Earthlings

jigglypuffstuff · 03-07-2017 10:34am

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Also what's the problem with supplements, meat is supplemented with B12 too and people over 50 are recommended to supplement it as a lot of them can't absorb enough, no matter what they eat. You can also get vegan EPA/DHA and your body converts more ALA when you have less of it in your system.

They are supplements... Not meant to replace natural forms of said occurring nutrients... I'm pretty sure you understand that??

Do you think humans have been taking supplements since the dawn of time??

The funny thing I eat a lot of plant based / vegetarian foods... About 70/80% actually...but to come along spouting this nonsense like a preacher thinking they have the answers is delusional and zealous... Nothing less

Synthol, I invite you to post links to these "studies"..not some documentary... I want to read the papers, the methodology and limitations like any person should ..I'll assume you did so before you came on this crusade of yours

There was a (singular) atheist in AH a few weeks ago stating that Atheists were more intelligent than religious people.. It wasn't hard to see that the study this individual was using to attempt to substantiate his/her claim was meaningless

So let's try that then...Let's see the studies....

Skylinehead · 03-07-2017 10:41am

gloobag wrote: »

Humans are the apex predator of this planet.

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Unless you step in the ocean....

We'll see what a shark thinks of us when we jam a torpedo down its throat :cool:

Synthol · 03-07-2017 10:56am

pone2012 wrote: »

They are supplements... Not meant to replace natural forms of said occurring nutrients... I'm pretty sure you understand that??

Do you think humans have been taking supplements since the dawn of time??

The funny thing I eat a lot of plant based / vegetarian foods... About 70/80% actually...but to come along spouting this nonsense like a preacher thinking they have the answers is delusional and zealous... Nothing less

Synthol, I invite you to post links to these "studies"..not some documentary... I want to read the papers, the methodology and limitations like any person should ..I'll assume you did so before you came on this crusade of yours

There was a (singular) atheist in AH a few weeks ago stating that Atheists were more intelligent than religious people.. It wasn't hard to see that the study this individual was using to attempt to substantiate his/her claim was meaningless

So let's try that then...Let's see the studies....

Your ignorance is no excuse, 1 minute Google search will find you all the info. I will spoon feed you when I get access to a computer.

Synthol · 03-07-2017 10:56am

Skylinehead wrote: »

We'll see what a shark thinks of us when we jam a torpedo down its throat :cool:

Destroying the earth is something to be proud of

jigglypuffstuff · 03-07-2017 11:20am

Synthol wrote: »

Your ignorance is no excuse, 1 minute Google search will find you all the info. I will spoon feed you when I get access to a computer.

No, ignorance, believe it or not is thinking a one minute biased google search will provide you with all the answers for a comprehensive viewpoint..but thanks for showing your ignorance (once again in this thread)

Perhaps you should google the word confirmation bias....

Tar.Aldarion · 03-07-2017 11:46am

pone2012 wrote: »

They are supplements... Not meant to replace natural forms of said occurring nutrients... I'm pretty sure you understand that??

Do you think humans have been taking supplements since the dawn of time??

The funny thing I eat a lot of plant based / vegetarian foods... About 70/80% actually...but to come along spouting this nonsense like a preacher thinking they have the answers is delusional and zealous... Nothing less

What do you mean they are not meant to? According to who? Supplements will play a great role in human health into the future.

B12 is not naturally occurring in meat, it is made by gut bacteria, or simply supplemented to animals, which are then killed and eaten, basically they do the supplementation instead of you.

Same process is done for foods fortified with B12. Your body doesn't care what is natural or where it came from.

As I already said also, many people have to take it as they can't absorb it and it gets worse as you get older.

_Brian · 03-07-2017 11:58am

Synthol wrote: »

Maybe vegans wouldn't express their opinions if your actions didn't affect the lives of millions of innocent animals, ever thought about that huh? No? Ok so I will explain.
Vegans want everyone to become vegan because innocent animals are slaughtered every day and by buying meat you directly support it, better now? If your actions didn't affect anyone else then nobody would care.

But who appointed vegans the keepers of the social conscience on these matters ??

I've been involved in farming all my life, we rear pigs for our own consumption and keep chickens for our own eggs.

So I feel confident that these innocent animals you speak of have quality lives, are well cared for and on the whole are dispatched with compassion.

Now, I am uneasy with the factory scale farming that commercial interests are pushing, but I am doing my bit on that front.
We run a small homestead style farm, provide our own eggs, pork and bacon as I can control the process, we will also be moving to provide our own beef next year too.

I think a much more sensible approach is further ensuring humain keeping and slaughter of animals.

Trying to convert everyone to vegan living is like trying to empty the sea using a bucket with a hole in the bottom, ye feel ye are really busy and doing something useful, but if you took a step back and looked no difference is being made.

Humans view animals as food, I don't see anything wrong with this, what I take issue with is people who abuse animals.

mad muffin · 03-07-2017 12:30pm

archer22 wrote: »

I thought we would need less...the Amazon is being cleared for cattle ranching,not Carrot growing

And where are all these now free animals going to live and on what? Now that we are competing for the same food source.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 03-07-2017 12:39pm

Synthol wrote: »

Plants are not the same as animals, plans don't have feeling or emotions like animals such as pigs and cows.

I don't see why it's ok to harvest one and not the other based on this comment. It's possible that we are incredibly ignorant on this topic. Maybe there are other ways to feel pain without having a central nervous system.

-=al=- wrote: »

Instead of poking the fire in the meat eater vs vegan never ending debate, maybe if everybody could just cut down a little on the old animal products?

Plenty of nice meat alternatives available these days and sometimes they're even nicer tbh.

Do you mean meat alternatives like "pork flavored tofu sausage" or the likes? If so, that's so very wrong. Like what additives are in those product to make it taste like pork/beef/chicken? Excuse my ignorance, but I tend to ignore any of these substitute products.

We do over consume animal products, there's no questioning that. The problem is consumers have no idea what's good for them anymore. The organisations promoting these studies are funded by the industries themselves, that's frightening. Lobbyists are a scourge if you ask me.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 03-07-2017 12:40pm

mad muffin wrote: »

And where are all these now free animals going to live and on what? Now that we are competing for the same food source.

The eco system will find balance

Professor Moriarty · 03-07-2017 12:49pm

Why do we have incisors?

mad muffin · 03-07-2017 12:52pm

Hassan Tangy Bacon wrote: »

The eco system will find balance

Yes, by us eating the competition

PucaMama · 03-07-2017 12:52pm

DoozerT6 wrote: »

mad muffin wrote: »

Both my sisters are vegan. I tease them mercilessly… often sending them photos of me eating meat

How is that funny, though? That's just p*ssing on their personal beliefs for no other reason than for your own jollies.

Same thing as my vegan sister constantly criticising my food choices

mad muffin · 03-07-2017 1:01pm

PucaMama wrote: »

Same thing as my vegan sister constantly criticising my food choices

Does your sister always complain how tired she is and always low energy?

Also my sisters are fat from all the "healthy" legumes and oils that they eat all the time.

Winkelmutt · 03-07-2017 1:04pm

_Brian wrote: »

It's always amusing that vegans choose a lifestyle, and then lots of them proceed to inflict their views on non vegans.

It's like they are on some sort of religious drive to convert everyone they meet.

Whatever happened to keeping your views to yourself and let the rest of us eat what we want.

Farming of animals is a well established practice and much of our economies are built around it to the extent that it's never going away.

So, if you want to go off on a vegan solo run then that's fine, but the rest of us aren't a bit interested in what your doing or what your opinions are on what we are doing.

I don't know many vegans, 8-10 maybe and all but one are insufferable bores going on and on about their own personal beliefs that everyone should live exactly as they do.

Listen, I'm not a vegan, but nor am I an total ignoramus. So, kindly don't speak for the rest of us.

As a meat eater, I am giving some thought to becoming at least vegetarian. Reasons are (and if the rest of you did your research instead of coming up with unfunny remarks, you'd also find that):

1. It's healthier
2. Better for the environment
3. Let's be kinder to animals - animals that, like us, are of this planet. We've no right to go around killing really.

Also just f*cking LOL at human's being apex predators! I've never seen a lion by a steak in the supermarket and go home and cook it with some spuds.

The opening unfunny comments on this thread are a typical reaction of someone trying to supress that guilt by sticking their head in the sand when it comes to animal welfare.

pedigree 6 · 03-07-2017 1:08pm

archer22 wrote: »

I thought we would need less...the Amazon is being cleared for cattle ranching,not Carrot growing

It's been cleared mostly at the moment for soyabean production.
Soyabean production has gone up 3000% between 1970 and 2005 and a lot more since.

The climate is very good for soyabean and then with small grains been sown after. So 2 crops can be harvested in the same year on the same ground.

With more new land coming in and a record planting coupled with the national currency dropping it looks to be a bumper year for soyabean.

Drive on...keep bulldozing.

Professor Moriarty · 03-07-2017 1:15pm

Winkelmutt wrote: »

Listen, I'm not a vegan, but nor am I an total ignoramus. So, kindly don't speak for the rest of us.

As a meat eater, I am giving some thought to becoming at least vegetarian. Reasons are (and if the rest of you did your research instead of coming up with unfunny remarks, you'd also find that):

1. It's healthier
2. Better for the environment
3. Let's be kinder to animals - animals that, like us, are of this planet. We've no right to go around killing really.

Also just f*cking LOL at human's being apex predators! I've never seen a lion by a steak in the supermarket and go home and cook it with some spuds.

The opening unfunny comments on this thread are a typical reaction of someone trying to supress that guilt by sticking their head in the sand when it comes to animal welfare.

I've seen lots of donkeys buying tofu.

Also, lions don't have fingers so they can't use an ATM or a credit card machine. It's very frustrating for them but they get to eat zebras instead.

henryporter · 03-07-2017 1:18pm

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Why do we have incisors?

Several herbivore animals have incisors, e.g. most Gorillas (who are also quite big and strong, so there goes the weak and sickly stupid vegan argument), hippos (also big and strong - sort of a theme going on here:rolleyes:), camels etc. I'm sure you'll now have to retort with another trope that is unfounded and equally ridiculous

Professor Moriarty · 03-07-2017 1:24pm

henryporter wrote: »

Several herbivore animals have incisors, e.g. most Gorillas (who are also quite big and strong, so there goes the weak and sickly stupid vegan argument), hippos (also big and strong - sort of a theme going on here:rolleyes:), camels etc. I'm sure you'll now have to retort with another trope that is unfounded and equally ridiculous

Touchy much? Just a simple question. I didn't ask why hippos and camels have incisors, I asked why humans have incisors. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I'll be very specific - why do human beings have incisors?

PucaMama · 03-07-2017 1:40pm

mad muffin wrote: »

PucaMama wrote: »

Same thing as my vegan sister constantly criticising my food choices

Does your sister always complain how tired she is and always low energy?

Also my sisters are fat from all the "healthy" legumes and oils that they eat all the time.

I don't engage with her about food at all any more and if she did tell me she was unwell I'd point her to the doctor.

henryporter · 03-07-2017 1:40pm

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Touchy much? Just a simple question. I didn't ask why hippos and camels have incisors, I asked why humans have incisors. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I'll be very specific - why do human beings have incisors?

Well we don't have incisors to eat meat, if that's really what you're asking - you'd look pretty hopeless trying to tear a piece of crusty bread or grip an apple without them. They're a necessity for eating, not some form of evolutionary marker on our need to eat meat.

Professor Moriarty · 03-07-2017 1:58pm

henryporter wrote: »

Well we don't have incisors to eat meat, if that's really what you're asking - you'd look pretty hopeless trying to tear a piece of crusty bread or grip an apple without them. They're a necessity for eating, not some form of evolutionary marker on our need to eat meat.

Well, we do have incisors as a result of being omnivores according to scientific research. A more user friendly explanation is this article here. Essentially, we are designed to be omnivores.

A_Sober_Paddy · 03-07-2017 2:07pm

Just had a run in with a vegan in work, she was giving out that we didn't carry vego bars...While wearing puma jacket and a bag full of lifestyle clothes...Those poor animals...But let's not think of the slave child labour in Asia

henryporter · 03-07-2017 2:22pm

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Well, we do have incisors as a result of being omnivores according to scientific research. A more user friendly explanation is this article here. Essentially, we are designed to be omnivores.

More exactly we evolved to eat meat from an original plant based diet: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn4122-meat-eating-is-an-old-human-habit/, in order to survive. This is no longer the case, but instead humans are consuming more meat/dairy products than ever due to the economic pressures foisted on us by successive governments and the industries that lobby them.

Professor Moriarty · 03-07-2017 2:26pm

henryporter wrote: »

More exactly we evolved to eat meat from an original plant based diet: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn4122-meat-eating-is-an-old-human-habit/, in order to survive. This is no longer the case, but instead humans are consuming more meat/dairy products than ever due to the economic pressures foisted on us by successive governments and the industries that lobby them.

Your second link isn't working. Your first link doesn't refute anything. In fact it confirms that teeth evolved for meat eating. How is it that we are able to digest meat and have been doing so for millennia? Surely if we had evolved to be vegetarian or vegan than we wouldn't be able to digest meat?

Tar.Aldarion · 03-07-2017 2:41pm

The whole argument is stupid, who cares what evolution did regarding teeth? It gave us brains to use so we don't have to worry what shape our teeth are.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 03-07-2017 2:45pm

We are not designed to be carnivores but we are certainly physiologically designed to be omnivores who eat meat. Our teeth are the classic configuration for meat eaters. Our stomach's produce hydrochloric acid, not found in any herbivores but in all meat eaters.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 03-07-2017 2:46pm

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

The whole argument is stupid, who cares what evolution did regarding teeth? It gave us brains to use so we don't have to worry what shape our teeth are.

And the brains we have developed due to a switch to meat eating.

Tar.Aldarion · 03-07-2017 2:57pm

Lucca Ripe Rail wrote: »

And the brains we have developed due to a switch to meat eating.

That's probably true yes (along with the advent of fire), but that merely states what happened in the past. It does not relate to what we should do now that we don't need to hurt and kill others to get adequate nutrition, and if we do need to, that we should not try to limit it as much as possible.

Professor Moriarty · 03-07-2017 3:04pm

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

The whole argument is stupid, who cares what evolution did regarding teeth? It gave us brains to use so we don't have to worry what shape our teeth are.

Correct. The whole argument is indeed "stupid" as you say. We are omnivores.

BrokenArrows · 03-07-2017 3:52pm

henryporter wrote: »

Plenty of very unhealthy meat eaters out there as well. The biggest fallacy perpetuated by the meat and dairy industries is that their products provide a balanced intake of proteins, calcium, vitamins etc. as they know that by stating this most of their customers won't bother to go and check any facts for themselves.

There's plenty of vegan Triathletes, MMA fighters, Ultrarunners, Rugby players etc out there competing at the top of their game, fuelled by nothing but plants, so you might need to curb the generalisations and get informed.

I dont think any meat or dairy company says their product provide a balanced intake of proteins, calcium, vitamins. That would be stupid.

They might advertise cheese as being high in protein and calcium etc.
But a Steak, potatoes, carrots, peas on a plate provides a pretty decent nutritious meal. Noone is going to claim that a big steak along will provide a balanced diet.

And i didnt generalise, i simply said every vegan that i have met.
I bet if you ask a professional athlete who is vegan what they need to do to make sure they get enough calories, protein etc im sure they need to go through a much bigger ordeal than a meat eater.

BrokenArrows · 03-07-2017 3:59pm

mad muffin wrote: »

Imagine if the whole world was vegan? We'd need more areas cleared out for crop and vegetable farming than we do now.

What do you think of that my fellow vegans?

Thats not true actually.

Most land is taken up for growing food to feed animals. Consider how much grass and grain a cow needs to eat from birth up to slaughter (about 18 months) So it would actually probably even out.

osarusan · 03-07-2017 4:04pm

How can you find out if somebody has a tired joke about vegans?

You don't have to, they'll tell you.

Maximus Alexander · 03-07-2017 4:18pm

Synthol wrote: »

I am just trying to spread the message, animals suffer every single day to support the massive meat industry.

In fairness I'd suffer every day without the meat industry.

Maximus Alexander · 03-07-2017 4:22pm

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Do people think we should keep destroying forests to satisfy the worlds increased demand for meat, or we should try to cut down on meat consumption?

Why not? Forests aren't delicious.

Maximus Alexander · 03-07-2017 4:24pm

archer22 wrote: »

All of the Earth's biggest, strongest most powerful creatures are vegetarian.

O rly?

Nekarsulm · 03-07-2017 4:31pm

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

That's because the better land is being used for tillage farming, generally soyabean production while the less productive land is used for cattle farming.

So in effect, it's the demand for soya that is driving deforestation.

The demand for bio fuels is playing a part also. Incredible acreage's of oil crops are being grown worldwide for fuel.

BrokenArrows · 03-07-2017 4:33pm

archer22 wrote: »

All of the Earth's biggest, strongest most powerful creatures are vegetarian.

All of the worlds "Earth's biggest, strongest most powerful creatures that are vegetarian" spend their whole days eating in order to get a sufficient amount of food.

henryporter · 03-07-2017 4:35pm

BrokenArrows wrote: »

I dont think any meat or dairy company says their product provide a balanced intake of proteins, calcium, vitamins. That would be stupid.

http://www.ndc.ie/dairy-goodness/8-reasons-to-drink-milk

http://www.bordbia.ie/consumer/aboutfood/meat/porkbacon/pages/nutritionalbenefits.aspx

http://www.bordbia.ie/consumer/aboutfood/eggs/pages/default.aspx

etc. etc. These are the representatives of the aforementioned industries.

Gunmonkey · 03-07-2017 4:50pm

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Thats not true actually.

Most land is taken up for growing food to feed animals. Consider how much grass and grain a cow needs to eat from birth up to slaughter (about 18 months) So it would actually probably even out.

But the argument comes that once everyone goes vegan we will need vastly more space to farm crops to supplement the gap left by meat in diets.

And if you say

uh, we just use the land the animals are on now and turn it into cropland!

...it flags up the one question none of these Vegan activists, "meat is murder" types ever address......what do we do with the animals we have now?

Because if its an argument of animals being "mistreated" then the prospect of a cull is off the table so that leaves caring for them on the existing land and thus clearing even more land for crops (and still have to produce crops to feed the animals, especially in cases of bad weather).

Are Am Eye · 03-07-2017 4:52pm

Are Am Eye wrote: »

What about the plants, the vegetables and the cereals?
You're happy to butcher, mutilate and devour them, aren't you?
Care about their pain do you, heartless bxstards.

Synthol wrote: »

Plants are not sentient.

Plants are alive. Who are you to decide which life should be preserved and which shouldn't. By your arbitrary sentience nonsense. Do you think you're God.

And in addition to your holocaust on defenseless plant life you are happy to wipe out billions of insects world wide every year. For the crime of taking a small slice of the action - of your precious salads you want to stuff your face with.

mickrock · 03-07-2017 5:12pm

Human brains have decreased in size by 8% in the last 10,000 years.

This coincides with the start of the agricultural revolution, where over time people have eaten less meat and more grains.

wexandproud · 03-07-2017 5:20pm

Are Am Eye wrote: »

Plants are alive. Who are you to decide which life should be preserved and which shouldn't. By your arbitrary sentience nonsense. Do you think you're God.

And in addition to your holocaust on defenseless plant life you are happy to wipe out billions of insects world wide every year. For the crime of taking a small slice of the action - of your precious salads you want to stuff your face with.

this is also where i have a problem with vegans . If they want to be vegan because they feel it is a healthier diet then fair enough but don't give me the speel about animal cruelty . Just because you cant see an animal rambling around a field it doesn't mean smaller critters are not being poisoned by spraying. its like a friend of mine down here who would be big into animal rights and would be forever talking about animal welfare but the same guy has no problem putting out rat poison because he sees them as vermin , he doesn't want to hear about a fox killing chickens being vermin in the farmers eyes

Gunmonkey · 03-07-2017 6:04pm

wexandproud wrote: »

this is also where i have a problem with vegans . If they want to be vegan because they feel it is a healthier diet then fair enough but don't give me the speel about animal cruelty . Just because you cant see an animal rambling around a field it doesn't mean smaller critters are not being poisoned by spraying. its like a friend of mine down here who would be big into animal rights and would be forever talking about animal welfare but the same guy has no problem putting out rat poison because he sees them as vermin , he doesn't want to hear about a fox killing chickens being vermin in the farmers eyes

And what about all the birds my brother/father shoot to stop them eating freshly sown seeds?

If we end meat farming for cruelty, then this has to end too so now we have unchecked disruption of crops from birds, who will only increase in numbers due to reduced deaths from farmers and a now increased food source (more fields of crops to make up for no more meat).

So now we have to plant even more crops to make up for the shortfall that never even get a start.

So say we get 100tons of crops from 1000 acres (BS numbers I pulled from my arse, if you have official please post em) but lose 10-15% to birds eating seeds we now have to plant about 1150 acres worth to make up the shortfall, so thats more land cleared and more rainforests torn down (because we still have all the old farmland housing the cows/sheep/pigs etc remember, we cant turf them onto wildland because it would destroy the ecology).

And on the tpoic of spraying bugs off the precious precious veggies, does that mean we could cultivate insects for consumption? Balk as you will, its gonna be a viable food source for a lot of people if money is invested.

And if insects are fair game, then surely clams/oysters and such are fair game since they aren't that intellectually developed and have less developed nervous and emotional systems than a beetle or a locust!

DoozerT6 · 03-07-2017 6:45pm

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

It's not immediately obvious but when talking about things like dairy and eggs there are a load of issues. When a cow stops producing enough milk they are killed at a fraction of their lifespan. They re forced to go through pregnancies up until then, as with people you need to get pregnant to start producing milk. Their kids are taken off them which is obviously distressing and either go through the same fate or if male will be killed or exported to be killed as veal at a young age.

For eggs, I used to not have a problem with these but then I found out every single male baby chick is killed as obviously they don't need them for anything, millions of them just thrown into grinders alive.

This one of the main reasons why I became vegetarian

it's just appalling. Seriously - these chicks are just thrown alive into a huge meat grinder, or something like the following happens: warning, distressing video, I won't embed.

https://youtu.be/phK70feyOmQ

Synthol · 03-07-2017 6:56pm

Are Am Eye wrote: »

Plants are alive. Who are you to decide which life should be preserved and which shouldn't. By your arbitrary sentience nonsense. Do you think you're God.

And in addition to your holocaust on defenseless plant life you are happy to wipe out billions of insects world wide every year. For the crime of taking a small slice of the action - of your precious salads you want to stuff your face with.

You know you are wrong and are just trying to wind people up. You realise that plants have no emotions or have the same feelings as animals or not? Cows care for their calfs and show emotions when separated, do you see flowers doing that? Why do you think that veganism is some kind of extreme ideology? It's not, veganism is taking REASONABLE steps to reduce animal suffering and improve health. If cockroaches infest your house then it is reasonable to exterminate them as they are affecting your well being, however it is not reasonable to just kill all the cockroaches you see for no reason. There is no scientific proof that plants suffer in any way, however there is proof that animals do.

Synthol · 03-07-2017 6:59pm

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

Just had a run in with a vegan in work, she was giving out that we didn't carry vego bars...While wearing puma jacket and a bag full of lifestyle clothes...Those poor animals...But let's not think of the slave child labour in Asia

Children in slave labour do not get slaughtered and cut into pieces. Again, veganism is taking REASONABLE steps to reduce animal suffering not finding a piece of cloth you like then going home and doing extensive research to where it came from, and you would have a hard time finding where it actually came from, while you know that meat is inherently bad and animals were slaughtered in order to get that meat.

A_Sober_Paddy · 03-07-2017 7:06pm

Synthol wrote: »

Children in slave labour do not get slaughtered and cut into pieces. Again, veganism is taking REASONABLE steps to reduce animal suffering not finding a piece of cloth you like then going home and doing extensive research to where it came from, and you would have a hard time finding where it actually came from, while you know that meat is inherently bad and animals were slaughtered in order to get that meat.

Wow oh wow...that is the funniest and saddest thing i have ever heard...eating meat is worse than child labour...gotta love twisted logic of vegans

Synthol · 03-07-2017 7:06pm

Gunmonkey wrote: »

And what about all the birds my brother/father shoot to stop them eating freshly sown seeds?

If we end meat farming for cruelty, then this has to end too so now we have unchecked disruption of crops from birds, who will only increase in numbers due to reduced deaths from farmers and a now increased food source (more fields of crops to make up for no more meat).

So now we have to plant even more crops to make up for the shortfall that never even get a start.

So say we get 100tons of crops from 1000 acres (BS numbers I pulled from my arse, if you have official please post em) but lose 10-15% to birds eating seeds we now have to plant about 1150 acres worth to make up the shortfall, so thats more land cleared and more rainforests torn down (because we still have all the old farmland housing the cows/sheep/pigs etc remember, we cant turf them onto wildland because it would destroy the ecology).

And on the tpoic of spraying bugs off the precious precious veggies, does that mean we could cultivate insects for consumption? Balk as you will, its gonna be a viable food source for a lot of people if money is invested.

And if insects are fair game, then surely clams/oysters and such are fair game since they aren't that intellectually developed and have less developed nervous and emotional systems than a beetle or a locust!

Veganism is taking reasonable steps to reduce animal suffering, and no you wouldn't have to increase farmland as most of it is used for feeding the animals. All meat is unhealthy including insects.

Sam Kade · 03-07-2017 7:08pm

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Thats not true actually.

Most land is taken up for growing food to feed animals. Consider how much grass and grain a cow needs to eat from birth up to slaughter (about 18 months) So it would actually probably even out.

Did you ever hear of crop rotation and giving the land a break from constant ploughing by putting it in grass for a few years? Grass is no good for humans but ideal for livestock. Not all land is suitable for tilling.

Earthlings

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