Brexit Referendum Superthread

murphaph

Water John wrote: »

Just how will the manufacture of Airbus, continue?

I suspect the existing products will continue to be made on Deeside until they go end of life but I would expect that Airbus will not start production of any new lines there. I'd expect a new facility will be built for new lines within the EU27.

Fratton Fred

murphaph wrote: »

I suspect the existing products will continue to be made on Deeside until they go end of life but I would expect that Airbus will not start production of any new lines there. I'd expect a new facility will be built for new lines within the EU27.

That is purely your own opinion.

They'd have to move design and manufacture of fuel systems as well.

Aircraft manufacture is a global business though, so whilst this adds to the complications, it isn't insurmountable.

It could also put UK orders at risk.

whatstherush

Fratton Fred wrote: »

That is purely your own opinion.

They'd have to move design and manufacture of fuel systems as well.

Aircraft manufacture is a global business though, so whilst this adds to the complications, it isn't insurmountable.

It could also put UK orders at risk.

Purely his opinion is a bit misleading Fred, considering Airbus said the following.

"
Airbus (AIR.PA) could move production of new aircraft models out of Britain if the European plane-maker's "non-negotiable" demands over the free movement of people and trade tariffs are not delivered in upcoming Brexit talks, the Sunday Times reported."

http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-airbus-idUKKBN19200C

I'll give you, airbus's 'could' vs Murph's 'expects' but you can't say it's purely his opinion.

Enzokk

Fratton Fred wrote: »

That is purely your own opinion.

They'd have to move design and manufacture of fuel systems as well.

Aircraft manufacture is a global business though, so whilst this adds to the complications, it isn't insurmountable.

It could also put UK orders at risk.

Airbus will look at the deal that looks to be negotiated before accessing whether to move production or not. They need to start returning more value to their shareholders when you look at Boeing and if there are significant costs added to the manufacturing of components they will move it out of the country. I am sure other countries will welcome those workers currently in the UK with open arms if the production is moved to different countries.

Professor Moriarty

11.7.17 - Boris Johnson: "...I think that the sums that I have seen that they propose to demand from this country seem to me to be extortionate and I think ‘to go whistle’ is an entirely appropriate expression.”

12.7.17 - Michel Barnier: "I’m not hearing any whistling, just a clock ticking."

Nody

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

11.7.17 - Boris Johnson: "...I think that the sums that I have seen that they propose to demand from this country seem to me to be extortionate and I think ‘to go whistle’ is an entirely appropriate expression.”

12.7.17 - Michel Barnier: "I’m not hearing any whistling, just a clock ticking."

And after that the howling when what ever number is agreed from the British rightwing pro Brexit at all cost press gets hold of it.

I honestly think that cost will be among the biggest political hurdles for May to get through (while other decisions will have more actual impact a money amount to be paid is simply to tangible not to be used as a battering ram).

Professor Moriarty

Nody wrote: »

And after that the howling when what ever number is agreed from the British rightwing pro Brexit at all cost press gets hold of it.

I honestly think that cost will be among the biggest political hurdles for May to get through (while other decisions will have more actual impact a money amount to be paid is simply to tangible not to be used as a battering ram).

Agreed. Whatever about the press here in Ireland, the British press is malignant and deceitful. They really do subvert democracy in Britain. Any politician who doesn't 'stand up to Johnny Foreigner' on the payment will be painted as weak and traitorous.

Thomas__

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Nody wrote: »

And after that the howling when what ever number is agreed from the British rightwing pro Brexit at all cost press gets hold of it.

I honestly think that cost will be among the biggest political hurdles for May to get through (while other decisions will have more actual impact a money amount to be paid is simply to tangible not to be used as a battering ram).

Agreed. Whatever about the press here in Ireland, the British press is malignant and deceitful. They really do subvert democracy in Britain. Any politician who doesn't 'stand up to Johnny Foreigner' on the payment will be painted as weak and traitorous.

I don´t have the slightest doubt about that. Just to add, people like Mrs Miller who stood up for taking efforts to let the law have its way will be in this together, the target of the hatred by the right-wing losers, cos losers they will be in spite the fact that they got what they wanted, the Brexit.

Professor Moriarty

Thomas__ wrote: »

I don´t have the slightest doubt about that. Just to add, people like Mrs Miller who stood up for taking efforts to let the law have its way will be in this together, the target of the hatred by the right-wing losers, cos losers they will be in spite the fact that they got what they wanted, the Brexit.

The parallels with Trump are obvious. An electorate manipulated into believing that they are being short-changed and it's someone else's fault. So they vote for the elite on the basis that the elite will sort it out. Because reasons.

It's their own fault. If you are educated enough to read and you choose to read and believe lies then you deserve what you get.

srsly78

Do the Brits really expect the EU to keep paying British officials pensions after brexit? That's one of the obligations but the tabloids will never point this out.

Sam Russell

srsly78 wrote: »

Do the Brits really expect the EU to keep paying British officials pensions after brexit? That's one of the obligations but the tabloids will never point this out.

It is a little broader than that - just on the pensions. They are required to pay their share of ALL EU pensions, whether for British citizens or not. The 'unelected bureaucrats' of the EU are Civil Servants, and do the work the UK and other member states would have to hire to do that work, whether it is to negotiate FTA with third world countries, sort out the fishing quotas, or decide roaming charges across the EU. To restrict it to just British citizens would be wrong.

There are other long term obligations but a definite list has not been published.

I do not think it has occurred to the Brxiteers that they will have to hire many many Civil Servants to duplicate the work done currently by the permanent staff at the EU.

murphaph

srsly78 wrote: »

Do the Brits really expect the EU to keep paying British officials pensions after brexit? That's one of the obligations but the tabloids will never point this out.

In fact if the UK only had to pay the pensions of British officials it would be a great deal for them as the UK is underrepresented (mostly due to poor language skills).

Fratton Fred

whatstherush wrote: »

Purely his opinion is a bit misleading Fred, considering Airbus said the following.

"
Airbus (AIR.PA) could move production of new aircraft models out of Britain if the European plane-maker's "non-negotiable" demands over the free movement of people and trade tariffs are not delivered in upcoming Brexit talks, the Sunday Times reported."

http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-airbus-idUKKBN19200C

I'll give you, airbus's 'could' vs Murph's 'expects' but you can't say it's purely his opinion.

Yes, it is purely his opinion.

The UK government "could" make aircraft manufacture exempt from tax and Airbus move all manufacturing there.

What Airbus are doing US making a "don't forget about me" statement.

Airbus are an important company to the leading economies in Europe, their needs will betaken in to consideration. The only potentially difficult scenario would be s French power grab, but it is unlikely as it would most likely lead to the UK pulling out of future military development and orders.

123shooter

srsly78 wrote: »

Do the Brits really expect the EU to keep paying British officials pensions after brexit? That's one of the obligations but the tabloids will never point this out.

No. The likes of Kinnock and the rest who have done nothing but lose all their life, should not get a penny. They should live on the state pension as they expect all others to do.

Why should the UK pay the EU another penny they have paid enough. Why dont you in Ireland put your hand in your pocket for a change, its about time you paid rather than taking.

Chips Lovell

Ireland is a net contributor to the EU.

Nody

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Ireland is a net contributor to the EU.

As of 2009 or something like that if I recall correctly; it's quite a recent thing and not on a lifetime basis to date as I recall. Not that it will matter either way and I'm fully in support for fixing the silly rules around EU pensions for life either way.

Billy86

123shooter wrote: »

Oh I see so you have paid in more than you have taken out?..........Can I borrow your calculator.

Hi, asked the other day but you may not have seen it re the Japan/EU deal - what can Britain offer Japan that will make Japan stop looking towards the EU and shift their priorities over to Britain enough to get that deal done before any potential EU one?

123shooter

Billy86 wrote: »

Hi, asked the other day but you may not have seen it re the Japan/EU deal - what can Britain offer Japan that will make Japan stop looking towards the EU and shift their priorities over to Britain enough to get that deal done before any potential EU one?

Dont know what you are on about but i just quoted what the Japan ambassador said on a BBC (anti brexit) interview. So perhaps you should ask him?

Chips Lovell

123shooter wrote: »

Oh I see so you have paid in more than you have taken out?

No, but that wasn't what you asked.

123shooter wrote: »

Why dont you in Ireland put your hand in your pocket for a change, its about time you paid rather than taking.

I was pointing out that that time had already come.

FrancieBrady

123shooter wrote: »

Oh I see so you have paid in more than you have taken out?..........Can I borrow your calculator.

Looking at the contribution underlines that you don't really understand what you are talking about. You should have a read of this - https://www.ft.com/content/202a60c0-cfd8-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377?mhq5j=e1

For almost half a century, Britain has benefited from greater openness to world markets, which has fostered economic dynamism. Economists have demonstrated that the main cause of that change was membership of the EU, which brought with it gains from trade, foreign direct investment, competition and innovation.


Warwick University’s Prof Crafts says no one can know exactly how much the EU directly benefited Britain, but a 10 per cent rise in prosperity is a reasonable estimate. “That dominates any reasonable idea of what the membership fee is,” he concludes.

123shooter

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Looking at the contribution underlines that you don't really understand what you are talking about. You should have a read of this - https://www.ft.com/content/202a60c0-cfd8-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377?mhq5j=e1

No you dont understand............I said no to the EU or anybody paying Kinnock and the likes EU pensions, they should live on a state one.

And the UK should not give the EU a penny.........end of.........period. And you lot will have to pay what is missing.

So dont try and twist and muddy the conversation.

And this is really the crux of the matter. No matter how much you gee each other up on here about only the EU can win and Britain must lose when really it's only about the UK people steering their own destiny. The real problem is your, Ireland. Because you know there will be no more EU money and it's going to cost you all each and every one of you a packet just to replace what the UK isnt going to be paying every year .

And it terrifies you.

First Up

Fratton Fred wrote:

The UK government "could" make aircraft manufacture exempt from tax and Airbus move all manufacturing there.

Interesting idea. An A380 has about 4 million components, supplied by over 1,500 companies in more than 30 countries. I'll bet HM Revenue would relish the task of deciding how to apply tax exemption to that little lot.

But are you forgetting about free movement? That was actually the issue Airbus raised.

FrancieBrady

123shooter wrote: »

No you dont understand............I said no to the EU or anybody paying Kinnock and the likes EU pensions, they should live on a state one.

And the UK should not give the EU a penny.........end of.........period. And you lot will have to pay what is missing.

So don't try and twist and muddy the conversation.

You said it was about time we 'paid instead of taking' which is as I have stated a simplistic way of looking at it.
The UK got plenty back for their contribution (which they knew they would have to make just as we knew we would one day be net contributors) if you look at what happened to the UK after they joined.

Billy86

123shooter wrote: »

Dont know what you are on about but i just quoted what the Japan ambassador said on a BBC (anti brexit) interview. So perhaps you should ask him?

Here you go. You hadn't posted in the thread since then so I figured you may have missed it:

Billy86 wrote: »

123shooter wrote: »

I dont know they would be dealing with one person there and then and not having to deal with someone who has to go back and confer with others before they get an answer.

What can Britain offer Japan that will make Japan stop looking towards the EU and shift their priorities over to Britain enough to get that deal done before any potential EU one?

Your idea in that same post that British beef could be on sale in Japan as part of an agreed trade deal within the next few short months from your post was already debunked as British beef is banned in Japan. That's all that your post really went on, it could take several months for them to tie up the EU deal that they have been working on for several years. Any my question was largely in response to this - what is it that the UK (particularly with so many uncertainties) can offer Japan that will make them drop everything so quickly with the EU?

An Ciarraioch

Interesting proposal by Verhofstadt, suggesting NI voters could be added to the Irish electoral roll for the European Parliament - unsurprisingly, Donaldson is far from happy!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/12/eu-warns-brexit-talks-could-fail-after-johnsons-go-whistle-remarks

An Claidheamh

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Interesting proposal by Verhofstadt, suggesting NI voters could be added to the Irish electoral roll for the European Parliament - unsurprisingly, Donaldson is far from happy!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/12/eu-warns-brexit-talks-could-fail-after-johnsons-go-whistle-remarks

A Belgian is doing more for the rights of Northern nationalists than any Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil and Labour politician.

Unbelievable.

123shooter

An Claidheamh wrote: »

And yet you Brits were the ones so concerned about us bailing out European banks, giving away our money to Europe?

Were we?

You will pay the 100 billion and you know it.

If Corbyn is there yes which is why all the shaninigans.

But if the UK doesn't pay then simply your banana republic is so fecked its unreal.

FrancieBrady

123shooter wrote: »

Yeah just like you pay for your own water (water charges):D That one went down well didnt it?:D

Can you link to anyone reacting to paying our contribution?
I am totally unaware of any negativity, so I am all eyes for your links.

A Little Pony

123shooter wrote: »

An Claidheamh wrote: »

And yet you Brits were the ones so concerned about us bailing out European banks, giving away our money to Europe?

Were we?

You will pay the 100 billion and you know it.

If Corbyn is there yes which is why all the shaninigans.

But if the UK doesn't pay then simply your banana republic is so fecked its unreal.

The Irish Republic is an important trade partner with the United Kingdom. It is very important it remains that way post Brexit once we leave.

Billy86

123shooter wrote: »

I don't know ask the ambassador, he was the one talking about it.

And all he said was that they still have some months to go before finalising it all not that the UK could jump in and have currently banned beef on Japanese shelves in the next few weeks/months. So it appears your assertion was little more than wishful thinking, as you also can't come up with much the UK could offer Japan that would make them immediately drop all the work they have put into this deal for several years in order to negotiate with Theresa May & co. who have shown themselves volatile and liable to threaten to just walk away from everything at the drop of a hat.