General Ongoing Doctor Discussion

pixelburp

Wibbs wrote: »

You do understand that for "99% of Western history" men were generally treated the same? The vast majority of people were vassals and a high born woman was far above a low born man. A male Doctor Who if he sniffed of being poor would have been ignored too. Though I strongly suspect the Beeb will whitewash the whole women as lesser thing, or actually maybe not, given the previous experience more likely to hammer it home in the usual clunky way.

I'm well aware Wibbs, I just mention it because all thing seeing equal it's very likely any historical story will rope in the notion that the doctors appearance will hinder her ability to command a room. The gender will come up, but knee jerk reactions that it'll be clunky preachy or whatever doesn't ring true, or fair. It kinda has to come up.

The doctor when male was always painted as an authority figure, The Caretaker pretty brazenly called him out as "Officer Class" and the show never really dalied with him being otherwise.

If nothing else putting her/him at a disadvantage of authority would be a new avenue, but just not one that should gain automatic eye rolls because that disadvantage happens to be abut gender.

pixelburp

Yourself isit wrote: »

Hmm. I assume BBC America is online and Netflix has Dr Who for sure.

It's because he is old. I personally think that's more of a drawback than gender to the modern fan.

This regeneration should be fun though and it might work. Something can be politically correct and still good.

This, above. I just don't get ultimately what the problem is, if something is well written and enjoyable then so what if it came from aggressive inclusiveness? What possible harm is there in the long run. There are far worse crimes of narrative than a few jokes about the doctor swapping gender.

Doctor DooM

The_Valeyard wrote: »

It's amazing the amount of new Doctor Who 'fans' since this announcement..... Just PC warriors found a new battlefield.

Ooooh you gonna go no true scotsman? I love that logical fallacy.

Doctor Who has since its reboot been consistently progressive and left leaning. This is no new thing.

I welcome new fans. You know why? Properties die without them. I embrace them.

During the 50th anniversary I sat in a convention room with 2 girls, I'd say they were 14, and chatted with them about being a Doctor Who fan in the 80s before the special came on. I think those kids will love this. And they're, you know, the future, so I'm happy for them.

There is actual people who call themselves "true fans" in many franchise who'd bitch and moan about kids like that because they're not "true" fans who didn't know about John Cleeses appearance during Bakers run. I would think a true fan would like their franchise to continue to grow and to find new people to share their love with.

The_Valeyard

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Ooooh you gonna go no true scotsman? I love that logical fallacy.

Doctor Who has since its reboot been consistently progressive and left leaning. This is no new thing.

I welcome new fans. You know why? Properties die without them. I embrace them.

During the 50th anniversary I sat in a convention room with 2 girls, I'd say they were 14, and chatted with them about being a Doctor Who fan in the 80s before the special came on. I think those kids will love this. And they're, you know, the future, so I'm happy for them.

There is actual people who call themselves "true fans" in many franchise who'd bitch and moan about kids like that because they're not "true" fans who didn't know about John Cleeses appearance during Bakers run. I would think a true fan would like their franchise to continue to grow and to find new people to share their love with.

Such lols of a ridiculous nature here.

Yourself isit

Anyway last comment for a while. I hope they make some fun of the new biology after regeneration.

Tenant noticed his new teeth after all. Would hope the new doctor mentions her tits. Maybe is a bit - off balance - for a while. Needs to shop for bras?

That kind of thing ( in the first episode I mean, long term bjust get on with it).

Wibbs

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I don't care as long as the show is good. I'm an actual fan of Doctor Who and a key tenant (heh) of that is change.

TBH I'm not a dyed in the wool Whovian like many hereabouts. More a guilty secret as it were. I was a huge fan as a kid. The first episode(s) I clearly remember(rather than just fragments) was Pertwee turning into Baker and then I was hooked*. My teens got in the way by the time Davidson got into his groove but he was OK and can't have been easy following Baker. I really only caught glimpses of Baker 2 and McCoy(though I recall watching Baker's Doctor cold blooded killing of a man as a WTF moment. Think it was shot in Spain, as was the BBC fashion of the day). I do remember watching the very last four parter of the original series, knowing it was the last and a bit saddened that a part of my childhood was now gone. Didn't think it too bad actually but a bit "children TV" for me. Watched the bigger budget McCann attempted reboot and kinda liked it, but wanted to see more(thankfully that died a death as they were going to ruin it. Spider Daleks and the like...).

Got excited about the reboot and really liked Eccy, Tennant about the same, Smith less, but still watchable, but Capaldi I kinda stuck at it. Which TBH really dissapointed me as I really liked him for the role. Dammit he just looked like The Doctor, has more gravitas than Jupiter and was a fan himself. Though I did rewatch a few of his a week ago(pre Bill ones) and IMHO he's far better upon a second watch. Still feel opportunity missed with an actor like him. This last series felt even more clunky and leaden and preachy for me. Awkward too with Bill's narrative. Here she is, now she's gone. But kinda not dead, so be grand. She had more in her IMHO.

I have a feeling I'd have watched whoever was cast out of more curiosity than fandom and the hope that a new show runner might work better, but this latest twist has entirely jumped the shark for me. I'll probably watch the Xmas episode as a send off to Cap and it looks like a nod back to the very start, but I reckon that'll be a nod back for me too and bookend my personal from little kid to now viewing of the story. So far my personal story as a viewer has echoed the ratings. I wonder will it continue like that. I suspect it will.





*even liked the 1960's Cushing two flics interpretation that used show up on Saturday matinees from time to time.

Yourself isit

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Ooooh you gonna go no true scotsman? I love that logical fallacy.

Doctor Who has since its reboot been consistently progressive and left leaning. This is no new thing.

I welcome new fans. You know why? Properties die without them. I embrace them.

During the 50th anniversary I sat in a convention room with 2 girls, I'd say they were 14, and chatted with them about being a Doctor Who fan in the 80s before the special came on. I think those kids will love this. And they're, you know, the future, so I'm happy for them.

There is actual people who call themselves "true fans" in many franchise who'd bitch and moan about kids like that because they're not "true" fans who didn't know about John Cleeses appearance during Bakers run. I would think a true fan would like their franchise to continue to grow and to find new people to share their love with.

He was talking about the new who fans since the announcement 2 hours ago. Not new in the last few years.

Doctor DooM

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Such lols of a ridiculous nature here.

You can laugh at me, I'll be out there enjoying myself.

Once again: Don't really care as long as the programme is good. Surely that's what a real fan would be like?

Doctor DooM

Yourself isit wrote: »

He was talking about the new who fans since the announcement 2 hours ago. Not new in the last few years.

And? If 5% of them stay around, mission accomplished, no?

Whenever any series changes the whole point is to bring in new fans, is it not?

Wibbs

pixelburp wrote: »

I just don't get ultimately what the problem is, if something is well written and enjoyable then so what if it came from aggressive inclusiveness?

I prefer my stories free of clunky and obvious political soapboxing thanks very much. Don't like jingoistic Go America! flics either.

pixelburp

The_Valeyard wrote: »

It's amazing the amount of new Doctor Who 'fans' since this announcement..... Just PC warriors found a new battlefield.

Consider this a friendly ask: debate the announcement all you want, but don't insinuate insult towards other users here for supporting or liking the decision. The reverse request holds too and Same for the rest, please hold off on the snark over 'PC Warriors', 'broflakes' or whatever.

Wibbs

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Whenever any series changes the whole point is to bring in new fans, is it not?

Only if it doesn't put off a larger amount of the existing fanbase. Though it would be my take that it's been doing this for a while. RTD aimed at the family viewing on their sofa of a Saturday night. The general population, the more nerdy fans showing up at conventions dressed as Klingons, sorry Cybermen were a side effect and not so much catered for(the "true fans" tend to dislike the RTD stuff and love Moffat. QV the favourite companion in public polls is consistently Rose, almost universally panned by "true fans"). Moffat went more for the latter and I reckon the drop in the viewing figures comes from the sofa set not really caring as much any more.

The_Valeyard

pixelburp wrote: »

Consider this a friendly ask: debate the announcement all you want, but don't insinuate insult towards other users here for supporting or liking the decision. The reverse request holds too and Same for the rest, please hold off on the snark over 'PC Warriors', 'broflakes' or whatever.

Well that was unexpected...

I was referring to the online reaction. Not targeting any user here. Not sure why I'd be singled out.

pixelburp

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Well that was unexpected...

I was referring to the online reaction. Not targeting any user here. Not sure why I'd be singled out.

Fair enough, hence the friendly ask. Just keen for the debate here to stay friendly and without using labels, which we have been, yourself included so no worries

connemara man

It's an interesting move changing to a female doctor. Hopefully it makes story sense and not I'm a girl now lol. Because if that works a lot of the misgivings will go away I think. I'm interested in how all the pre 1960 time travel will work. Will they only travel to times and places that had matriarchal influences.

I would have preferred Hayley Atwell to be honest I really like her as an actress

ebbsy

Wibbs wrote: »

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I don't care as long as the show is good. I'm an actual fan of Doctor Who and a key tenant (heh) of that is change.

TBH I'm not a dyed in the wool Whovian like many hereabouts. More a guilty secret as it were. I was a huge fan as a kid. The first episode(s) I clearly remember(rather than just fragments) was Pertwee turning into Baker and then I was hooked*. My teens got in the way by the time Davidson got into his groove but he was OK and can't have been easy following Baker. I really only caught glimpses of Baker 2 and McCoy(though I recall watching Baker's Doctor cold blooded killing of a man as a WTF moment. Think it was shot in Spain, as was the BBC fashion of the day). I do remember watching the very last four parter of the original series, knowing it was the last and a bit saddened that a part of my childhood was now gone. Didn't think it too bad actually but a bit "children TV" for me. Watched the bigger budget McCann attempted reboot and kinda liked it, but wanted to see more(thankfully that died a death as they were going to ruin it. Spider Daleks and the like...).

Got excited about the reboot and really liked Eccy, Tennant about the same, Smith less, but still watchable, but Capaldi I kinda stuck at it. Which TBH really dissapointed me as I really liked him for the role. Dammit he just looked like The Doctor, has more gravitas than Jupiter and was a fan himself. Though I did rewatch a few of his a week ago(pre Bill ones) and IMHO he's far better upon a second watch. Still feel opportunity missed with an actor like him. This last series felt even more clunky and leaden and preachy for me. Awkward too with Bill's narrative. Here she is, now she's gone. But kinda not dead, so be grand. She had more in her IMHO.

I have a feeling I'd have watched whoever was cast out of more curiosity than fandom and the hope that a new show runner might work better, but this latest twist has entirely jumped the shark for me. I'll probably watch the Xmas episode as a send off to Cap and it looks like a nod back to the very start, but I reckon that'll be a nod back for me too and bookend my personal from little kid to now viewing of the story. So far my personal story as a viewer has echoed the ratings. I wonder will it continue like that. I suspect it will.





*even liked the 1960's Cushing two flics interpretation that used show up on Saturday matinees from time to time.

Great post.

The_Valeyard

pixelburp wrote: »

so no worries

Kinda freaky,..... Currently listening to that song.

Lord TSC

connemara man wrote: »

I would have preferred Hayley Atwell to be honest I really like her as an actress

When I saw her name a few months back, I adored it, but then I loved Agent Carter.

Noticed how a discussion about "people only being fans in the last two hours" crop up. Admittedly, I don't frequent the forum often (not sure if I ever have) but have been a pretty big Who fan since the Kylie Xmas episode. My "popping up" would more be a case of today was a very, very big day for the show, and I wanted to discuss it, as would many people whenever there's a big moment in the history of whatever. Options were Reddit, which is just swamped with people so hard to get any actual discussion, or here, which was more intimate, so I started posting here.

Must actually try posting here more often, especially when episodes are on

Yourself isit

She's a brave woman.

Some male fans will be hoping her to fail. Female fans will expect and hope her to be brilliant. If she messes up both could turn against her.

Ifs she's good Wibbs will come around. He's fairly open minded I think.

I don't know her. Whats worth watching?

martingriff

Wibbs wrote: »

I prefer my stories free of clunky and obvious political soapboxing thanks very much. Don't like jingoistic Go America! flics either.

You seen the script

martingriff

Yourself isit wrote: »

She's a brave woman.

Some make fans will be hoping her to fail. Female fans will expect and hope her to be brilliant. If she messes up both could turn against her.

I don't know her. Whats worth watching?

Broadchurch with David Tennant

Doctor DooM

It's actually just what always happens. People upset because the Doctor changing. A load of people just looking forward to the change. Different year, same ****.

Lord TSC

Yourself isit wrote: »

I don't know her. Whats worth watching?

I'll take any chance possible to promote Attack the Block, which was a brilliant movie. Not that she has a stunning part in it, but I do love the movie so I got an excuse :P

Yourself isit

Lord TSC wrote: »

I'll take any chance possible to promote Attack the Block, which was a brilliant movie. Not that she has a stunning part in it, but I do love the movie so I got an excuse :P

Actually I did see series 1 of broadchurch. Didn't recognise the name.

She was indeed fantastic in that. Hope she plays it with a Westy country burr. That would be really radical.

pixelburp

Yourself isit wrote: »

She's a brave woman.

Some male fans will be hoping her to fail. Female fans will expect and hope her to be brilliant. If she messes up both could turn against her.

Ifs she's good Wibbs will come around. He's fairly open minded I think.

I don't know her. Whats worth watching?

Even Wibbs??

Attack the Block is a good flick she was in, though her part was fairly straight all told. A good movie to take in regardless, especially for anyone liking British Sci Fi...

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Yourself isit wrote: »

I don't know her. Whats worth watching?

Adult Life Skills is a recent one that I loved. Probably not to everyone's taste, I've seen it described as "twee", but I really enjoyed it.

She was in an episode of Black Mirror too, if you don't fancy committing to multiple series like Broadchurch.

She's got a new thing coming to BBC fairly soon, I was expecting it earlier this summer, but I'm guessing now they put it back for this very reason. It's a drama about identity theft, I think.

Sonics2k

Wibbs wrote: »

I prefer my stories free of clunky and obvious political soapboxing thanks very much. Don't like jingoistic Go America! flics either.

So you've never actually watched Doctor Who have you?

It's been full of political views for decades now. People were ranting about Captain Jack being bi and proclaimed it the 'death of Doctor Who', same when Smith was given the role of the Doctor.

How about instead of people having a little panic attack because the Doctor is going to be a woman, they actually watch the bloody show.

Let's face it, the show has been going downhill since Smith left, while Capaldi has his moments he never really captivated the audience in the same way.

Honestly, the levels of patheticness coming from this thread has gone from aggravating, to laughable and right around to depressed pity.

Yourself isit

Sonics2k wrote: »

So you've never actually watched Doctor Who have you?

It's been full of political views for decades now. People were ranting about Captain Jack being bi and proclaimed it the 'death of Doctor Who', same when Smith was given the role of the Doctor.

How about instead of people having a little panic attack because the Doctor is going to be a woman, they actually watch the bloody show.

Let's face it, the show has been going downhill since Smith left, while Capaldi has his moments he never really captivated the audience in the same way.

Honestly, the levels of patheticness coming from this thread has gone from aggravating, to laughable and right around to depressed pity.

He definitely has watched Dr Who. In fact he pretty much said what you said about capaldi.

Doctor DooM

STILL not ginger.

B_Wayne

Lord TSC wrote: »

I'll take any chance possible to promote Attack the Block, which was a brilliant movie. Not that she has a stunning part in it, but I do love the movie so I got an excuse :P

This one is a great comedy that I saw her in a month or two back. Enjoyed it a lot and she has plenty of comic timing etc.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4211044/