General Ongoing Doctor Discussion

snowflaker · 16-07-2017 4:42pm

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Doctor Who was one of the very few genuine good male role models left out there for young men sad to see that change I must say.

Yes, they're are so few male lead roles left in tv...

martingriff · 16-07-2017 4:42pm

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Doctor Who was one of the very few genuine good male role models left out there for young men sad to see that change I must say.

Why does the Doctor have to be male. The Master has been female for the last few seasons.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 16-07-2017 4:44pm

The_Valeyard wrote: »

After been forced to watch St. Trinians years ago, my patience for those actors is low

She's in those for like 2 minutes.

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Doctor Who was one of the very few genuine good male role models left out there for young men sad to see that change I must say.

I can see your point, to a degree, but I think we should be at a point in time now where boys don't think they can only be influenced by men. Same goes for girls with women. If the Doctor still has all the qualities of the previous 12 then why can't a young boy look up to her?

super_furry · 16-07-2017 4:45pm

Great decision, she was great in Attack the Block too. Would have liked Richard Ayode myself but this is pretty awesome too.

Ben Gadot · 16-07-2017 4:45pm

snowflaker wrote: »

You knew it was female by the frame

Didn't myself by the angles at first. Looked too broad shouldered.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 16-07-2017 4:47pm

Ben Gadot wrote: »

Didn't myself by the angles at first. Looked too broad shouldered.

Same. I immediately thought it was too broad to be a woman.

Lord TSC · 16-07-2017 4:47pm

I figured the second they were hiding the hair, it was a woman. If it was a guy with short hair, they'd have shown it but they were hiding her features.

super_furry · 16-07-2017 4:47pm

McLoughlin wrote: »

Put up with allot of nonsense over past 10 years of Nu Who but kept watching out of habit but a female doctor feels too much of a desperate gimmick and is enough for me not to tune in.

A regenerating alien time lord who battles unfathomable enemies to save a multitude of civilisations on a regular basis is believable but it's her being a woman that's the gimmick to far for you? Riiiiight.

johnny_ultimate · 16-07-2017 4:49pm

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Doctor Who was one of the very few genuine good male role models left out there for young men sad to see that change I must say.

Young men have had several decades of a good male role model that aren't suddenly erased by this announcement, y'know! And female characters can be role models for young men, too!

Let's hope this take on one of pop culture's most changeable, dynamic characters is remembered not only as a belated pioneer, but a genuinely worthy addition to a television tradition.

16-07-2017 4:49pm

I was driving when the announcement was made - who is it? Olivia whatsherface?
Edit: i see now, interesting. Don't know her at all really.
I'll find it strange if it's not a guy anymore but sure looking forward to seeing how this goes!definitely not got a problem with it

martingriff · 16-07-2017 4:50pm

Is the who point of been called The Doctor was to not distinguish a gender. As another post said the regeneration process is meant to be lottery you could have 2 heads, a tail, look like other species. So why not another gender. Those who chose to throw there toys out of the box and not watch because WAHHHHHHHHHHHHH the Doctor is a female should have a look at themselves. Now for someone who has a name like James Bond I be saying its a gimmick. Would still watch but be saying it was a gimmick

Lord TSC · 16-07-2017 4:51pm

bluewolf wrote: »

I was driving when the announcement was made - who is it? Olivia whatsherface?

Jodie Whittaker

martingriff · 16-07-2017 4:51pm

Ben Gadot wrote: »

Didn't myself by the angles at first. Looked too broad shouldered.

Thought that 2

super_furry · 16-07-2017 4:54pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Young men have had several decades of a good male role model that aren't suddenly erased by this announcement, y'know! And female characters can be role models for young men, too!

Captain Picard, Superman, Professor Xavier and Malcolm Reynolds are all dead now, killed by the 13th Doctor. RIP.

ebbsy · 16-07-2017 4:55pm

Death blow for Doctor Who.

Wibbs · 16-07-2017 4:55pm

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Blah.

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Meh.

Wont be that interested in the next season.

McLoughlin wrote: »

Put up with allot of nonsense over past 10 years of Nu Who but kept watching out of habit but a female doctor feels too much of a desperate gimmick and is enough for me not to tune in.

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Doctor Who was one of the very few genuine good male role models left out there for young men sad to see that change I must say.

+1 Yep, Game Over for me. There has been more than enough Right On BBC style ham fisted virtue signalling and gender politics in the last while, so this hardly comes as a shock.

martingriff wrote:

Why does the Doctor have to be male. The Master has been female for the last few seasons.

Which was also a gimmick.

Now for someone who has a name like James Bond I be saying its a gimmick. Would still watch but be saying it was a gimmick

Jesus.

super_furry wrote:

A regenerating alien time lord who battles unfathomable enemies to save a multitude of civilisations on a regular basis is believable but it's her being a woman that's the gimmick to far for you? Riiiiight.

Yep, because it's BBC politics playing fast and loose.

johnny_ultimate wrote:

Young men have had several decades of a good male role model that aren't suddenly erased by this announcement, y'know! And female characters can be role models for young men, too!

I disagree. And look at the current crop of fantasy/sci fi shows. Even where the men are leads they're regularly seen as a bit silly and need a woman to steer them right.

CastorTroy wrote: »

If she can be quirky and they don't play up her gender too much, she'll be grand.

"they don't play up her gender too much"? The last series was all about that kind of nonsense.

So yeah...

headdesk.jpg?w=240

16-07-2017 4:59pm

I absolutely and utterly love missy. Michelle gomez is fantastic.
Hey missy you so fine

martingriff · 16-07-2017 5:00pm

Wibbs wrote: »

+1 Yep, Game Over for me. There has been more than enough Right On BBC style ham fisted virtue signalling and gender politics in the last while, so this hardly comes as a shock.

Which was also a gimmick.

Jesus.

Yep, because it's BBC politics playing fast and loose.

I disagree. And look at the current crop of fantasy/sci fi shows. Even where the men are leads they're regularly seen as a bit silly and need a woman to steer them right.

"they don't play up her gender too much"? The last series was all about that kind of nonsense.

So yeah...

May have been at the start but hey it worked and people like her character. Yes I think James Bond as a woman would be a gimmick but I would still watch to see if it was any good and make a decision to see if it would fit.

But your stance of oh its a woman so be crap has to be a man and not watching to find out is crazy

But hey your choice. Just do not det defensive when people point it out

martingriff · 16-07-2017 5:02pm

ebbsy wrote: »

Death blow for Doctor Who.

Without even watching it.

Lord TSC · 16-07-2017 5:02pm

My attitude with any casting choice for a character I know would be to write a list of ten characteristics about them, and see how many the casted actor hits.

Admittedly, "The Doctor is a man" would be on that list, and Jodie doesn't hit it....but if she can hit the other 9, who cares if she misses what is, ultimately, one of the least significant ones.

super_furry · 16-07-2017 5:03pm

Some really nice stuff from Colin Baker on twitter about the new Doctor.

https://mobile.twitter.com/sawboneshex/status/886608978138083335

https://mobile.twitter.com/sawboneshex/status/886613052447129601

snowflaker · 16-07-2017 5:04pm

Why does the doctor have to be a man?

The_Valeyard · 16-07-2017 5:04pm

Wibbs wrote: »

+1 Yep, Game Over for me. There has been more than enough Right On BBC style ham fisted virtue signalling and gender politics in the last while, so this hardly comes as a shock.

Which was also a gimmick.

Jesus.

Yep, because it's BBC politics playing fast and loose.

I disagree. And look at the current crop of fantasy/sci fi shows. Even where the men are leads they're regularly seen as a bit silly and need a woman to steer them right.

"they don't play up her gender too much"? The last series was all about that kind of nonsense.

So yeah...

Ay right. People have different opinions to yours. Best to ridicule......

The_Valeyard · 16-07-2017 5:04pm

Wibbs wrote: »

+1 Yep, Game Over for me. There has been more than enough Right On BBC style ham fisted virtue signalling and gender politics in the last while, so this hardly comes as a shock.

Which was also a gimmick.

Jesus.

Yep, because it's BBC politics playing fast and loose.

I disagree. And look at the current crop of fantasy/sci fi shows. Even where the men are leads they're regularly seen as a bit silly and need a woman to steer them right.

"they don't play up her gender too much"? The last series was all about that kind of nonsense.

So yeah...

Ay right. People have different opinions to yours. Best to ridicule......

snowflaker · 16-07-2017 5:06pm

The broflakes are out in force already it seems...

CastorTroy · 16-07-2017 5:07pm

Wibbs wrote: »

"they don't play up her gender too much"? The last series was all about that kind of nonsense.

So yeah...

Pretty sure it was a man playing the Doctor in the last season

alchemist33 · 16-07-2017 5:07pm

Lord TSC wrote: »

My attitude with any casting choice for a character I know would be to write a list of ten characteristics about them, and see how many the casted actor hits.

Admittedly, "The Doctor is a man" would be on that list, and Jodie doesn't hit it....but if she can hit the other 9, who cares if she misses what is, ultimately, one of the least significant ones.

Quite a sensible way to see it.

Unlike the previously mentioned James Bond whose maleness is so essential to the character that changing that one characteristic would invalidate her/him.

pixelburp · 16-07-2017 5:10pm

ebbsy wrote: »

Death blow for Doctor Who.

Oh come on. Don't like the choice if you want, but don't bow to hyperbole, just cos a fictional time travelling alien who changes faces, changes to a version you don't approve of.

martingriff · 16-07-2017 5:13pm

alchemist33 wrote: »

Quite a sensible way to see it.

Unlike the previously mentioned James Bond whose maleness is so essential to the character that changing that one characteristic would invalidate her/him.

The only reason I would call the cast of James Bond a gimmick is because of the name James which is a males names and brings up the thought of a man. I also said I would watch the movie to see how the actress would fit in and it could work.

A female spy I be up for it I think it be a great concept. It was only because of the name James

The Doctor to me is gender neutral

johnny_ultimate · 16-07-2017 5:13pm

At first the insane reaction from the small few twitter crazies to casting females in popular genre fiction infuriated me.

Now I just find it kind of absurdly funny, with a hint of pity.

Doctor Who will survive and continue to thrive.

snowflaker · 16-07-2017 5:15pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

At first the insane reaction from the small few twitter crazies to casting females in popular genre fiction infuriated me.

Now I just find it kind of absurdly funny, with a hint of pity.

Some of the reactions I hope is sarcasm or wums, otherwise they are genuinely scarey

snowflaker · 16-07-2017 5:15pm

https://twitter.com/shells_twits/status/886609043300765701

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 16-07-2017 5:17pm

CastorTroy wrote: »

Pretty sure it was a man playing the Doctor in the last season

Apparently it's not just a female Doctor some object to, it's women in general doing anything.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 16-07-2017 5:20pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

At first the insane reaction from the small few twitter crazies to casting females in popular genre fiction infuriated me.

Now I just find it kind of absurdly funny, with a hint of pity.

Doctor Who will survive and continue to thrive.

I think the show has been slowly dying for a while now, or struggling at least. I follow quite a few hardcore Doctor Who fans on twitter and they've all been almost grudge watching the last few series, not because of cast, but because of the writing and general running of the show. I think the fact that there's a whole new production team on board as well as a new Doctor and presumably companion, will inject new life into the show.

Wibbs · 16-07-2017 5:22pm

martingriff wrote: »

Yes I think James Bond as a woman would be a gimmick but I would still watch to see if it was any good and make a decision to see if it would fit.

Jesus Part Deux.

But your stance of oh its a woman so be crap has to be a man and not watching to find out is crazy

She might be good, she might be crap, she'll never be Doctor Who in my eyes anyway. As I said it's an example of a) a gimmick to attempt to save an ailing show that's haemorrhaging viewer figures and b) the BBC playing the Oh look how progressive we are card.

But hey your choice. Just do not det defensive when people point it out

Point away.

snowflaker wrote: »

Why does the doctor have to be a man?

Always has been a male character. One of the vanishingly few that didn't rely on his fists to be the hero. And yes I firmly believe boys/young men need such a character now more than ever. Just taking Doctor Who in the last few years there have been repeated little digs at being male along the way. You don't think kids miss that kinda thing? If the reverse was happening with young girls like it stupidly did in the past we'd be rightfully up in arms about it. But apparently it's OK when that's in reverse. Cool beans.

The_Valeyard wrote:

Ay right. People have different opinions to yours. Best to ridicule......

Where pray tell did I "ridicule"? Go ahead Ted, point it out. Though I'm apparently "crazy", "defensive" and latterly a "broflake".

CastorTroy wrote:

Pretty sure it was a man playing the Doctor in the last season

Who was hoping the future was female. With a few other examples of "men a bit silly/women great". It's quite the theme of late.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote:

Apparently it's not just a female Doctor some object to, it's women in general doing anything.

Wow that's a leap that would make an olympic long jumper proud. For me lest there is any confusion it's just a female Doctor Who.

jrkb · 16-07-2017 5:23pm

Dont know anything about her but she cant be any worse than Capaldi.

16-07-2017 5:24pm

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I think the show has been slowly dying for a while now, or struggling at least. I follow quite a few hardcore Doctor Who fans on twitter and they've all been almost grudge watching the last few series, not because of cast, but because of the writing and general running of the show. I think the fact that there's a whole new production team on board as well as a new Doctor and presumably companion, will inject new life into the show.

Yeah i have to admit i haven't been as impressed with capaldis era even though i love the characters all individually

16-07-2017 5:26pm

Lol the dramatics of it all
Never be the doctor
Go way outta that

Mr Rhode Island Red · 16-07-2017 5:28pm

I'll give it a chance, but at the same time I've been losing interest in DW over the last 2 or 3 seasons and I can't see this move holding my interest past the first few episodes, but as I said I'll give it a chance.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 16-07-2017 5:28pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Wow that's a leap that would make an olympic long jumper proud. For me lest there is any confusion it's just a female Doctor Who.

Except the original comment you made was about them "playing up to gender" and that kind of "nonsense" so it seems you have an issue with something other than the new Doctor.

snowflaker · 16-07-2017 5:28pm

Just because something has been "always that way" in the past, doesn't mean it cannot change in the future.

For Sci-fi "anything is possible"- except the doctor's gender changing when regenerated seems pretty petty

snowflaker · 16-07-2017 5:29pm

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Except the original comment you made was about them "playing up to gender" and that kind of "nonsense" so it seems you have an issue with something other than the new Doctor.

He was make wild assumptions- you cannot

Lord TSC · 16-07-2017 5:30pm

Is it so wrong to think you can tell boys that women can be role models too? Or is it because they don't have the correct genitalia, they are automatically discarded as role models?

ebbsy · 16-07-2017 5:31pm

They must be trying to kill it off.

martingriff · 16-07-2017 5:31pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Jesus Part Deux.

She might be good, she might be crap, she'll never be Doctor Who in my eyes anyway. As I said it's an example of a) a gimmick to attempt to save an ailing show that's haemorrhaging viewer figures and b) the BBC playing the Oh look how progressive we are card.

Point away.

Always has been a male character. One of the vanishingly few that didn't rely on his fists to be the hero. And yes I firmly believe boys/young men need such a character now more than ever. Just taking Doctor Who in the last few years there have been repeated little digs at being male along the way. You don't think kids miss that kinda thing? If the reverse was happening with young girls like it stupidly did in the past we'd be rightfully up in arms about it. But apparently it's OK when that's in reverse. Cool beans.

Where pray tell did I "ridicule"? Go ahead Ted, point it out. Though I'm apparently "crazy", "defensive" and latterly a "broflake".

Who was hoping the future was female. With a few other examples of "men a bit silly/women great". It's quite the theme of late.

Wow that's a leap that would make an olympic long jumper proud. For me lest there is any confusion it's just a female Doctor Who.

Why Jesus part Deux.

Why is it a gimmick. Why cant it be the casting going maybe we could go for a woman this time as The Doctor. People like Missy so it could work. Could that not have happened. If BBC were doing something like this to save the figures of Doctor Who why would they take the risky decision of changing The Doctor to a female. People who have never seen Doctor Who will not now suddenly start watching because its a woman.

You been defensive well that GIF of futurama.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 16-07-2017 5:32pm

bluewolf wrote: »

Yeah i have to admit i haven't been as impressed with capaldis era even though i love the characters all individually

I was a fan of Jenna Coleman before she was on DW and only sort of got into DW through her. I wasn't overly keen on Matt Smith as the Doctor but when they announced Capaldi was coming on board I kept watching. I absolutely loved how Coleman/Capaldi bounced off each other, I thought they had brilliant chemistry as actors, but the overall story lines were very messy, it always felt like it didn't make any kind of sense and Mofatt didn't have a tight reign over what he was doing.

Mr Rhode Island Red wrote: »

I'll give it a chance, but at the same time I've been losing interest in DW over the last 2 or 3 seasons and I can't see this move holding my interest past the first few episodes, but as I said I'll give it a chance.

Again I think the fact that there's been changes behind the scenes too could help with this. There's not just a new Doctor, it's almost like a reboot, if you like. Of course it could still be terrible, who knows, but I'm quite hopeful.

snowflaker · 16-07-2017 5:32pm

Lord TSC wrote: »

Is it so wrong to think you can tell boys that women can be role models too? Or is it because they don't have the correct genitalia, they are automatically discarded as role models?

Depends on how one views women themselves. How you view and treat others is ultimately a reflection of yourself

johnnyskeleton · 16-07-2017 5:33pm

I thought, and I might be wrong, that the Doctor being a weird alien who isnt interested in humans in a sexual way was all part of the comedy, from Matt Smith making childish comments about reproduction to David Tenants platonic love for Rose etc.

So the doctors gender makes no difference as he/she is fundamentally indifferent to humans sexually.

And the fact that hed been a woman before was well flagged IIRC.

The only interesting thing arising from the gender issue will be the companion interactions. There was some criticism from feminists that the doctor exemplified an old patriarchy stereotype of the older experienced man guiding the younger, sometimes hapless, female companion. Will the new doctor have a male or female companion? Will the dynamic change?

I think its far more interesting than Malcom Tucker playing a slightly tuned out elderly doctor.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 16-07-2017 5:36pm

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

The only interesting thing arising from the gender issue will be the companion interactions. There was some criticism from feminists that the doctor exemplified an old patriarchy stereotype of the older experienced man guiding the younger, sometimes hapless, female companion. Will the new doctor have a male or female companion? Will the dynamic change?

I wonder if Kris Marshall will be the new companion? His name was being thrown around an awful lot, you have to assume there was a reason for that.

I do wonder if that was Moffat and co. and if the BBC wanted to go with someone else do Moffat left?

johnny_ultimate · 16-07-2017 5:36pm

Lord TSC wrote: »

Is it so wrong to think you can tell boys that women can be role models too? Or is it because they don't have the correct genitalia, they are automatically discarded as role models?

If anything, the reaction of the loud few angry Internet men is proof of why young boys should probably be given a few more role models among the other 50% of the world's population.

General Ongoing Doctor Discussion

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