Doctor Who Season 10 [ Spoilers ]

Goodshape · 23-05-2017 12:18pm

CramCycle wrote: »

I have friends who read all the spoilers before they goto movies or watch TV shows, they seem to enjoy it, I just enjoy it alot less if people tell me what is going to happen.

I can't understand people who do that.

Even knowing there's a surprise coming will hugely spoil the enjoyment of it, imo.

"oh you won't believe the twist! It's so unexpected!!" –– well, great, it's not unexpected now!

FunLover18 · 23-05-2017 12:59pm

CramCycle wrote:

I suppose, I like surprises and I just cannot understand why they don't do it like that. I have friends who read all the spoilers before they goto movies or watch TV shows, they seem to enjoy it, I just enjoy it alot less if people tell me what is going to happen.

I suppose re an actor leaving, it's hard to keep it quiet given that they'll probably be signing on to other projects it would just be impossible to stop it leaking. If they could keep who the next doctor is is though, that'd be cool, if we had no idea who the doctor was going to generate into but they will insist on doing an announcement.

CastorTroy · 24-05-2017 10:56am

Goodshape wrote: »

Was Missy in the promos for this episode? I don't usually pay attention to the promos but from what I did see, she wasn't. Because it was a "surprise", right?

Except that the actress did a Reddit AMA last week on account of her character "returning in the next episode".

So that's how I knew she was in the vault – because they didn't even attempt to keep a secret. Pity.

I don't just mean the promo for ths episode, though she appeared at the end of the promo after the previous episode. I mean it's no secret she was in this season which is why people were guessing she was in the vault. So I'm wondering if that wasn't made public knowledge, would anyone guess she was in there?

I've said the same about regenerations before. There is no reason they can't keep it secret. American shows manage it. Like Game of Thrones is finished filming its next season, yet I don't know who will live or die and I don't want to.
BBC don't even try. For Capaldi they even had a special reveal program to announce him.

I do remember they can work it to their advantage sometimes. Like when Jenna was announced as the next companion due to join later, then she popped up in the Asylum of the Daleks. And again in the Christmas episode. This all tied into the main story.

But, again, imagine if we didn't know Amy and Rory were leaving. Would've been more shocking, unless we didn't believe it right away and assumed they would return until their departure was confirmed.

As for actors signing on to other shows. It's not like they do 20+ episodes a year. They do have time to do other stuff since a lot of British shows are so short.

Doctor DooM · 26-05-2017 10:07am

Did they manage to keep John Hurt quiet? I seem to recall being surprised by that one.

pixelburp · 26-05-2017 10:18am

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Did they manage to keep John Hurt quiet? I seem to recall being surprised by that one.

Yeah, I think so; IIRC that was a total surprise, to me anyway. The cameo from Tom Baker was ruined though, albeit by Baker himself who blabbed during an interview a few weeks prior to the airing of the 50th anniversary episode.

Doctor DooM · 26-05-2017 10:50am

pixelburp wrote: »

Yeah, I think so; IIRC that was a total surprise, to me anyway. The cameo from Tom Baker was ruined though, albeit by Baker himself who blabbed during an interview a few weeks prior to the airing of the 50th anniversary episode.

That 50th was a magical moment for me. I was working at Eirtakon and I was sitting in a bar with about 200 Who fans of about all ages. Cons being safe spacey types of event a couple of 14 year old-ish girls felt comfy enough to ask this old (to them) grizzled shaven head guy what it was like watching Who as a kid in the 80s

There was a couple of moments when the whole crowd went nuts, Baker was one of them!

pixelburp · 26-05-2017 11:00am

Doctor DooM wrote: »

That 50th was a magical moment for me. I was working at Eirtakon and I was sitting in a bar with about 200 Who fans of about all ages. Cons being safe spacey types of event a couple of 14 year old-ish girls felt comfy enough to ask this old (to them) grizzled shaven head guy what it was like watching Who as a kid in the 80s

There was a couple of moments when the whole crowd went nuts, Baker was one of them!

Of course, both Hurt & Baker have such distinct voices, I knew who they were before the camera even dramatically revealed the speaker at each actors' respective first appearance. I positively geeked out the moment I heard Baker speak; ditto Hurt before he even turned around the show basically went 'Look who we nabbed!'

Wibbs · 26-05-2017 3:55pm

Tom Baker has an incredible voice and one that has gotten better with the years.

CramCycle · 27-05-2017 2:11am

I think it would have been far more interesting if it was a former or unknown regeneration of the master (or even just a different timelord) was the one placed in the box, but the doctor did not know who it was and the master or someone he knew came out as one we know. Not sure how it would work though.

Doctor DooM · 27-05-2017 8:32am

CramCycle wrote: »

I think it would have been far more interesting if it was a former or unknown regeneration of the master (or even just a different timelord) was the one placed in the box, but the doctor did not know who it was and the master or someone he knew came out as one we know. Not sure how it would work though.

I think I know the trick they're gonna pull.

Missy gonna die from the effect of the lightning thingy. The cube has been keeping her alive. It turns out she regenerates INTO Simms

The_Valeyard · 27-05-2017 4:21pm

still a great season though.

Angron · 27-05-2017 8:19pm

I think the father from My Parents Are Aliens is in this episode.

flazio · 27-05-2017 8:43pm

Angron wrote: »

I think the father from My Parents Are Aliens is in this episode.

That's him alright, seen him in a few things like the BBC Three war comedy Bluestone 42.

Angron · 27-05-2017 8:46pm

flazio wrote: »

That's him alright, seen him in a few things like the BBC Three war comedy Bluestone 42.

I was trying to figure out why he seemed familiar until it eventually clicked that that's why I recognised him. Seems almost a bit meta given that he's a qualified doctor, and has played an alien before :pac:

So, looks like next week's episode is getting a bit 1984.

corkie · 27-05-2017 8:47pm

Tony Gardner

Another Good episode! What has Bill Done?

27-05-2017 9:15pm

That was great!

Doctor DooM · 28-05-2017 8:16am

Well that was a proper Doctor Who episode wasn't it?

This season is probably going to be the best one of the entire new series. It's 100% the best first half for me, anyway!

jasonb · 28-05-2017 9:30am

I must admit, I really feel like I'm missing something with these last two episodes.

I've really liked the season so far, but these last two just haven't gelled with me. I can't put my finger on it, but especially with last night's I just couldn't get past several issues.

A hi-tech lab that works with biochemicals has a system that every 30 minutes vents the internal air outside, and it can't be stopped, even if the lab is in lockdown due to a biochemical leak?

The same hi-tech lab has a mechanical, spinning wheel, combination lock on the door, that is only used when the lab is in lockdown? And why was the door closed in the first place, the first technician had left both of them open, so it's not like there's some mechanism that says you can only open one of the other's closed.

The Commander of what I presume is the Russian Army is out on his own, near absolutely no other Russian Soliders, not even an aide-de-camp, with a big Russian Flag hanging off the back of his Jeep, in case it wasn't clear where he is from?

The Alien race are somehow able to change every clock in the world to a countdown, even an analogue watch?

The Doctor is going to blow up the 'entire lab' but it's ok to watch it from behind a door right beside the lab.

It just felt so contrived to me, ricidculous details designedly purely to lead to a 'the world is in terrible danger' scenario and the Doctor's blindness finally puts him in danger due to the aforementioned mechanical combination lock.

The premise is a good one - do you choose to save the world at an unknown cost? - and giving Bill that choice between the world and the Doctor is good too, but it was all done in such a clunky, awkward way, it reminded me of some of the worse RTD episodes, where the stakes had to be raised more and more.

I know it's a kids' program, so you clearly have to suspend disbelief, and that's fine. But with good epsidoes, you barely notice you're doing that, it just works. The fact that I was mentally noticing the above list while watching the show tells me that it just didn't work in this one...

Wibbs · 28-05-2017 9:55am

Doctor DooM wrote: »

This season is probably going to be the best one of the entire new series.

It's the series the most like the original ones for me and Capaldi the most old style of the Doctors. TBH he really disappointed me at first. I was looking forward to him in a big way, but he fell flat for me. Now his last season and he's what I'd hoped he'd be. Typical.

jasonb wrote: »

I must admit, I really feel like I'm missing something with these last two episodes./I know it's a kids' program, so you clearly have to suspend disbelief, and that's fine. But with good epsidoes, you barely notice you're doing that, it just works. The fact that I was mentally noticing the above list while watching the show tells me that it just didn't work in this one...

Ditto TBH. I though last night's storyline and massive plot holes were weak tea. Made up by the strong performances of the main players.

The_Valeyard · 28-05-2017 11:49am

really good episode. Very much a string season.

Still no idea why the alienship / base is pyramid based.

CastorTroy · 28-05-2017 4:14pm

So 3 people who said they were just soldiers who would disobey orders feel they have the power to consent to give over control of the world?

Going by thr trailer for next week

Reminds me a bit of Last of the Timelords

jasonb · 28-05-2017 5:23pm

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Still no idea why the alienship / base is pyramid based.

Exactly! It felt like the reason it was a pyramid was purely so the line 'It's a 5,000 year old pyramid, but it wasn't here yesterday' could be used. I can see no other reason for it. And that's what I mean about it being contrived and clunky...

pixelburp · 28-05-2017 7:54pm

I think the problem with Dr Who, a problem that existed even in the Classic Era, is that it just never could portray the geopolitical with any real competency. It just wasn't within the wheelhouse of a show that tended to paint it colours fairly broad anyway, and the nature of the audience didn't allow for any kind of complexity either; so the result tended to be something often very reductionist, or simply strained believably (the Pertwee years loved to trot out the trigger happy 'undersecretary ' for instance, while in the new series you got a speech by Obama to end poverty people watched on Christmas Day).

This episode didn't really stray from that wobbly formula, but it's just such a familiar ... failing, I guess, I was willing to accept the simplicity of it all; so there's no way any general would have that latitude of power - there are chains of command after all - but for the purposes of Dr. Who's perspective of the world that's just how it works.

The episode was otherwise enjoyable, but definitely felt like the first 'B' in a season hitherto an arguable streak of straight 'A's. I'm also pretty sure it's the longest sequence for a single story in new-Who: next week will bring it to three episodes, four if you count the cliffhanger / last act of 'Oxygen'. I did like the latest once off - quasi companion in the scientist lady, she was nice touch of personality to that side-story.

Orion · 29-05-2017 12:08pm

Nobody is talking about

Nardole! Is he dead?

Doctor DooM · 29-05-2017 1:12pm

Orion wrote: »

Nobody is talking about
Nardole! Is he dead?

I'm sure he'll get a new pair of lungs and be fine

Penn · 29-05-2017 2:19pm

Orion wrote: »

Nobody is talking about
Nardole! Is he dead?

Considering he hadn't melted/decayed in the Tardis like Dan Miller did, I'd say he recovers somehow. If they were going to kill him, that would have been the time to show it.

jasonb · 29-05-2017 7:56pm

Watched Extremis again, and preferred it the second time, though I noticed that the Doctor had no problem telling the Cardinal (well, he thought it was the Cardinal, but was one of the Monks, it was when he was using the machine to get his sight back) that he was blind. I thought he was keeping that a secret?

As for Nardole, the Sky EPG for next week's episode say that Bill and Nardole have to work together, so that answers that!

ebbsy · 29-05-2017 8:00pm

CastorTroy wrote: »

So 3 people who said they were just soldiers who would disobey orders feel they have the power to consent to give over control of the world?

Going by thr trailer for next week
Reminds me a bit of Last of the Timelords

I hope not.

ebbsy · 29-05-2017 8:00pm

CastorTroy wrote: »

So 3 people who said they were just soldiers who would disobey orders feel they have the power to consent to give over control of the world?

Going by thr trailer for next week
Reminds me a bit of Last of the Timelords

I hope not.

29-05-2017 11:00pm

I'm sorry but no, that was a great idea but the execution was atrocious. It was on of the worst directed/plotted episodes I can remember.

Absolutely everything about the lab was contrived and frankly stupid.
Nothing they did could/would happen.
From there being no tolerances set, in the injection settings, to the "scientist" taking off his biohazard protection. To scooping a random mega toxic sample by hand to taking it OUT of the containment area. I'm not even going to think of more there.
Then the military scenes oh Christ, the "Why can't we be friends" scene alone was enough for me.

FFS it was insulting

Penn · 30-05-2017 9:50am

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm sorry but no, that was a great idea but the execution was atrocious. It was on of the worst directed/plotted episodes I can remember.

Absolutely everything about the lab was contrived and frankly stupid.
Nothing they did could/would happen.
From there being no tolerances set, in the injection settings, to the "scientist" taking off his biohazard protection. To scooping a random mega toxic sample by hand to taking it OUT of the containment area. I'm not even going to think of more there.
Then the military scenes oh Christ, the "Why can't we be friends" scene alone was enough for me.

FFS it was insulting

I admit, I didn't have high hopes when yer wan put her handbag in the doorway, then "NO DON'T SHUT THE... *bag gets slammed*... door..." Not usually a sign of good things to come. Everything that happened in the lab after that just seemed par for the course, especially the oversized combination lock.

I enjoyed the general Doctor/Bill/Nardole bits, but yeah, the Monks are basically just The Silence bar the memory loss stuff, the lab stuff was ridiculous, the army generals taking it upon themselves to give control of the world over to the aliens without even ringing their own Presidents... Some very stupid decisions were made in the writing of this episode.

CramCycle · 30-05-2017 12:43pm

Great idea shoved into possibly the worst episode I have seen in a long time.

jasonb · 30-05-2017 12:53pm

Glad to see I'm not the only one who thought is was poor!

will56 · 31-05-2017 8:48am

Penn wrote: »

Considering he hadn't melted/decayed in the Tardis like Dan Miller did, I'd say he recovers somehow. If they were going to kill him, that would have been the time to show it.

I didn't get this at all, esp when the scientist is back in the same room as the tardis but has her hasmat suit off ? why wasn't she effected ?

CramCycle · 31-05-2017 9:34am

will56 wrote: »

I didn't get this at all, esp when the scientist is back in the same room as the tardis but has her hasmat suit off ? why wasn't she effected ?

Also the fact that the double doors were open on several occasions, the other lad had clearly walked between the two several times. The whole building was infected, drinking coffee in a lab where you need to be wearing gloves and suited up, taking the helmet off inside the sealed room. Also Nardole carrying the infection out of the room and into the Tardis (where I thought they were going, which would have made more sense).

I realise it is Who and suspension of belief must be carried out but some of the holes were large enough to fit a double decker bus through.

will56 · 31-05-2017 9:37am

CramCycle wrote: »

Also the fact that the double doors were open on several occasions, the other lad had clearly walked between the two several times. The whole building was infected, drinking coffee in a lab where you need to be wearing gloves and suited up, taking the helmet off inside the sealed room. Also Nardole carrying the infection out of the room and into the Tardis (where I thought they were going, which would have made more sense).

I realise it is Who and suspension of belief must be carried out but some of the holes were large enough to fit a double decker bus through.

Yeah, normally I ignore some of the plot holes, and often they'e pointed out to me after but they were very obvious and massive in this episode !

Doctor DooM · 31-05-2017 2:32pm

I love that people can have such conflicting opinions on something and still all love the property

flazio · 03-06-2017 9:39pm

I thought that after Moffat left Toby Whithouse would have been the natural choice for show runner given his success with Being Human and his excellent episodes such as School Reunion, God Complex and A Town called Mercy.
But tonight's episode has shown me that perhaps it's a good thing he isn't because it would just be more of the same as Moffat.

The_Valeyard · 03-06-2017 9:41pm

I liked it.

flazio · 03-06-2017 11:40pm

My main bug bear is that it seemed out of character that the Doctor would go into the Pyramid with a group of soldiers and start shooting the monks? Where's the Doctor who Never Would?

CastorTroy · 04-06-2017 12:40am

Felt it was a poor enough end to a poor enough trilogy.

And is there a running story this season? Like Bad Wolf or The Impossible Girl?

04-06-2017 10:32am

CastorTroy wrote: »

Felt it was a poor enough end to a poor enough trilogy.

And is there a running story this season? Like Bad Wolf or The Impossible Girl?

It'll be around

Missy becoming Master

again

pixelburp · 04-06-2017 3:53pm

I think it was better than the second part myself, mostly because the awkward geopolitical angle was gone, but still felt a little stale. I guess that hot streak from the start of the season had to end some time. The finale was a little underwhelming too, not helped by the lack of any sort of resistance from The Monks - at least The Silence gave off a better sense of being an immediate threat as well as a broader one.

That said, the grim setting of the first act was compelling, if brief; if Dr. Who was more into season-long arcs & its audience average a little higher, I could have seen a few episodes spent in that dystopia. Shades of 1984 and an interesting premise on the face of it really. Shame we couldn't have spent more time there.

Next week sees Victorian soldiers on Mars vs. Ice Warriors. Huh. you know, say what you will about the show but there's no doubt its shifting tone is its greatest strength (and weakness)

edit: Oh and had to laugh at the Season 2 easter egg:

Magpie Electric

FunLover18 · 04-06-2017 8:49pm

Is that actually the end of the Monks!? That was awful. The first episode was a simulation to learn how to invade Earth which the Doctor copped and sent to his real self to warn him about the invasion. They then invaded anyway despite the Doctor's warning and I still have no idea why they needed to be asked to "help" except solely so that they set up Bill as the psychic link. one of the most convoluted Who stories in a long time that could have been done in two episodes instead of dragging it out for three.

Angron · 05-06-2017 10:37pm

Yeah, the conclusion of that story just felt like "Oh, right so" to me.

FunLover18 · 05-06-2017 11:42pm

Can I just check something?

Did the Doctor defeat the Monks and it was pure coincidence that his blindness hindered his escape meaning Bill had to consent

OR

Did the simulation predict everything including the fact that the Doctor would cop onto the simulation thus warning himself and then did it also simulated that the Doctor would "defeat" the Monks but in so doing so be the cause of their eventual victory?

Because if it was the latter then the story may deserve a rewatch and more credit than I originally gave it. Although if it was the former, I should clearly be writing for the show.

CramCycle · 06-06-2017 1:03am

Another could have been good. They really could have worked that story into a few episodes. As someone else said, have people running round a dystopian London. A real blast into classic Who. They could have made it very interesting and relevant, rather than that one dig about fake news.

I really feel like someone on the writing team had a great idea and then someone at the BBC said, well, we have the two masters for some point later in the season, so we can jam up the first half of the season with this.

will56 · 06-06-2017 9:11am

CramCycle wrote: »

I really feel like someone on the writing team had a great idea and then someone at the BBC said, well, we have the two masters for some point later in the season, so we can jam up the first half of the season with this.

Its episodes and story arc like this that really hinder the Who universe and leave to long term fans to follow along.
Very hard to recommend Who to people because you can never predict the quality of an episode. It flips from "Blink" to "Kill the Moon" on a regular basis

On a more positive note, I'm getting a bit more fond of Missy. I like the slightly unhinged character that Michelle Gomez is playing, but then again its only when she's been given the right lines/scenes

flazio · 06-06-2017 11:00am

In relation to the Simm master,

I'm getting the impression it might just be in flashback. Missy telling the Doctor and Bill how she overcome one thing or another and we get to see it.

The_Valeyard · 06-06-2017 7:28pm

FunLover18 wrote: »

Can I just check something?

Did the Doctor defeat the Monks and it was pure coincidence that his blindness hindered his escape meaning Bill had to consent

OR

Did the simulation predict everything including the fact that the Doctor would cop onto the simulation thus warning himself and then did it also simulated that the Doctor would "defeat" the Monks but in so doing so be the cause of their eventual victory?

Because if it was the latter then the story may deserve a rewatch and more credit than I originally gave it. Although if it was the former, I should clearly be writing for the show.

Or the simulation is still running. Victory outcome is bound to happen.

Doctor Who Season 10 [** Spoilers **]

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Doctor Who Season 10 [ Spoilers ]