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All Ireland SHC Final (formerly SHC thread) - READ MOD NOTE POST #1

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  • #1262
    0byme75341jo28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,571 ✭✭✭0byme75341jo28


    Funny to see people saying Clare's all Ireland win in 2013 was a result of poor standard, you could say the same about Kilkenny in 2007/2008, amongst others, but no one would dare seeing as a traditionally strong county was the winner..


  • #1263
    munsterlegend
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,623 ✭✭✭munsterlegend


    Miriam Polite Chimp wrote: »
    Funny to see people saying Clare's all Ireland win in 2013 was a result of poor standard, you could say the same about Kilkenny in 2007/2008, amongst others, but no one would dare seeing as a traditionally strong county was the winner..

    Yeah but Kilkenny went on to win how many more? Clare's record since 2013 is very poor which does raise the question did they get lucky to meet a fairly average cork team in the final? Management was blamed up to this year but same defensive problems and bad decision making seem again to be evident this year.


  • #1264
    dubcat51
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 731 ✭✭✭dubcat51


    Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »
    If you can find any "hatred on here towards Cork" before the above post by Golden Miller, please point it out.
    Long way for cork to go before kk play 2nd fiddle.as for cork producing better players you need to get off whatever your on.


  • #1265
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,286 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    munsterlegend wrote: »
    Yeah but Kilkenny went on to win how many more? Clare's record since 2013 is very poor which does raise the question did they get lucky to meet a fairly average cork team in the final? Management was blamed up to this year but same defensive problems and bad decision making seem again to be evident this year.


    With the right style of hurling i honestly believe Clare can be every bit as good and as skilful as any team in the country. Like Waterford though, theyve been reduced to this diluted version of themselves with coaches who fear hammerings and have no confidence within their group of players to go out and hold their own.


  • #1266
    siobhan1983
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46 ✭siobhan1983


    Is it an open draw for the winners of the two hurling quarter finals and who they face in the semis or do we know the scenario


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  • #1267
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,286 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    siobhan1983 wrote: »
    Is it an open draw for the winners of the two hurling quarter finals and who they face in the semis or do we know the scenario

    Wexford cant play Galway if they win
    Clare cant play Cork if they win
    But the other two can play either one or the other if they win.


  • #1268
    munsterlegend
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,623 ✭✭✭munsterlegend


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    With the right style of hurling i honestly believe Clare can be every bit as good and as skilful as any team in the country. Like Waterford though, theyve been reduced to this diluted version of themselves with coaches who fear hammerings and have no confidence within their group of players to go out and hold their own.

    They have some very good hurlers but they haven't really progressed since 2013 and concede high scores through indiscipline. I can see Tipp causing some
    damage to that back line and another early exit for them.


  • #1269
    thelad95
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,812 ✭✭✭thelad95


    People saying it's a cracking draw but in all honesty I think it'll be a poor afternoon of hurling. Tipp will be too strong for Clare and Waterford will beat Wexford without getting out of second gear.


  • #1270
    washman3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Wexford cant play Galway if they win
    Clare cant play Cork if they win
    But the other two can play either one or the other if they win.

    Are you sure of this TG.?
    Reason i'm asking is some years back we played Waterford in a Munster final and again in the AI semi


  • #1271
    Realt Dearg Sec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,175 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec


    dubcat51 wrote: »
    Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »
    If you can find any "hatred on here towards Cork" before the above post by Golden Miller, please point it out.
    Long way for cork to go before kk play 2nd fiddle.as for cork producing better players you need to get off whatever your on.
    I don't know why you're quoting me there...


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  • #1272
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,286 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    washman3 wrote: »
    Are you sure of this TG.?
    Reason i'm asking is some years back we played Waterford in a Munster final and again in the AI semi

    you may be thinking of 2008?. in 2008 we played Clare in the Munster final and Waterford in the semi final. Waterford were hammered in the first round of that championship by Clare down in Limerick but went through the back door route after ousting Justin after a clandestine squad meeting the following week

    in 2009 we played Waterford in the Munster final alright in Thurles for the 125 commemoration but we met Limerick in the Semi and absolutely hammered them in Croker. Kilkenny beat Waterford in the other semi. Waterford beat Galway in the quarter that year

    2010, Cork beat us in PuC and we came through the backdoor and met Waterford in the All ireland semi final. Waterford had beaten Cork after a replay that year.


  • #1273
    Realt Dearg Sec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,175 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec


    Miriam Polite Chimp wrote: »
    Funny to see people saying Clare's all Ireland win in 2013 was a result of poor standard, you could say the same about Kilkenny in 2007/2008, amongst others, but no one would dare seeing as a traditionally strong county was the winner..
    "No one would dare"? What are you talking about? We had to win two or three more before people would shut up saying it.

    I actually don't think Clare got a soft all Ireland simply because they don't exist. But it took years of winning before that kk team was vindicated in the eyes of the usual begrudgers (and we have a few on this thread now changing the narrative in the most hilariously disingenuous way possible), so I presume Clare will have to do the same to shut up the same clowns.


  • #1274
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,286 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »
    "No one would dare"? What are you talking about? We had to win two or three more before people would shut up saying it.

    I actually don't think Clare got a soft all Ireland simply because they don't exist. But it took years of winning before that kk team was vindicated in the eyes of the usual begrudgers (and we have a few on this thread now changing the narrative in the most hilariously disingenuous way possible), so I presume Clare will have to do the same to shut up the same clowns.


    Kilkenny were still the best team in the country that year but just seemed to lose form at the real wrong time. Cork beat Kilkenny in the quarters and Kilkenny had previously come through a tough game vs ourselves on an energy sapping roasting hot day in Nowlan. Waterford very very nearly caught Kilkenny and that game bizarrely sealed Michael Ryans (now of Westmeath) fate.

    i think Clare were good enough to beat Kilkenny that year on the basis of hitting a patch of form whereas both Tipp and Kilkenny dropped off. Maybe the league took too much out of them? Had the draw been kinder to ourselves perhaps we could have went the whole way? Other then Kilkenny, i think we would have taken any of the remaining teams left, even Limerick who caught us on the hop in Munster that year


  • #1275
    mountgomery burns
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,148 ✭✭✭mountgomery burns


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    you may be thinking of 2008?. in 2008 we played Clare in the Munster final and Waterford in the semi final. Waterford were hammered in the first round of that championship by Clare down in Limerick but went through the back door route after ousting Justin after a clandestine squad meeting the following week

    in 2009 we played Waterford in the Munster final alright in Thurles for the 125 commemoration but we met Limerick in the Semi and absolutely hammered them in Croker. Kilkenny beat Waterford in the other semi. Waterford beat Galway in the quarter that year

    2010, Cork beat us in PuC and we came through the backdoor and met Waterford in the All ireland semi final. Waterford had beaten Cork after a replay that year.

    Hes talking about 2007 when we played Limerick in the Munster final and in the all ireland semi. We had also played Cork in the Munster semi and then in the all ireland quarters.

    They changed the format to not have 4 quarter finals and after brought in the rule about repeat pairings again, so 2008 was basically similar to the current formar. Pretty sure Kilkenny and Wexford contested the Leinster final and met in the all ireland semi that year as well.


  • #1276
    C__MC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,403 ✭✭✭C__MC


    mountgomery burns wrote: »
    Hes talking about 2007 when we played Limerick in the Munster final and in the all ireland semi. We had also played Cork in the Munster semi and then in the all ireland quarters.

    They changed the format to not have 4 quarter finals and after brought in the rule about repeat pairings again, so 2008 was basically similar to the current formar. Pretty sure Kilkenny and Wexford contested the Leinster final and met in the all ireland semi that year as well.

    Yes that's correct.


  • #1277
    0byme75341jo28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,571 ✭✭✭0byme75341jo28


    thelad95 wrote: »
    People saying it's a cracking draw but in all honesty I think it'll be a poor afternoon of hurling. Tipp will be too strong for Clare and Waterford will beat Wexford without getting out of second gear.

    Think that's a bit unfair on Wexford. They beat Kilkenny handily enough already this year, if that Wexford turns up they've a great chance of beating Waterford. And in fairness, it would be very much like Waterford to lose to Wexford after ending their Kilkenny losing streak :pac:


  • #1278
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,286 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    mountgomery burns wrote: »
    Hes talking about 2007 when we played Limerick in the Munster final and in the all ireland semi. We had also played Cork in the Munster semi and then in the all ireland quarters.

    They changed the format to not have 4 quarter finals and after brought in the rule about repeat pairings again, so 2008 was basically similar to the current formar. Pretty sure Kilkenny and Wexford contested the Leinster final and met in the all ireland semi that year as well.


    Oh yes I remember now. I would imagine though that the rules changed after that year because i cant imagine Waterford were happy to play Limerick again especially a week after playing Cork in a replay. That was the final year of the group round robin craic if you remember? Babs final year. James McGarry's wife sadly died in a tragic road accident that same year god rest her.

    Ourselves and Cork came through one group and, Clare and Galway came through another group.

    Cork and Galway came second so they faced Munster champions Waterford and Leinster champions Kilkenny respectively in the All Ireland quarters

    We won our group so played Wexford who were Leinster runners up and Clare won the other group so played Limerick who were Munster runners up. For some bizarre reason, Waterford ended up playing Limerick in the semi final instead of Wexford which would have made more sense. Kilkenny ended up playing Wexford instead of Limerick. Not sure if it was open draw but it was beyond mystifying why the provincial final pairings were repeated at semi final level. Perhaps the Cork v Waterford replay had something to do with it?

    Limerick were buoyed by having beat Clare but Waterford's tank was seemingly empty from having disposed of Cork after a replay. I felt if the draw was kinder to Waterford that they more than had the ability for Kilkenny in that 2007 final as good as Kilkenny were at the time. They were just caught cold on the day v Limerick.

    Waterford dropped off alot in 2008 (they did beat us but it was more down to our rustiness and inexperience after a five week gap). Waterford beat Offaly and Wexford in straight knock out so the draw was kind to them, they were confident, with a new manager and fresh...but Kilkenny were just a different animal that year and gunning for the three in a row.


  • #1279
    leestone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 399 ✭✭leestone


    It's funny most neutral people feel Waterford will beat Wexford yet Wexford beat Kilkenny twice and Waterford almost lost against the same opposition added to the fact the Waterford make some crazy decisions compared to Wexford who are very much methodical in their application


  • #1280
    Cake Man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,903 ✭✭✭Cake Man


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Limerick were buoyed by having beat Clare but Waterford's tank was seemingly empty from having disposed of Cork after a replay. I felt if the draw was kinder to Waterford that they more than had the ability for Kilkenny in that 2007 final as good as Kilkenny were at the time. They were just caught cold on the day v Limerick.
    Ah stop, we're still trying to forget that! We were in great form that year, won the league, won Munster and looked like an AI was finally going to happen but those few weeks out in a row killed us. Agree that it was ridiculous the provincial finalists also met in the AI semis and repeat pairings were allowed. We played 5 championship games that year and all were either against Cork or Limerick. Also typical that that one year they decided provincial winners only progressed to an AI quarter final, the same as provincial runners-up. Made no sense and no reward for winning your province.
    What was their justification for all of that? Pretty sure they reverted back the next year (as it basically is now).


  • #1281
    robbiezero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,878 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    leestone wrote: »
    It's funny most neutral people feel Waterford will beat Wexford yet Wexford beat Kilkenny twice and Waterford almost lost against the same opposition added to the fact the Waterford make some crazy decisions compared to Wexford who are very much methodical in their application

    Galway made Wexford look fairly limited, and it looks to me as if Waterford have far more in their locker than Wexford do at this point and a much greater scoring threat. Having said that 10/3 for Wexford is much higher than I thought it would be.


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  • #1282
    robbiezero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,878 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »
    "No one would dare"? What are you talking about? We had to win two or three more before people would shut up saying it.

    I actually don't think Clare got a soft all Ireland simply because they don't exist. But it took years of winning before that kk team was vindicated in the eyes of the usual begrudgers (and we have a few on this thread now changing the narrative in the most hilariously disingenuous way possible), so I presume Clare will have to do the same to shut up the same clowns.

    Soft All-Ireland or not, it was two very average teams who contested it. Neither team was anywhere near winning it in the few years before and after and I have not seen that in any other year.


  • #1283
    mountgomery burns
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,148 ✭✭✭mountgomery burns


    leestone wrote: »
    It's funny most neutral people feel Waterford will beat Wexford yet Wexford beat Kilkenny twice and Waterford almost lost against the same opposition added to the fact the Waterford make some crazy decisions compared to Wexford who are very much methodical in their application

    Waterford have also beaten Kilkenny twice this year.


  • #1284
    thelad95
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,812 ✭✭✭thelad95


    I really don't believe the reasons given as too why the games have been put on separate days.

    A of the bandwagoners who went to the Leinster final won't go to Cork and I don't think Tipp v Clare will attract an enormous crowd either. For a new stadium, it'll be awful to see two half empty grounds instead of just the one bumper double header.

    The real reason is because of logistics. The GAA know that both the ground and the city have always been a pain in the arse too get into and out of on match day.

    To be honest, the whole thing is a mess to be honest and as I said I fully expect two half empty grounds which will be an awful shame.


  • #1285
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,578 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Never seen so much moaning about a venue as I have with Wexford people about going to Cork.


  • #1286
    gizmo23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 185 ✭✭gizmo23


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Never seen so much moaning about a venue as I have with Wexford people about going to Cork.

    Hahaha I would taking feck all notice of us. I mean if it was in wexford we would complain about tickets (this year against kilkenny) if it was in Thurles (we would complain about always having to travel there for qf ) if it was a double header ( again we would complain about tickets 2014 q/f)
    We just love to moan and it's a pain.

    For me can't wait to go to cork. Anywhere but Thurles we 9/10 flop in Thurles on the big day only two times we have performed there was last year against a dubious cork team and I think 2012 against clare in a division 2 final. So basically YEAHY CORK


  • #1287
    C__MC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,403 ✭✭✭C__MC


    Interesting stat that the last 8/9 beaten Munster finalists won their QF. I think Tipp and Clare will be close but Clare need big performances from their key players. I'm talking Kelly, Collins, O Donnell, mc Grath.

    Tipp got their mojo back against the dubs but Dublin hurling really is in crises, Tipp have a very strong panel and probably won't get a better chance to win back to back.


  • #1288
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    leestone wrote: »
    It's funny most neutral people feel Waterford will beat Wexford yet Wexford beat Kilkenny twice and Waterford almost lost against the same opposition added to the fact the Waterford make some crazy decisions compared to Wexford who are very much methodical in their application

    KK have a hex over Waterford. Look at the SF(s) last year. They just needed to beat them this once to sort it out. (Hopefully)


  • #1289
    I said
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,855 ✭✭✭I said


    C__MC wrote: »
    Interesting stat that the last 8/9 beaten Munster finalists won their QF. I think Tipp and Clare will be close but Clare need big performances from their key players. I'm talking Kelly, Collins, O Donnell, mc Grath.

    Tipp got their mojo back against the dubs but Dublin hurling really is in crises, Tipp have a very strong panel and probably won't get a better chance to win back to back.

    Tipp will have to get past galway first more than likely a semi final.The more I look at it regarding Wexford and Waterford I initially said Waterford by 3 maybe 4 points I'm doubting myself looking at the kk game again the ingrained defensive thinking kicked in with an 8 point lead on Saturday night like last years semi they allowed kk back in when they should have kicked on with the game as good as over.
    The over reliance on canning to win games for galway is receding they have enough capable fowards scoring now.Not forgetting Flynn is out of sorts at the moment and johnny Glynn is still on the fringes.


  • #1290
    danganabu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭danganabu


    thelad95 wrote: »
    To be honest, the whole thing is a mess to be honest and as I said I fully expect two half empty grounds which will be an awful shame.

    The first one yes, the second one will be or will be very close to a sell out.
    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Never seen so much moaning about a venue as I have with Wexford people about going to Cork.

    To be fair to the Wexicans all 4 counties are or should be complaining as much - Waterford are still drunk after skelping the cats so don't even realise who or where they are playing yet, Clare have such a small fan base currently that no one has taken any notice and Tipp are so unpopular that we don't really count, also it would be a little ironic of us to complain about a choice of venue after last Saturday's choice of venue.


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  • #1291
    gizmo23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 185 ✭✭gizmo23


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    KK have a hex over Waterford. Look at the SF(s) last year. They just needed to beat them this once to sort it out. (Hopefully)

    And you don't think they haven't had it over us I think between 2004 and this year the aggregate defeat was either 14 or 19 points. Beating kilkenny was massive for us. Actually to a point where it came to big it was as if we had something won. I honestly believe the build up hampered us big time against galway it was all about wexford which it should not have been.

    I honestly believe the team is better equipped to deal with Waterford then it was for the Leinster final. Should be an enthralling encounter anyway.


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