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Brexit Referendum Superthread

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    #9872
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,827 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    joeysoap wrote: »
    I'd be surprised if the UK put tariffs on foodstuffs coming into the UK. No surer way to ramp up inflation than increase the cost of foodstuffs in the shops.
    WTO rules mean they've no choice unless they have new trade deals in place.
    Sam Russell wrote: »
    They are not self-sufficient in beef. However, Argentina produce lots of cheap beef. (Falkland might be an issue though).

    If NI has a special status, lots of 'Daisy the Cow' and her friends might do a bit of emigrating through the gap in the hedge from Monaghan to Armagh - like the good old days.
    Sam Russell wrote: »
    If they ration beef, our farmers might be in need of black market exports to keep themselves fed.

    Oz and New Zealand would probably step in there. But they'll remember how they were treated when the UK joined the EU. Also unless they do a trade deal with Japan their beef exports will have a 38% tariff, ours won't. And we didn't have to cull our national herd.


    http://www.farmersjournal.ie/
    - Milk production in the EU is to rise 0.7% in 2017
    - Bord Bia steps up beef promotion in Japan


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    #9873
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,072 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It was heartening to hear the Bord Bia person interviewed on SOR today. She agrees with my own POV that in the medium to long term Ireland will be better off because we will have reduced our diminishing but still strong dependence on the British market. And that they are actively planning for that.


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    #9874
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,411 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    WTO rules mean they've no choice unless they have new trade deals in place.



    Oz and New Zealand would probably step in there. But they'll remember how they were treated when the UK joined the EU. Also unless they do a trade deal with Japan their beef exports will have a 38% tariff, ours won't. And we didn't have to cull our national herd.


    http://www.farmersjournal.ie/
    - Milk production in the EU is to rise 0.7% in 2017
    - Bord Bia steps up beef promotion in Japan

    Those with long memories will recall the economic war of the nineteen thirties where the Irish Gov refused to pay the annuity money to the British Gov saying they were due to the Irish Gov (Dev was responsible for this). Britain retaliated by refusing to buy Irish beef. As a consequence, the Irish herd was culled with no market. Come 1939, Britain decided to begin buying Irish beef again because of the war. Unfortunately, they were too late - there was no beef.

    Let us hope history is not repeated.


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    #9875
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    don't confuse not doing something, with not being able to do something.

    Are you honestly saying the UK can be self reliant?


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    #9876
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    LeinsterDub wrote:
    Are you honestly saying the UK can be self reliant?


    In theory they might just be able to produce enough but it would involve a drastic change in diet!


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    #9877
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    First Up wrote: »
    In theory they might just be able to produce enough but it would involve a drastic change in diet!

    And transport


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    #9878
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,827 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Those with long memories will recall the economic war of the nineteen thirties where the Irish Gov refused to pay the annuity money to the British Gov saying they were due to the Irish Gov (Dev was responsible for this). Britain retaliated by refusing to buy Irish beef. As a consequence, the Irish herd was culled with no market. Come 1939, Britain decided to begin buying Irish beef again because of the war. Unfortunately, they were too late - there was no beef.

    Let us hope history is not repeated.
    Back then we didn't have a world wide market.

    More recently we've been able to export beef to markets like the Middle East which the UK couldn't because of politics.

    Also the drop in sterling makes the UK less attractive to our exporters.


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    #9879
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,144 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    We still sell them a lot of Pilgrims Choice.


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    #9880
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,827 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    The repeal bill is already causing issues.
    Any Tory defections and it won't pass.

    And who thinks the DUP will give up devolved powers to a UK government that has done squat on the border issue ?
    Especially when things going south means everything could literally go south as the possibility of border poll can't be ruled out.


    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-40589510
    Labour says it will not support the bill in its current form and is demanding concessions in six areas, including the incorporation of the European Charter of Fundamental Rights into British law.
    ...

    But the Scottish and Welsh governments have to give "legislative consent" to the bill before it can become law - something they have said they are not willing to do.

    In a joint statement, first ministers Nicola Sturgeon and Carwyn Jones, who also met Mr Barnier, described the bill as a "naked power-grab" by Westminster that undermined the principles of devolution.

    They say the bill returns powers from Brussels solely to the UK government and Parliament and "imposes new restrictions" on the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly.


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    #9881
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,827 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Are you honestly saying the UK can be self reliant?
    not for food. Not even close.
    Only 54% is home grown.

    Technically ICI did have a plant making single celled protein "pruteen" (animal feed unless you are are really hungry) that could produce as much as an area the size of Wales covered in soya. But it wasn't cheap as it used natural gas as the feedstock.



    atlas_S1vGKAcS.png

    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    And transport
    They are nominally self sufficient for petroleum products in that export and import values match.

    They are importing LNG from the US too.

    Electricity is a different issue though as they import that from the EU.


    And nurses , http://www.bbc.com/news/education-40581643
    The figures show a sharp decline in those applying to study nursing courses - down 19%


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    #9882
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    wes wrote: »
    And who thinks the DUP will give up devolved powers to a UK government that has done squat on the border issue ?

    What do you mean Wes? The DUP are hoping Brexit will help reverse the soft unification of Ireland, living standards in the north be damned.

    When I hear of Britain being self-sufficient my mind goes to this for some reason:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35NpLveVZDg


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    #9883
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Those with long memories will recall the economic war of the nineteen thirties where the Irish Gov refused to pay the annuity money to the British Gov saying they were due to the Irish Gov (Dev was responsible for this). Britain retaliated by refusing to buy Irish beef. As a consequence, the Irish herd was culled with no market. Come 1939, Britain decided to begin buying Irish beef again because of the war. Unfortunately, they were too late - there was no beef.

    Let us hope history is not repeated.

    Long memories, I think you mean ling lives?

    A 1930 trade war is relevant to a discussion about Brexit in 2019?

    This thread really has become an echo chamber from the usual anti British little Irelanders.


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    #9884
    Thomas__
    Closed Accounts Posts: 618 ✭✭✭Thomas__


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    wes wrote: »
    And who thinks the DUP will give up devolved powers to a UK government that has done squat on the border issue ?

    What do you mean Wes? The DUP are hoping Brexit will help reverse the soft unification of Ireland, living standards in the north be damned.

    When I hear of Britain being self-sufficient my mind goes to this for some reason:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35NpLveVZDg

    That´s the spirit of the many Brexiteers, stuck in the old times, blind for the future and they probably believe that it was all funny and "a jolly good war". With what is now going on the Brit politics, their govt is on the best path to mock their fallen from both world wars and the cause of democracy. Making it an act of hypocrisy to wear a poppy come remembrance day.


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    #9885
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Fratton Fred wrote:
    A 1930 trade war is relevant to a discussion about Brexit in 2019?

    Oh come on Fred. You think a 1940's war is ever far from the thoughts of the Brexiteers?


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    #9886
    ambro25
    Registered Users Posts: 5,994 ✭✭✭ambro25


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Long memories, I think you mean ling lives?

    A 1930 trade war is relevant to a discussion about Brexit in 2019?

    This thread really has become an echo chamber from the usual anti British little Irelanders.
    I agree that 'glib' references to 1930s and 1940s are hardly constructive here...

    ...that said however, considering the socio-economic consequences which the UK is facing from the worst possible forms of Brexit, the parallel is not completely without merit.

    I believe that this whole Brexit thing, when all is said and done and its effects percolate fully down to the individual level across the length and breadth of the country, will leave a mark on the collective British psyche, far worse than Thatcherism, the miners' strike and similar 'peacetime' divisive occurrences ever did or could.

    It will be, and remain, a factor of intense personal and political division for decades, never less so than between older and younger generations.

    Regardless of whether the UK actually Brexits or not in the end (because either outcome will have far-reaching consequences).


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    #9887
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    What do you mean Wes? The DUP are hoping Brexit will help reverse the soft unification of Ireland, living standards in the north be damned.

    When I hear of Britain being self-sufficient my mind goes to this for some reason:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35NpLveVZDg

    I didn't mention the DUP, something gone wrong with the quote there.


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    #9888
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    ambro25 wrote: »
    I agree that 'glib' references to 1930s and 1940s are hardly constructive here...

    ...that said however, considering the socio-economic consequences which the UK is facing from the worst possible forms of Brexit, the parallel is not completely without merit.

    I believe that this whole Brexit thing, when all is said and done and its effects percolate fully down to the individual level across the length and breadth of the country, will leave a mark on the collective British psyche, far worse than Thatcherism, the miners' strike and similar 'peacetime' divisive occurrences ever did or could.

    It will be, and remain, a factor of intense personal and political division for decades, never less so than between older and younger generations.

    Regardless of whether the UK actually Brexits or not in the end (because either outcome will have far-reaching consequences).

    I agree there are very deep divisions in the UK at the moment and Brexit is causing a needless amount of economic and political unrest.

    I think we are still some way from seeing U-Boats blockading the channel though :D


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    #9889
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    This thread really has become an echo chamber from the usual anti British little Irelanders.
    To be fair Fred there are several posters like myself in this thread who would (prior to Brexit) have borne no malice towards the UK and could have even conceived closer ties with the country. Relations between our countries had never been better. Brexit has certainly changed for the worse how I feel about the UK.

    The UK press and political class have lazily blamed the EU for everything, even controllable immigration and controllable EU immigration at that! The UK never even tried to apply the rules as applied by Germany, Belgium, France etc. that prevent benefits and health tourism of EU nationals. Germany tells newly arrived Brits to go home after 3 months on welfare. The UK simply never did. Even if there are few EU scroungers (which I believe to be the case) in the UK, it would have been an end to the Daily Mail's endless protests about this issue had the UK simply enforced these regulations.


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    #9890
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    murphaph wrote: »
    To be fair Fred there are several posters like myself in this thread who would (prior to Brexit) have borne no malice towards the UK and could have even conceived closer ties with the country. Relations between our countries had never been better. Brexit has certainly changed for the worse how I feel about the UK.

    The UK press and political class have lazily blamed the EU for everything, even controllable immigration and controllable EU immigration at that! The UK never even tried to apply the rules as applied by Germany, Belgium, France etc. that prevent benefits and health tourism of EU nationals. Germany tells newly arrived Brits to go home after 3 months on welfare. The UK simply never did. Even if there are few EU scroungers (which I believe to be the case) in the UK, it would have been an end to the Daily Mail's endless protests about this issue had the UK simply enforced these regulations.

    every country in europe blames the eu, that's why Junckers said this https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/01/stop-bashing-the-eu-jean-claude-juncker-tells-european-leaders

    we blamed them over here for forcing us to bail out German bond holders and enforcing water charges and property taxes on us.


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    #9891
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,130 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    every country in europe blames the eu, that's why Junckers said this https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/01/stop-bashing-the-eu-jean-claude-juncker-tells-european-leaders

    we blamed them over here for forcing us to bail out German bond holders and enforcing water charges and property taxes on us.
    Yes. But we have the maturity to recognise when we're venting and blowing off steam. We don't proceed to leave the EU because we're unhappy about water charges.


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    #9892
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,465 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Ok, this thread is nearing the 10,000 post mark so I am closing it.

    New thread here.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



This discussion has been closed.
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