me please?


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    #37
    DeadHand
    Registered Users Posts: 2,735 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    awec wrote: »
    I think the Gendry explanation is a bit thin. It has been years since he was sent off rowing, are they really saying absolutely nobody noticed that the guy who makes really good swords and armor was back in Kings Landing?

    It's been almost non stop warfare since then so Kings Landing is likely packed to the rafters with guys who make really good swords and armour. Populations are transient during times of war with tons of people seeking refuge in the big city. I doubt anyone raised an eyebrow at yet another random, itinerant young man showing up seeking shelter/work.

    It's all related to Sansa's "everyone who knows what he looked like is dead" line about Ned. People who are instantly recognisable to viewers and may have, to varying degrees and in their own ponds, been somewhat famous (Gendry, Arya, Davos, even Tyrion) are now total strangers to the in-world general public. Time and life moves on swiftly in the world of GOT.

    Plus, in a medieval society such as that GOT is set in, it's likely that the vast bulk of people lived their entire lives without ever knowing what their Lords, Ladies and other important figures look like.

    Even Tyrion, who most be a figure of near folklore (the self-proclaimed "most famous dwarf in the world") at this stage with an appearance as distinctive as it gets is not instantly recognisably to the guards at KL.

    If people can't even recognise Tyrion there's no way they're going to recognise Gendry.

    I'm OK with that. A gold handed, exhausted man in heavy armour escaping deep water on the other hand....


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    #38
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 7,415 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Kunkka wrote: »
    I must have missed Sam seeing something about Jon's heritage. Can someone enlighten me please?
    Gilly reading about "Ragger" Targaryen's annullment and re-marriage.


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    #39
    Kunkka
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭Kunkka


    CMOTDibbler wrote: »
    Gilly reading about "Ragger" Targaryen's annullment and re-marriage.

    I purposely zone out every time she talks. :eek: Thank you!


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    #40
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 7,415 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    DeadHand wrote: »
    It's been almost non stop warfare since then so Kings Landing is likely packed to the rafters with guys who make really good swords and armour. Populations are transient during times of war with tons of people seeking refuge in the big city. I doubt anyone raised an eyebrow at yet another random, itinerant young man showing up seeking shelter/work.
    It's also his relevance. Back when he rowed away, he was a direct threat to Joffrey's succession. Stannis was openly declaring Joffrey to be Jaime's bastard son, so if that had taken hold and a bastard son of Robert's had appeared when the succession was in such a state of flux, the whole house of cards could have come crashing down.

    Cersei has the throne now and no amount of Baratheon bastards can depose her.


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    #41
    Brego888
    Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭Brego888


    So if Rhaegar got an annulment and he and Lyanna legitimately married that now confirms John is the rightful heir to the iron throne


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    #42
    EagererBeaver
    Registered Users Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭EagererBeaver


    Brego888 wrote: »
    So if Rhaegar got an annulment and he and Lyanna legitimately married that now confirms John is the rightful heir to the iron throne

    Yes. I fully expect a Bran flashback to confirm it.


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    #43
    rossie1977
    Registered Users Posts: 11,342 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    Brego888 wrote: »
    So if Rhaegar got an annulment and he and Lyanna legitimately married that now confirms John is the rightful heir to the iron throne

    And more than likely confirms Dany as the main heel of the story. I expect a big turn in season 8.


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    #44
    EagererBeaver
    Registered Users Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭EagererBeaver


    I think too much being made of Jon's Targaryen heritage and legitimacy. He is Ned's son in all but blood. He has no interest in ruling.


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    #45
    J. Marston
    Registered Users Posts: 23,118 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    EagererBeaver wrote: »
    Yes. I fully expect a Bran flashback to confirm it.

    Would be brilliant to actually see Rhaegar in the show.


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    #46
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭Daith


    EagererBeaver wrote: »
    I think too much being made of Jon's Targaryen heritage and legitimacy. He is Ned's son in all but blood. He has no interest in ruling.

    Agreed. The start of the books make a big deal about succession and claim to the throne. I don't think it's going to be as big a factor as people think with Jon.


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    #47
    MrsFlushdraw
    Registered Users Posts: 2,880 ✭✭✭MrsFlushdraw


    Daith wrote: »
    Agreed. The start of the books make a big deal about succession and claim to the throne. I don't think it's going to be as big a factor as people think with Jon.

    Might be more of an effect on Dany though as she has always bleated on about being the last Targ etc


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    #48
    Savage Tyrant
    Registered Users Posts: 3,165 ✭✭✭Savage Tyrant


    I thought it odd that there was no mention between Jon and Jorah Mormont about Longclaw. It would have been nice to see Jon offer it back but have Jorah refuse and accept Jon as the owner of the blade.
    But they could have at least mentioned it.


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    #49
    rossie1977
    Registered Users Posts: 11,342 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    EagererBeaver wrote: »
    I think too much being made of Jon's Targaryen heritage and legitimacy. He is Ned's son in all but blood. He has no interest in ruling.

    And yet every step of the way he has been convinced to rule despite initially not wanting the task...


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    #50
    Kunkka
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭Kunkka


    Savage Tyrant wrote: »
    I thought it odd that there was no mention between Jon and Jorah Mormont about Longclaw. It would have been nice to see Jon offer it back but have Jorah refuse and accept Jon as the owner of the blade.
    But they could have at least mentioned it.

    Yes I thought that too.

    Did anyone else get a buzz out of Gendry and his hammer? Deadly shoutout to the Robert of old who crushed Rhaegor's head on the trident.


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    #51
    EagererBeaver
    Registered Users Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭EagererBeaver


    Kunkka wrote: »
    Yes I thought that too.

    Did anyone else get a buzz out of Gendry and his hammer? Deadly shoutout to the Robert of old who crushed Rhaegor's head on the trident.

    I thought it was ridiculous. He was a bastard apprentice smith in a boat who knew bugger all of his heritage. Next thing you know he's out looking to avenge "his father" and is a competent warrior.


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    #52
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭Daith


    EagererBeaver wrote: »
    I thought it was ridiculous. He was a bastard apprentice smith in a boat who knew bugger all of his heritage. Next thing you know he's out looking to avenge "his father" and is a competent warrior.

    Sounds like Arya? Who knows what Gendry got up to/learned in Kings Landing since we saw him last. I agree with the heritage bit and buddy buddy with Jon stuff but don't have a problem with him learning to fight.


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    #53
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    EagererBeaver wrote: »
    I think too much being made of Jon's Targaryen heritage and legitimacy. He is Ned's son in all but blood. He has no interest in ruling.
    Ned didn't want to rule, or even get involved in the politics and intrigues of KL but his lack of lust for power made him the ideal person to actually rule. Robert said as much.


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    #54
    EagererBeaver
    Registered Users Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭EagererBeaver


    Daith wrote: »
    Sounds like Arya? Who knows what Gendry got up to/learned in Kings Landing since we saw him last.

    Arya received formal training from a guild of master assassins. She grew up the daughter of the Lord of a great house and watched her father get executed. There is nothing alike about their stories.


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    #55
    EagererBeaver
    Registered Users Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭EagererBeaver


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    Ned didn't want to rule, or even get involved in the politics and intrigues of KL but his lack of lust for power made him the ideal person to actually rule. Robert said as much.

    It also led to him to fail completely in how to play the Game, which ended up costing him his head.


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    #56
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭Daith


    EagererBeaver wrote: »
    Arya received formal training from a guild of master assassins. She grew up the daughter of the Lord of a great house and watched her father get executed. There is nothing alike about their stories.

    We've no idea what he got up to though to become a better fighter? He was also nearly killed because of his father. Don't think there's a massive difference aside from the fact we saw Arya train.


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    #57
    EagererBeaver
    Registered Users Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭EagererBeaver


    Daith wrote: »
    We've no idea what he got up to though to become a better fighter? He was also nearly killed because of his father. Don't think there's a massive difference aside from the fact we saw Arya train.

    He went back to KL and made weaponry again. We learnt that in this episode. The whole point is that we saw Arya train. Having Gendry just be a great warrior is ridiculous in my book. You can't have "draw your own conclusions about how he did it" when we invested two years in Arya cleaning dead bodies and getting whacked with a stick.

    Back in one of the earlier seasons he refers to himself as "some lord's bastard" or similar. Doesn't care about his heritage at all. His sudden appearance as proud son of Robert Baratheon is just a bit much for me.


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    #58
    Dave0301
    Registered Users Posts: 2,475 ✭✭✭Dave0301


    EagererBeaver wrote: »
    Daith wrote: »
    We've no idea what he got up to though to become a better fighter? He was also nearly killed because of his father. Don't think there's a massive difference aside from the fact we saw Arya train.

    He went back to KL and made weaponry again. We learnt that in this episode. The whole point is that we saw Arya train. Having Gendry just be a great warrior is ridiculous in my book. You can't have "draw your own conclusions about how he did it" when we invested two years in Arya cleaning dead bodies and getting whacked with a stick.

    Back in one of the earlier seasons he refers to himself as "some lord's bastard" or similar. Doesn't care about his heritage at all. His sudden appearance as proud son of Robert Baratheon is just a bit much for me.

    When in that episode was Gendry portrayed as "great warrior"?

    Your posts seem to suggest you are watching the show waiting to pick each episode apart gleefully.


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    #59
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭Daith


    EagererBeaver wrote: »
    He went back to KL and made weaponry again. We learnt that in this episode. The whole point is that we saw Arya train. Having Gendry just be a great warrior is ridiculous in my book. You can't have "draw your own conclusions about how he did it" when we invested two years in Arya cleaning dead bodies and getting whacked with a stick.

    We saw Arya train because she's a main character. Not seeing how every minor character develops isn't a issue.

    Nothing in the episode shows Gendry to be a "great warrior" but he clearly has some skill as he effortlessly kills two guards (albeit unaware). I don't have an issue with him learning some fighting skills over the years.
    EagererBeaver wrote: »
    Back in one of the earlier seasons he refers to himself as "some lord's bastard" or similar. Doesn't care about his heritage at all. His sudden appearance as proud son of Robert Baratheon is just a bit much for me.

    He didn't care about his heritage because he didn't know it ("Some lord's bastard) until he's taken by Melisandre and discovers the truth.

    Isn't one of the points of the show about people growing and changing? Yet you're expecting Gendry to be exactly the same?


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    #60
    connemara man
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 6,773 Mod ✭✭✭✭connemara man


    EagererBeaver wrote: »
    He went back to KL and made weaponry again. We learnt that in this episode. The whole point is that we saw Arya train. Having Gendry just be a great warrior is ridiculous in my book. You can't have "draw your own conclusions about how he did it" when we invested two years in Arya cleaning dead bodies and getting whacked with a stick.

    Back in one of the earlier seasons he refers to himself as "some lord's bastard" or similar. Doesn't care about his heritage at all. His sudden appearance as proud son of Robert Baratheon is just a bit much for me.

    Gendry said he can handle himself and crushed 2 unarmed soldiers by attacking them from behind, with a weapon of his own making, that's a version of what he works every day with. definitely not great warrior stuff


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    #61
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 7,415 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Dave0301 wrote: »
    When in that episode was Gendry portrayed as "great warrior"?

    Your posts seem to suggest you are watching the show waiting to pick each episode apart gleefully.
    Yeah, you don't need to train, just live in Flea Bottom for a while and work with hammers all day long. :D


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