Brexit Referendum Superthread

Enzokk

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Interesting proposal by Verhofstadt, suggesting NI voters could be added to the Irish electoral roll for the European Parliament - unsurprisingly, Donaldson is far from happy!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/12/eu-warns-brexit-talks-could-fail-after-johnsons-go-whistle-remarks

That's funny logic from the DUP, the Good Friday Agreement is sacred when it comes to the EU somehow (NI citizens that will probably be affected by EU policies to keep the GFA going will have no say in who represents them at the same EU), but making a deal with the ruling party to secure their support is in no way a breach of the GFA.

Donaldson said the 10 DUP MPs at Westminster who currently shore up the minority Conservative government would insist to the prime minister that Verhostad’s proposal be rejected out of hand in Brexit negotiations.

“His idea would be a breach of the Good Friday agreement which keeps all constitutional change within strand one of that agreement, namely only within Northern Ireland.

“This idea would also upset the delicate constitutional balance we have worked out here and would endanger the peace process,” the Lagan Valley MP added.

Quote is from your link.

An Claidheamh wrote: »

A Belgian is doing more for the rights of Northern nationalists than any Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil and Labour politician.

Unbelievable.

To be fair the GFA states the they cannot interfere and has to stay neutral. It is up to their elected officials in Stormont and MPs to fight for their rights. It is easier for the EU to get involved in this.

123shooter wrote: »

Yeah just like you pay for your own water (water charges):D That one went down well didnt it?:D

Brexit man, deal with Brexit. You have no argument if you keep having to refer to local politics. The last one to do that, Maryishere, also kept talking about the local Irish issues that had nothing to do with Brexit and it adds nothing to the conversation. What does Irish water charges have to do with the EU/UK Brexit deal?

Billy86

A Little Pony wrote: »

The Irish Republic is an important trade partner with the United Kingdom. It is very important it remains that way post Brexit once we leave.

It's more important to Ireland to conduct trade with whomever will benefit us most, and in accordance with the rest of the most powerful trading bloc in the world that we are a part of and benefit greatly from. We need to put our own interests before that of the UK.

123shooter

Billy86 wrote: »

And all he said was that they still have some months to go before finalising it all not that the UK could jump in and have currently banned beef on Japanese shelves in the next few weeks/months. So it appears your assertion was little more than wishful thinking, as you also can't come up with much the UK could offer Japan that would make them immediately drop all the work they have put into this deal for several years in order to negotiate with Theresa May & co. who have shown themselves volatile and liable to threaten to just walk away from everything at the drop of a hat.

He said so far it had taken 4 years and 3 months and when asked how long he wouldnt't say but was then asked if it could take just as long as so far or a little yes he said mmmmmmmmm. So it could take another 4 years and 3 months or less is what i understood from that.

An Claidheamh

123shooter wrote: »

Were we?





If Corbyn is there yes which is why all the shaninigans.

But if the UK doesn't pay then simply your banana republic is so fecked its unreal.

Ukippers and the rest of the cast of Carry on up the Khyber seemed to never shut up about it.


123shooter, if you don't pay the 100 billion, you won't be allowed leave the Eu you plank!
If you don't pay it's the status quo ffs!


At least our country will still exist in a few years.

Yours is falling apart.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

ancapailldorcha

123shooter banned for low quality posting and trolling.

An Claidheamh

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Ukippers and the rest of the cast of Carry on up the Khyber seemed to never shut up about it.


123shooter, if you don't pay the 100 billion, you won't be allowed leave the Eu you plank!
If you don't pay it's the status quo ffs!


At least our country will still exist in a few years.

Yours is falling apart.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Eh they're out in 2 years whether it's paid or not.

Fratton Fred

First Up wrote: »

Interesting idea. An A380 has about 4 million components, supplied by over 1,500 companies in more than 30 countries. I'll bet HM Revenue would relish the task of deciding how to apply tax exemption to that little lot.

But are you forgetting about free movement? That was actually the issue Airbus raised.

I'm not forgetting about free movement at all. I work for a US multinational (like a lot if people in Ireland) free movement isn't an issue with our company at all.

So they source from over 30 countries and Brexit means wing production will get moved out of the UK, one of the companies main bases?

Murph's opinion, like a lot of the opinions on this thread, are no more than what people would like to see happen rather than what is likely to happen.

A Little Pony

Billy86 wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

The Irish Republic is an important trade partner with the United Kingdom. It is very important it remains that way post Brexit once we leave.

It's more important to Ireland to conduct trade with whomever will benefit us most, and in accordance with the rest of the most powerful trading bloc in the world that we are a part of and benefit greatly from. We need to put our own interests before that of the UK.

The Irish Republic benefits hugely from trade from the UK. You surely recognize the importance?

Billy86

A Little Pony wrote: »

The Irish Republic benefits hugely from trade from the UK. You surely recognize the importance?

Not even remotely as close to how much we benefit from EU membership and trading as a part of it, it's not even comparable really. It's not our job to act against our own interests just to benefit the UK.

First Up

Fratton Fred wrote:

I'm not forgetting about free movement at all. I work for a US multinational (like a lot if people in Ireland) free movement isn't an issue with our company at all.

Its a big issue for Airbus, which is what we are talking about.

Fratton Fred wrote:

So they source from over 30 countries and Brexit means wing production will get moved out of the UK, one of the companies main bases?

That's what the COO of Airbus said may happen if free movement is stopped.

Fratton Fred wrote:

Murph's opinion, like a lot of the opinions on this thread, are no more than what people would like to see happen rather than what is likely to happen.

I'm not talking about Murph. I'm talking about the quote from Airbus in the Sunday Times article.

Nate--IRL--

A Little Pony wrote: »

The Irish Republic benefits hugely from trade from the UK. You surely recognize the importance?

Nobody is disputing that, thankfully it only accounts for about 13% of our exports, behind Belgium. So, while it's going to hurt, Brexit won't be fatal to Ireland.

Nate

Junkyard Tom

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The UK government "could" make aircraft manufacture exempt from tax and Airbus move all manufacturing there.

That has about as much chance of happening as Buckingham Palace being moved to Berlin. Airbus is far too big an operation to move to any one European country and, as a consequence, it has to play the political game.

I'm guessing Airbus is so woven into the UK's aerospace industry that it would be economically stupid to even attempt to withdraw it.

As an aside, the first ever US manufactured Airbus aircraft rolled off a production line in Alabama in the US recently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnCeuB9qpHE

Fratton Fred

First Up wrote: »

Its a big issue for Airbus, which is what we are talking about.


That's what the COO of Airbus said may happen if free movement is stopped.


I'm not talking about Murph. I'm talking about the quote from Airbus in the Sunday Times article.

The COO said their demands in free movement of people. That may not necessarily be the same as free movement of people the eu has.

I would imagine they are more concerned about project teams working for set periods of time in another country, I doubt they are too worried about a Lithuanian being able to move over for a few months to earn enough cash labouring to out a deposit down on their first mortgage.

First Up

Fratton Fred wrote:

I would imagine they are more concerned about project teams working for set periods of time in another country, I doubt they are too worried about a Lithuanian being able to move over for a few months to earn enough cash labouring to out a deposit down on their first mortgage.

They are concerned about their technical personnel being able to go where they need to be in their production system, whenever they need. That might be for a few hours, a few days or longer.

Anything that causes delay or problems with that is unacceptable in a complex trans-national operation like Airbus.

murphaph

Fred the British public doesn't give a damn about what Brexit will do to us. We are collateral damage to most of them.

I have lost all faith in a country I once respected. Ireland needs to now do everything in its power to mitigate against the United Kingdom's actions but this does not mean I want the UK economy to implode as that would be quite disastrous for Ireland.

Fratton Fred

First Up wrote: »

They are concerned about their technical personnel being able to go where they need to be in their production system, whenever they need. That might be for a few hours, a few days or longer.

Anything that causes delay or problems with that is unacceptable in a complex trans-national operation like Airbus.

So pretty much the same as every other multinational then.

First Up

Fratton Fred wrote:

So pretty much the same as every other multinational then.

Yes but few others have such complex, inter-dependent facilities spread across so many countries.

First Up

But Airbus in Wales is not the only UK operation vulnerable to supply chain issues after Brexit. There's hundreds and its a consequence of Brexit that seems to be only now dawning on some in government - because the companies are screaming blue murder at Whitehall.

Capt'n Midnight

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The COO said their demands in free movement of people. That may not necessarily be the same as free movement of people the eu has.

I would imagine they are more concerned about project teams working for set periods of time in another country, I doubt they are too worried about a Lithuanian being able to move over for a few months to earn enough cash labouring to out a deposit down on their first mortgage.

So project teams on fixed contracts, no family, and no guarantee they won't be sent home tomorrow.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40579769

"We want EU citizens in Britain to have the same rights as British citizens who live in the EU," he told a news conference.

That would require the ECJ to be the "ultimate guarantor" of those rights, he said, because Britain could simply change its laws later, creating uncertainty.

UK law also imposes restrictions in areas such as reuniting families across borders, he said - something which was not applied to UK citizens living in Spain, for example.

Fratton Fred

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

So project teams on fixed contracts, no family, and no guarantee they won't be sent home tomorrow.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40579769

So Barnier is speaking on behalf of Airbus now?

steddyeddy

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Interesting proposal by Verhofstadt, suggesting NI voters could be added to the Irish electoral roll for the European Parliament - unsurprisingly, Donaldson is far from happy!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/12/eu-warns-brexit-talks-could-fail-after-johnsons-go-whistle-remarks

What's it got to do with Donaldson? They're Irish citizens. I can't see the UK vetoing a good deal over Donaldson.

Fratton Fred

First Up wrote: »

Yes but few others have such complex, inter-dependent facilities spread across so many countries.

Boeing seem to manage OK.

International manufacturing does happen outside of the eu you know.

View

A Little Pony wrote: »

123shooter wrote: »

An Claidheamh wrote: »

And yet you Brits were the ones so concerned about us bailing out European banks, giving away our money to Europe?

Were we?

You will pay the 100 billion and you know it.

If Corbyn is there yes which is why all the shaninigans.

But if the UK doesn't pay then simply your banana republic is so fecked its unreal.

The Irish Republic is an important trade partner with the United Kingdom. It is very important it remains that way post Brexit once we leave.

That may not be an option given the stated position of the UK government to leave the EU custom's union and Single Market as they exit the EU.

Given the rhetoric out of London, we have to assume that we MAY face tariffs, associated customs paperwork and diverging technical standards on all our trade with the UK (including with NI) and that COULD result in the halving of our trade with the UK.

That means we need to focus on replacing that potential loss of UK trade with rapidly increased trade - both exports and imports - with the rest of the EU/EEA.

Enzokk

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Boeing seem to manage OK.

International manufacturing does happen outside of the eu you know.

Are you advocating that Airbus UK be sold to another company and that company do business with Airbus? Because that is how Boeing does it, they have partners that helps them with components from other countries for any work they do not do themselves. Airbus themselves build their own wings in the UK, its not the same thing.

First Up

Fratton Fred wrote:

Boeing seem to manage OK.

Possibly because all Boeing's production facilities are in the US.

steddyeddy

Quick question: why do they allow Boris Johnson to vent any opinion on the EU? He's as thick as two short planks and makes things worse every time he talks.

Water John

Boris is lots of things, but not thick. He knew well where he was going.

steddyeddy

Water John wrote: »

Boris is lots of things, but not thick. He knew well where he was going.

There is literally nothing about the man that says otherwise. Frankie Boyle described him as a cross between a brain injury and an unmade bed.

Leonard Hofstadter

A Little Pony wrote: »

The Irish Republic is an important trade partner with the United Kingdom. It is very important it remains that way post Brexit once we leave.

Indeed it is. That's why it's our second biggest export market after Belgium, which you'll note is an EU country. Indeed, while the UK takes about 12% of our exports (a very large amount I'm sure you'll agree), the remaining EU 26 takes over 40% of ours... so while the UK is important, the other 26 are more than three times as important.

The Government has, quite correctly, decided that our best interests lie by being part of the EU 27 not siding with the delusional Tory Government, who, if BoJo's House of Commons speech is anything to go by, still haven't a clue how this thing is going to work.

Of course we'd like a close trading relationship with the UK. I have a vested interest in it being a UK resident myself, I certainly do not want to see the UK do badly. Unlike say the Shinners, I have no chip on my shoulder against the British, the vast majority of them are as nice a bunch of people as you could meet anywhere and it is in everyone's interests that we keep a close relationship with the UK even once Brexit is complete. Nevertheless, it is clear that the UK is sleepwalking itself into economic suicide with their hard Brexit (despite the general election) and this nonsense by Boris and the other deluded clowns in the Government, aided and abetted by the hard right press.

Capt'n Midnight

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Boeing seem to manage OK.

International manufacturing does happen outside of the eu you know.

AFAIK the relevant tariffs are well below the WTO levels because of trade deals