All Ireland SHC Final (formerly SHC thread) - READ MOD NOTE POST #1

KrustyUCC · 12-06-2017 01:05PM

Cork County Board couldn't organise a session in a brewery

terryrogers · 12-06-2017 04:29PM

bruschi wrote: »

only catching up on this thread now. I find it mad how everyone is gettign so upset for Fennelly not getting more frees or more punishment on Wexford players. My own opinion on some of them, the second penalty I felt he clearly pushed Ryan as the ball dropped in. Fennelly was then fouled outside the box, but kept on running, over carried it, and the ref gave the penalty where he finished up. He over carried the ball into the penalty area, but yet the free was given to where he finished being fouled, not where the foul occurred. Technically, it should have been a free, not a penalty. He was fouled outside the penalty area. Murphy was yellow carded for this.

McDonald in the first half was grabbed and turned as a high ball was being hit into him. It was a clear penalty. Aidan Nolan was clotheslined going through on goal, no card issued. Fennelly was getting frees when he put the head down and just barged through defenders, yet as noted above, McDonald was doing similar but was being called correctly as not being fouled. It was only very late in the game the ref stopped giving Fennelly those frees. Ger Aylward was lucky to be on the field after hitting Donohoe off the ball and then getting a yellow card later on. Was it Lester Ryan too who struck off the ball in the first half and got a yellow? Kilkenny were no sheep in this game.

From my obviously biased opinion, I do not believe at all that the ref was more lenient on Wexford than Kilkenny. I thought we only really got one soft free, late on in the game that McDonald missed. I thought Kilkenny got frees easier than we did for similar incidents.

Everyone has their own opinion on things, but reading through this thread looks like Kilkenny were robbed of the game by the ref. Again, I openly admit I may be biased, but I certainly didnt think we got the rub of the green when it came to refereeing decisions Saturday night that it in any influenced the result of the game

Quite one sided post, but you've pointed out your bias twice so your obviously aware. Wexford definitely got the rub of the green from the ref but you would expect that to happen in Wexford park. I would agree though that he certainly didn't affect the result. Wex were well on top throughout and I don't know how there was only one score in it at the end.

One thing I would disagree with though is on the treatment of Colin fennely. I thought it was the most blatant targeted fouling of one player that I've seen for a while. Wexford clearly identified him as a threat from the first minute and persistently hung out of him before and on every ball. I didn't see much evidence of this on Conor mc on TV so we'll have to take your word for it.

Tipp showed up big problems in Wexford's full back line in the league when they hit them for 5 goals, and it looks like they've actioned this just by defending more cynically. They will get away with this in the cauldron of Wexford park but elsewhere or with a fussier referee they are in trouble. Hopefully Galway can exploit and discourage this type of play, if even for the good of the game as it was a very poor game to watch.

One other thing I noticed was the amount of buying of frees there was. Players spinning and throwing themselves on the ground when they felt an arm on the shoulder. This is typical of Davy Fitz's teams but KK were at it too, Cillian Buckleys blatant dive in the second half the worst of them. The GAA need to clamp down on this because as it is we're heading the way of the boyos across the water.

bruschi · 12-06-2017 04:55PM

terryrogers wrote: »

Quite one sided post, but you've pointed out your bias twice so your obviously aware. Wexford definitely got the rub of the green from the ref but you would expect that to happen in Wexford park. I would agree though that he certainly didn't affect the result. Wex were well on top throughout and I don't know how there was only one score in it at the end.

One thing I would disagree with though is on the treatment of Colin fennely. I thought it was the most blatant targeted fouling of one player that I've seen for a while. Wexford clearly identified him as a threat from the first minute and persistently hung out of him before and on every ball. I didn't see much evidence of this on Conor mc on TV so we'll have to take your word for it.

Tipp showed up big problems in Wexford's full back line in the league when they hit them for 5 goals, and it looks like they've actioned this just by defending more cynically. They will get away with this in the cauldron of Wexford park but elsewhere or with a fussier referee they are in trouble. Hopefully Galway can exploit and discourage this type of play, if even for the good of the game as it was a very poor game to watch.

One other thing I noticed was the amount of buying of frees there was. Players spinning and throwing themselves on the ground when they felt an arm on the shoulder. This is typical of Davy Fitz's teams but KK were at it too, Cillian Buckleys blatant dive in the second half the worst of them. The GAA need to clamp down on this because as it is we're heading the way of the boyos across the water.

My reasoning fore the one sided post was that all the posts prior seem to indicate the ref was toatally one sided. The above was just to highlight the flip side of that and that you could take as much a view the other way.

to be honest, I dont think Fennelly was targeted at all, but he won a lot of his ariel battles and then a panic ensued in the Wexford defence and as a result, he was fouled a lot when he ran on. I think it was a case of the style of Fennellys play (ie head down and just run) against a Wexford defender who was the last man back and therefore was highlighted more, particularly by winning 2 penalties from it. I dont think it was a tactic or preplanned from Wexford, because if it was, then it was the dumbest type of plan ever.

I dont think Ryan is solid at full back, and the game showed a lot of frailties there on the most basic game plan possible.

sjb25 · 12-06-2017 05:09PM

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Galway will beat Wexford comfortably.

A lot of people said the same about Kilkenny before the match Saturday just saying

EIREDriver · 12-06-2017 07:46PM

When will tickets go on sale for the Leinster Final? After Galways game at the weekend?

dirkmeister · 12-06-2017 08:19PM

terryrogers wrote: »

Cillian Buckleys blatant dive in the second half the worst of them. The GAA need to clamp down on this because as it is we're heading the way of the boyos across the water.

Jesus, that was not a dive.

Buckley f**ked up, but it wasn't a dive.

terryrogers · 12-06-2017 11:30PM

bruschi wrote: »

My reasoning fore the one sided post was that all the posts prior seem to indicate the ref was toatally one sided. The above was just to highlight the flip side of that and that you could take as much a view the other way.

to be honest, I dont think Fennelly was targeted at all, but he won a lot of his ariel battles and then a panic ensued in the Wexford defence and as a result, he was fouled a lot when he ran on. I think it was a case of the style of Fennellys play (ie head down and just run) against a Wexford defender who was the last man back and therefore was highlighted more, particularly by winning 2 penalties from it. I dont think it was a tactic or preplanned from Wexford, because if it was, then it was the dumbest type of plan ever.

I dont think Ryan is solid at full back, and the game showed a lot of frailties there on the most basic game plan possible.

Without a doubt Wexford had a plan to nullify fennelys running, and evidently with good reason too as even still he was involved in 3 goals, could have had another penalty, and set up a few goal chances that should have been scored. He was double marked a few times while Bolger was left totally free near goal, and he was fouled by 2 men also for both penalties. I think Wexford easily predicted that the cats would lump high ball into FF and countered this with cynical fouling.

Its great to see Wexford back challenging at the top but its very disappointing to see another proud hurling county adopting such a negative style of play. It's all good when you're winning but wait and see, they will be pulled up on the cynical fouling soon and cue Davy whinging to Joanne cantwell again!

PTH2009 · 13-06-2017 02:21PM

http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=271586

Hurling qualifiers round 1 draw on Monday 26 June. Games to be played Sat July 1st

Hurling qualifiers round 2 draw on Monday July 3rd. Games to be played Sat July 8th

sjb25 · 13-06-2017 02:45PM

EIREDriver wrote: »

When will tickets go on sale for the Leinster Final? After Galways game at the weekend?

http://www.wexfordgaa.ie/2017/06/ticket-information-re-tickets-sales-prices-forthcoming-leinster-senior-hurling-final-sun-2nd-july/

larrymiller · 13-06-2017 05:53PM

sjb25 wrote: »

http://www.wexfordgaa.ie/2017/06/ticket-information-re-tickets-sales-prices-forthcoming-leinster-senior-hurling-final-sun-2nd-july/

No hill 16

sjb25 · 13-06-2017 05:58PM

larrymiller wrote: »

No hill 16

No closed as setting up for the Coldplay concert the weekend after i hear

TheRiverman · 13-06-2017 06:06PM

Coldplay July 8.

Mantis Toboggan · 13-06-2017 06:08PM

Tipp will draw kilkenny, it's got 2013 written all over this year's championship.

EIREDriver · 14-06-2017 09:42PM

sjb25 wrote: »

EIREDriver wrote: »

When will tickets go on sale for the Leinster Final? After Galways game at the weekend?

http://www.wexfordgaa.ie/2017/06/ticket-information-re-tickets-sales-prices-forthcoming-leinster-senior-hurling-final-sun-2nd-july/

Thanks!

Bonniedog · 15-06-2017 11:14AM

sjb25 wrote: »

No closed as setting up for the Coldplay concert the weekend after i hear

That's a disgrace. Croke Park with Hill closed is bizarre atmosphere and does impact on the games. Besides which, this will be 45,000+ game. Wexicans will travel in huge numbers. Also of course increases the ticket costs. You would wonder sometimes what Croke Park's priorities are.

mountgomery burns · 15-06-2017 11:57AM

Bonniedog wrote: »

That's a disgrace. Croke Park with Hill closed is bizarre atmosphere and does impact on the games. Besides which, this will be 45,000+ game. Wexicans will travel in huge numbers. Also of course increases the ticket costs. You would wonder sometimes what Croke Park's priorities are.

But with 45,000 it would still only be just over half full. Crowd will be less dispersed which will mean a better atmosphere for those attending.

Bonniedog · 15-06-2017 12:01PM

mountgomery burns wrote: »

But with 45,000 it would still only be just over half full. Crowd will be less dispersed which will mean a better atmosphere for those attending.

Its like playing into echo chamber! Besides, why should a concert take precedence over a hurling match and people who might want to stand get cheaper admission? I doubt they are lowering the stand prices!

mountgomery burns · 15-06-2017 12:05PM

Bonniedog wrote: »

Its like playing into echo chamber! Besides, why should a concert take precedence over a hurling match and people who might want to stand get cheaper admission? I doubt they are lowering the stand prices!

No it shouldn't but at the same time I don't think it makes a huge difference atmosphere wise. The stadium is just too big for most games held throughout the year.

Bonniedog · 15-06-2017 12:13PM

mountgomery burns wrote: »

No it shouldn't but at the same time I don't think it makes a huge difference atmosphere wise. The stadium is just too big for most games held throughout the year.

Yes, it is but atmosphere is still better when there is crowd on Hill. Even corralling people into one section rather than opening the whole Hill to save a few hundred Euro looks ridiculous. They can well afford the extra security when they are hosting Coldplay!

They seem to have no conception of how all of this looks, how much they are p1ssing off the grass roots, and how much for granted they are taking games without properly promoting them.

dastardly00 · 15-06-2017 12:34PM

I'm pretty sure I'm correct in saying that Hill 16 wasn't open for the 2016 and 2015 Leinster Finals (and possibly previous years as well).

So I reckon that not opening Hill 16 for the Leinster Final this year has sweet fcuk all got to do with the Coldplay concert.

It's more €€€ for the GAA.

cyrils foxpit · 15-06-2017 12:41PM

I know its not the done thing normally and would never happen (ulster finals in croker in mid 2000s aside) and especially for wexford its nice for them to play a final in croke park but wouldn't thurles be a better venue for this game...a slightly longer spin for wexicans but would def attract more neutrals...each county getting allocated their terrace etc etc

dastardly00 · 15-06-2017 12:46PM

cyrils foxpit wrote: »

I know its not the done thing normally and would never happen (ulster finals in croker in mid 2000s aside) and especially for wexford its nice for them to play a final in croke park but wouldn't thurles be a better venue for this game...a slightly longer spin for wexicans but would def attract more neutrals...each county getting allocated their terrace etc etc

It makes logical sense, but playing a Leinster final outside of Leinster just isn't going to happen.

Bonniedog · 15-06-2017 12:50PM

You are right about Hill being closed last two years. It was open in 2014 and 2013 when we were in finals, mostly I suspect because of large number of Dublin supporters who have Parnell terrace passes. Was still much better atmosphere although 2013 was biggest crowd for a long time. Wexford always bring huge numbers to Croke Park for big games so would make sense to open it. Leinster finals when they were good used to be over 50,000.

dastardly00 · 15-06-2017 12:55PM

Bonniedog wrote: »

You are right about Hill being closed last two years. It was open in 2014 and 2013 when we were in finals, mostly I suspect because of large number of Dublin supporters who have Parnell terrace passes. Was still much better atmosphere although 2013 was biggest crowd for a long time. Wexford always bring huge numbers to Croke Park for big games so would make sense to open it. Leinster finals when they were good used to be over 50,000.

I posted this before and in the Wexford thread a few days ago but it's useful here for this discussion.
I'm expecting a big spike for 2017.

Realt Dearg Sec · 15-06-2017 03:08PM

I don't see how it's a disgrace to not open the hill. Opening the hill for a Leinster final is very much the exception and not the rule this century.

galwaylad14 · 15-06-2017 07:18PM

Ya I was at the last 2 Leinster finals and I'm fairly sure the Hill was closed both times. I can remember being on the Hill in 2013 the day Dublin hammered us but I presume it was just opened that day for the Dubs.

Anyway there was scarcely 30,000 at the last 2 so no need for the Hill. I'd expect somewhere over 40,000 will be there this year though as you'd expect Wexford to bring a bigger crowd than Kilkenny given the buzz around them this year and the fact it's a long time since they contested a Leinster final.

From what I remember there was a decent Galway crowd there last year and again this should increase this year as there's a better buzz/hype around the team than I can ever remember.

But in any case there's the guts of 60,000 seats in Croke Park so the Hill being closed will be no issue.

ProudDUB · 15-06-2017 07:23PM

Bonniedog wrote: »

Its like playing into echo chamber! Besides, why should a concert take precedence over a hurling match and people who might want to stand get cheaper admission? I doubt they are lowering the stand prices!

Because 82,000 Coldplay fans (paying multiples of what a match ticket costs) will make the GAA, far, far more money than 40,000 odd hurling fans will.

As Bill Clinton said - It's the economy stupid !

Not saying it's right btw, just doing the sums that pervade the GAA's decision making these days.

Bonniedog · 15-06-2017 07:35PM

Their primary responsibility is to promote the games. There are very few more depressing sights either being there, or on TV, of seeing an empty terrace behind one of the goals. Do they have any conception of PR optics?

Reason Hill was open in 2013 and 2014 Galway Lad was because of number of Parnell Pass terrace holders who wanted tickets. That and the semi final against Cork were fantastic atmospheres. Although am admittedly biased in first instance!

Realt Dearg Sec · 15-06-2017 07:40PM

Bonniedog wrote: »

Their primary responsibility is to promote the games. There are very few more depressing sights either being there, or on TV, of seeing an empty terrace behind one of the goals. Do they have any conception of PR optics?

Reason Hill was open in 2013 and 2014 Galway Lad was because of number of Parnell Pass terrace holders who wanted tickets. That and the semi final against Cork were fantastic atmospheres. Although am admittedly biased in first instance!

They probably can promote the games more effectively with the millions they make from a Coldplay gig than from the PR optics of a sparsely filled Hill.

ProudDUB · 15-06-2017 07:43PM

Perhaps the suits in HQ think that the best way to promote the game, is to make truckloads of moolah from concerts and let it trickle down to grass roots level. If the people going to just one game in Croker, are a bit put out, well....c'est la vie.

All Ireland SHC Final (formerly SHC thread) - READ MOD NOTE POST #1

Comments