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Earthlings

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    #152
    jigglypuffstuff
    Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭jigglypuffstuff


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    :confused::confused:

    Also what's the problem with supplements, meat is supplemented with B12 too and people over 50 are recommended to supplement it as a lot of them can't absorb enough, no matter what they eat. You can also get vegan EPA/DHA and your body converts more ALA when you have less of it in your system.

    They are supplements... Not meant to replace natural forms of said occurring nutrients... I'm pretty sure you understand that??

    Do you think humans have been taking supplements since the dawn of time??

    The funny thing I eat a lot of plant based / vegetarian foods... About 70/80% actually...but to come along spouting this nonsense like a preacher thinking they have the answers is delusional and zealous... Nothing less

    Synthol, I invite you to post links to these "studies"..not some documentary... I want to read the papers, the methodology and limitations like any person should ..I'll assume you did so before you came on this crusade of yours

    There was a (singular) atheist in AH a few weeks ago stating that Atheists were more intelligent than religious people.. It wasn't hard to see that the study this individual was using to attempt to substantiate his/her claim was meaningless

    So let's try that then...Let's see the studies....


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    #153
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    gloobag wrote: »
    Humans are the apex predator of this planet.
    The_Valeyard wrote: »
    Unless you step in the ocean....

    We'll see what a shark thinks of us when we jam a torpedo down its throat :cool:


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    #154
    Synthol
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 328 ✭✭Synthol


    pone2012 wrote: »
    They are supplements... Not meant to replace natural forms of said occurring nutrients... I'm pretty sure you understand that??

    Do you think humans have been taking supplements since the dawn of time??

    The funny thing I eat a lot of plant based / vegetarian foods... About 70/80% actually...but to come along spouting this nonsense like a preacher thinking they have the answers is delusional and zealous... Nothing less

    Synthol, I invite you to post links to these "studies"..not some documentary... I want to read the papers, the methodology and limitations like any person should ..I'll assume you did so before you came on this crusade of yours

    There was a (singular) atheist in AH a few weeks ago stating that Atheists were more intelligent than religious people.. It wasn't hard to see that the study this individual was using to attempt to substantiate his/her claim was meaningless

    So let's try that then...Let's see the studies....


    Your ignorance is no excuse, 1 minute Google search will find you all the info. I will spoon feed you when I get access to a computer.


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    #155
    Synthol
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 328 ✭✭Synthol


    Skylinehead wrote: »
    We'll see what a shark thinks of us when we jam a torpedo down its throat :cool:


    Destroying the earth is something to be proud of


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    #156
    jigglypuffstuff
    Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭jigglypuffstuff


    Synthol wrote: »
    Your ignorance is no excuse, 1 minute Google search will find you all the info. I will spoon feed you when I get access to a computer.

    No, ignorance, believe it or not is thinking a one minute biased google search will provide you with all the answers for a comprehensive viewpoint..but thanks for showing your ignorance (once again in this thread)

    Perhaps you should google the word confirmation bias....


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    #157
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    pone2012 wrote: »
    They are supplements... Not meant to replace natural forms of said occurring nutrients... I'm pretty sure you understand that??

    Do you think humans have been taking supplements since the dawn of time??

    The funny thing I eat a lot of plant based / vegetarian foods... About 70/80% actually...but to come along spouting this nonsense like a preacher thinking they have the answers is delusional and zealous... Nothing less
    What do you mean they are not meant to? According to who? Supplements will play a great role in human health into the future.

    B12 is not naturally occurring in meat, it is made by gut bacteria, or simply supplemented to animals, which are then killed and eaten, basically they do the supplementation instead of you.

    Same process is done for foods fortified with B12. Your body doesn't care what is natural or where it came from.

    As I already said also, many people have to take it as they can't absorb it and it gets worse as you get older.


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    #158
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,508 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Synthol wrote: »
    Maybe vegans wouldn't express their opinions if your actions didn't affect the lives of millions of innocent animals, ever thought about that huh? No? Ok so I will explain.
    Vegans want everyone to become vegan because innocent animals are slaughtered every day and by buying meat you directly support it, better now? If your actions didn't affect anyone else then nobody would care.

    But who appointed vegans the keepers of the social conscience on these matters ??

    I've been involved in farming all my life, we rear pigs for our own consumption and keep chickens for our own eggs.

    So I feel confident that these innocent animals you speak of have quality lives, are well cared for and on the whole are dispatched with compassion.

    Now, I am uneasy with the factory scale farming that commercial interests are pushing, but I am doing my bit on that front.
    We run a small homestead style farm, provide our own eggs, pork and bacon as I can control the process, we will also be moving to provide our own beef next year too.

    I think a much more sensible approach is further ensuring humain keeping and slaughter of animals.

    Trying to convert everyone to vegan living is like trying to empty the sea using a bucket with a hole in the bottom, ye feel ye are really busy and doing something useful, but if you took a step back and looked no difference is being made.

    Humans view animals as food, I don't see anything wrong with this, what I take issue with is people who abuse animals.


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    #159
    mad muffin
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭mad muffin


    archer22 wrote: »
    I thought we would need less...the Amazon is being cleared for cattle ranching,not Carrot growing ;)

    And where are all these now free animals going to live and on what? Now that we are competing for the same food source.


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    #160
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Synthol wrote: »
    Plants are not the same as animals, plans don't have feeling or emotions like animals such as pigs and cows.

    I don't see why it's ok to harvest one and not the other based on this comment. It's possible that we are incredibly ignorant on this topic. Maybe there are other ways to feel pain without having a central nervous system.
    -=al=- wrote: »
    Instead of poking the fire in the meat eater vs vegan never ending debate, maybe if everybody could just cut down a little on the old animal products?

    Plenty of nice meat alternatives available these days and sometimes they're even nicer tbh.

    Do you mean meat alternatives like "pork flavored tofu sausage" or the likes? If so, that's so very wrong. Like what additives are in those product to make it taste like pork/beef/chicken? Excuse my ignorance, but I tend to ignore any of these substitute products.

    We do over consume animal products, there's no questioning that. The problem is consumers have no idea what's good for them anymore. The organisations promoting these studies are funded by the industries themselves, that's frightening. Lobbyists are a scourge if you ask me.


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    #161
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    mad muffin wrote: »
    And where are all these now free animals going to live and on what? Now that we are competing for the same food source.

    The eco system will find balance ;)


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    #162
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,360 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Why do we have incisors?


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    #163
    mad muffin
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭mad muffin


    Hassan Tangy Bacon wrote: »
    The eco system will find balance ;)

    Yes, by us eating the competition ;)


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    #164
    PucaMama
    Registered Users Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    DoozerT6 wrote: »
    mad muffin wrote: »
    Both my sisters are vegan. I tease them mercilessly… often sending them photos of me eating meat :D

    How is that funny, though? That's just p*ssing on their personal beliefs for no other reason than for your own jollies.
    Same thing as my vegan sister constantly criticising my food choices


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    #165
    mad muffin
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭mad muffin


    PucaMama wrote: »
    Same thing as my vegan sister constantly criticising my food choices

    Does your sister always complain how tired she is and always low energy?

    Also my sisters are fat from all the "healthy" legumes and oils that they eat all the time.


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    #166
    Winkelmutt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭Winkelmutt


    _Brian wrote: »
    It's always amusing that vegans choose a lifestyle, and then lots of them proceed to inflict their views on non vegans.

    It's like they are on some sort of religious drive to convert everyone they meet.

    Whatever happened to keeping your views to yourself and let the rest of us eat what we want.

    Farming of animals is a well established practice and much of our economies are built around it to the extent that it's never going away.

    So, if you want to go off on a vegan solo run then that's fine, but the rest of us aren't a bit interested in what your doing or what your opinions are on what we are doing.

    I don't know many vegans, 8-10 maybe and all but one are insufferable bores going on and on about their own personal beliefs that everyone should live exactly as they do.

    Listen, I'm not a vegan, but nor am I an total ignoramus. So, kindly don't speak for the rest of us.

    As a meat eater, I am giving some thought to becoming at least vegetarian. Reasons are (and if the rest of you did your research instead of coming up with unfunny remarks, you'd also find that):

    1. It's healthier
    2. Better for the environment
    3. Let's be kinder to animals - animals that, like us, are of this planet. We've no right to go around killing really.

    Also just f*cking LOL at human's being apex predators! I've never seen a lion by a steak in the supermarket and go home and cook it with some spuds.

    The opening unfunny comments on this thread are a typical reaction of someone trying to supress that guilt by sticking their head in the sand when it comes to animal welfare.


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    #167
    pedigree 6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭pedigree 6


    archer22 wrote: »
    I thought we would need less...the Amazon is being cleared for cattle ranching,not Carrot growing ;)

    It's been cleared mostly at the moment for soyabean production.
    Soyabean production has gone up 3000% between 1970 and 2005 and a lot more since.

    The climate is very good for soyabean and then with small grains been sown after. So 2 crops can be harvested in the same year on the same ground.

    With more new land coming in and a record planting coupled with the national currency dropping it looks to be a bumper year for soyabean.

    Drive on...keep bulldozing.


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    #168
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,360 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Winkelmutt wrote: »
    Listen, I'm not a vegan, but nor am I an total ignoramus. So, kindly don't speak for the rest of us.

    As a meat eater, I am giving some thought to becoming at least vegetarian. Reasons are (and if the rest of you did your research instead of coming up with unfunny remarks, you'd also find that):

    1. It's healthier
    2. Better for the environment
    3. Let's be kinder to animals - animals that, like us, are of this planet. We've no right to go around killing really.

    Also just f*cking LOL at human's being apex predators! I've never seen a lion by a steak in the supermarket and go home and cook it with some spuds.

    The opening unfunny comments on this thread are a typical reaction of someone trying to supress that guilt by sticking their head in the sand when it comes to animal welfare.

    I've seen lots of donkeys buying tofu.

    Also, lions don't have fingers so they can't use an ATM or a credit card machine. It's very frustrating for them but they get to eat zebras instead.


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    #169
    henryporter
    Registered Users Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭henryporter


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Why do we have incisors?

    Several herbivore animals have incisors, e.g. most Gorillas (who are also quite big and strong, so there goes the weak and sickly stupid vegan argument), hippos (also big and strong - sort of a theme going on here:rolleyes:), camels etc. I'm sure you'll now have to retort with another trope that is unfounded and equally ridiculous


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    #170
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,360 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    henryporter wrote: »
    Several herbivore animals have incisors, e.g. most Gorillas (who are also quite big and strong, so there goes the weak and sickly stupid vegan argument), hippos (also big and strong - sort of a theme going on here:rolleyes:), camels etc. I'm sure you'll now have to retort with another trope that is unfounded and equally ridiculous

    Touchy much? Just a simple question. I didn't ask why hippos and camels have incisors, I asked why humans have incisors. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I'll be very specific - why do human beings have incisors?


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    #171
    PucaMama
    Registered Users Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    mad muffin wrote: »
    PucaMama wrote: »
    Same thing as my vegan sister constantly criticising my food choices

    Does your sister always complain how tired she is and always low energy?

    Also my sisters are fat from all the "healthy" legumes and oils that they eat all the time.
    I don't engage with her about food at all any more and if she did tell me she was unwell I'd point her to the doctor.


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    #172
    henryporter
    Registered Users Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭henryporter


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Touchy much? Just a simple question. I didn't ask why hippos and camels have incisors, I asked why humans have incisors. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I'll be very specific - why do human beings have incisors?

    Well we don't have incisors to eat meat, if that's really what you're asking - you'd look pretty hopeless trying to tear a piece of crusty bread or grip an apple without them. They're a necessity for eating, not some form of evolutionary marker on our need to eat meat.


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    #173
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,360 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    henryporter wrote: »
    Well we don't have incisors to eat meat, if that's really what you're asking - you'd look pretty hopeless trying to tear a piece of crusty bread or grip an apple without them. They're a necessity for eating, not some form of evolutionary marker on our need to eat meat.

    Well, we do have incisors as a result of being omnivores according to scientific research. A more user friendly explanation is this article here. Essentially, we are designed to be omnivores.


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    #174
    A_Sober_Paddy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,221 ✭✭✭A_Sober_Paddy


    Just had a run in with a vegan in work, she was giving out that we didn't carry vego bars...While wearing puma jacket and a bag full of lifestyle clothes...Those poor animals...But let's not think of the slave child labour in Asia


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    #175
    henryporter
    Registered Users Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭henryporter


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Well, we do have incisors as a result of being omnivores according to scientific research. A more user friendly explanation is this article here. Essentially, we are designed to be omnivores.

    More exactly we evolved to eat meat from an original plant based diet: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn4122-meat-eating-is-an-old-human-habit/, in order to survive. This is no longer the case, but instead humans are consuming more meat/dairy products than ever due to the economic pressures foisted on us by successive governments and the industries that lobby them.


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    #176
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,360 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    henryporter wrote: »
    More exactly we evolved to eat meat from an original plant based diet: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn4122-meat-eating-is-an-old-human-habit/, in order to survive. This is no longer the case, but instead humans are consuming more meat/dairy products than ever due to the economic pressures foisted on us by successive governments and the industries that lobby them.

    Your second link isn't working. Your first link doesn't refute anything. In fact it confirms that teeth evolved for meat eating. How is it that we are able to digest meat and have been doing so for millennia? Surely if we had evolved to be vegetarian or vegan than we wouldn't be able to digest meat?


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    #177
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    The whole argument is stupid, who cares what evolution did regarding teeth? It gave us brains to use so we don't have to worry what shape our teeth are.


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    #178
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    We are not designed to be carnivores but we are certainly physiologically designed to be omnivores who eat meat. Our teeth are the classic configuration for meat eaters. Our stomach's produce hydrochloric acid, not found in any herbivores but in all meat eaters.


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    #179
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    The whole argument is stupid, who cares what evolution did regarding teeth? It gave us brains to use so we don't have to worry what shape our teeth are.

    And the brains we have developed due to a switch to meat eating.


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    #180
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Lucca Ripe Rail wrote: »
    And the brains we have developed due to a switch to meat eating.

    That's probably true yes (along with the advent of fire), but that merely states what happened in the past. It does not relate to what we should do now that we don't need to hurt and kill others to get adequate nutrition, and if we do need to, that we should not try to limit it as much as possible.


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    #181
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,360 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    The whole argument is stupid, who cares what evolution did regarding teeth? It gave us brains to use so we don't have to worry what shape our teeth are.

    Correct. The whole argument is indeed "stupid" as you say. We are omnivores.


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