Doctor Who Season 10 [** Spoilers **]

WomanSkirtFan8

Now that was a truly excellent episode! Have to say there were many WTF moments for me. Great to see the original Modasian Cybermen too! Good reveal for John Simm;s Master althought I think it may have been fairly obvious as to who that was with Bill.

Can't wait for the finanle next week.!

CramCycle

WomanSkirtFan8 wrote: »

althought I think it may have been fairly obvious as to who that was with Bill.

Can't wait for the finanle next week.!

I really didn't see it but i have been overworked,

copped as soon as his voice flicked for a second. Simms really hid it well, or maybe I was too busy laughing

.

I'm finally catching up on these episodes, so I'm not gonna read the last few pages. Just my thoughts on the first 5 eps

Episode 1 I found alright. I don't get why heather was screaming and trying to kill bill (lol) until they find out she was keeping a promise and suddenly they're besties again
Episode 2 I found amazing! Love it!!!
Ep 3 as noted the guy was a bit caricature shallow "we need a villain in there somewhere" but it was grand. It seemed a bit rushed though. The star whale one was done a lot better
Ep 4 knock knock quite enjoyed it, creepy, but again the ending He's suddenly her son and that's a bigger deal than him being her dad? Also it's a bit mad? And then fireworks just happen to be going off? And she can resurrect the dead except not anyone who isn't bill's friends because f them?
Ep 5 Could see it coming a mile off. I have to say I was a bit disappointed with the doctor suddenly getting political about capitalism... he must have said it 20 times in the episode. When did this start being a thing? Also if the company was charging for oxygen wouldn't they prefer to keep their market alive? Can't make money off dead people
PS I'm totally convinced it's missy in the box. Hey missy you so fine!!

Also Starring LeVar Burton

FunLover18 wrote: »

but female role models (non violent or otherwise) are even fewer, especially in sci-fi. Seeing the reaction of women and girls on social media to the Wonder Woman movie really made me realise how much it means to have role model you can relate to and how much I, as a white male, take that for granted. But I don't think I'll be losing a role model if they switch gender, there's no doubt in my mind that girls have grown up with The Doctor as a role model, because at the end of the day, The Doctor is a role model because of his actions and his morals not because of his gender or race.

This! Three of the biggest role models for me on television when I was a teenager were Buffy Summers, Cordelia Chase (Buffy the Vampire Slayer; Angel - moreso on Angel when the character evolved) and Max Guevara (Jessica Alba's character on Dark Angel). It made absolutely no difference to me that they were the opposite gender and I'd be all for seeing a female Doctor as long as they cast someone good and keep the storytelling sharp and interesting.

Okay I've just watched up to the ice warriors.
The monks were very well done in a way. The simulation idea was inspired. The way they kept building up the veritas, i was really dreading whatever it was going to be, but it didn't actually fall flat. It was perfect. Was happy with the random number thing.
But then the violence? The doctor going yeah cool bomb them? Uwotm8? That's so not the doctor. Harriet jones anyone? And hey let's rile up my companion to make sure she shoots me? Did the doctor swap bodies with missy or something??? Is there a link between bill asking how many have you killed to the doc, and missy saying oh I've remembered everyone i killed you didn't tell me this part? I duno. It's so out of character. Maybe that's why the tardis ran away to missy.
Aw it was such a great idea, the doctor going on about saving them from themselves, bill's heartbreak, great stuff. Just the rest wasn't. Also why couldn't the doc turn on camera for the phone? For the combination lock?
Ice warriors was grand. I think I'm getting a bit skeptical for it now after a few of those bad eps

pixelburp

So during an interview, even John Simm himself was a little disappointed his presence in the series was spoiled by the BBC; for the sake of people like BlueWolf playing catch-up I won't paste his quote because (ironically) it spoils World Enough and Time a little, but reads like he wasn't aware. Makes sense, I'm sure he had fun coming back to the role & the natural showmanship would want a big surprise for the audience.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/even-john-simm-was-miffed-by-the-early-announcement-of-1796531725

Hopefully I'll be caught up over the next couple days

CastorTroy

Finale tomorrow so maybe you can finish about the same time as the rest of us

flazio

I have one theory about tonight.

The Doctor we saw begin to regenerate is actually the Simm Master turning into Missy. We saw last week how he likes his disguises, and I remember thinking something seems off about his hair.

corkie

Nice departure for Bill, if that is the last we see of her!

Great final episode!

ebbsy

End of that great episode was disappointing. Wrtiers lost the run of themselves.

corkie

David Bradley playing the role of "THE Doctor"!

Known from 'Harry Potter' and 'Game of Thrones'

The_Valeyard

I really enjoyed that. Wow. Roll on Dec.25th

pixelburp

Corkie, don't be post photos onto the thread spoiling something so soon after broadcast. We're all watching at different junctures and I'd ask people to respect that and add spoiler tags where needed.

That's the big surprise ruined for me, so I hope not too many others have been.

McLoughlin

Looks like Christmas special is set before first doctor regeneration so the story perhaps is first and current Doctor's surviving encounters with Cyberman and resisting regenerations but working together against maybe a new threat they accept the need to move on and regenerate ?

Rigor Mortis

Great episode. Honestly think this is the best series in a long time. All four main characters have delivered in spades.

corkie

pixelburp wrote: »

Corkie, don't be post photos onto the thread spoiling something so soon after broadcast. We're all watching at different junctures and I'd ask people to respect that and add spoiler tags where needed.

That's the big surprise ruined for me, so I hope not too many others have been.

Sorry my bad! Didn't really think of it as spoiling anything from the show.

A I thought it was already know that he would be in the Xmas Special!

ixoy

Really enjoyed the Doctor's arc in this, making a stand against the cyber men even if it was a wee bit reminiscent of Trenzalore. This was one of the strongest finales IMO and this, and most of the season as a whole, were a good exit for Moffat.

Bill's plot arc was deftly handled although I'm not too sure how I felt about her leaving the Doctor on the floor to go off with her new girlfriend. I'm guessing the change in show runner forced the hand a little.

The ending though -

really liked that. I avoided the Internet until I watched the episode as I've been burnt too often for this show so it was very effective. Nicely foreshadowed too with Missy explaining why she didn't remember meeting with her former incarnation.
Getting David Bradley on board is of course the perfect casting after this work on the anniversary special. Not too sure when it's set since he had a constant run of companions but I'm sure they'll explain it away, although they may actually bring back Susan which would set it before 'An Unearthly Child'. I'm sure I'll find out more long before it airs anyway when the BBC blabs...

Penn

Why couldn't Moffat have just killed off Bill? And if he wasn't prepared to do that, why write her into such a situation where he had to come up with such a stupid cop-out?

And then, he kills off Missy throwing in a line about how she won't be able to regenerate from it, even though we know they'll bring back The Master at some point.

I enjoyed most of the episode, and the idea behind the final Master and Missy scene was great. But yet again he writes a tragic, irreversible ending for a companion and then instantly reverses it and gives them a happy ending out of nowhere.

Have to say I didn't really enjoy this series. Bill and Nardole were great, but Capaldi wasn't given a whole heap to do compared to last series, and the stories (especially the three-parter) weren't all that great.

Looking forward to seeing David Bradley play the Doctor though, rather than playing the guy playing the Doctor. And hopefully Capaldi is given a great send off. He exceeded all my expectations even if he hasn't had the same quantity of great stories Tennant and Smith had.

CastorTroy

Can time lords really just decide if they want to regenerate after surviving being shot by a cyberman multiple times and blown up by an explosion that could wipe out the cybermen? I know he's fighting it but still.

The Bill ending was weird.

I really didn't like the whole time difference on the ship. Like I said last week, it would just get confusing if you think about it. Like Nardole saying the Cybermen would take time to regroup, but sure then that could just be minutes from Nardole's POV,

I'm sure we'll see The Master again as we always do. But seems Missy was willing to die. I think she was expecting to be shot. Especially because she remembered being told to bring the spare bit with her at all times, so she would remember something like shooting herself.
Though didn't see the point in stabbing The Master because it's not like turning into Missy instantly turned her to The Doctor's side.

ebbsy

There are so many people on Gallifreybase giving last night's offering 10/10......

matrim

The main issue I have with the episode is, how did the doctor and bill survive an explosion that wiped out everything else on that level of the ship?

Angron

My problem with what happened with Bill is it just feels like a bit of a copy of what happened to Clara when she left, made feel slightly worse by Bill being a better character.

I liked the episode, but I wouldn't call it 10/10.

CastorTroy

Has any of the new series' companions completely died? River maybe, though she's in the Library

Ahhhh that was brilliant I dont get the ending at all but I liked it and I liked that it

looped back to bring yer wan back

I TOTALLY did not see any of that coming

I thought the time dilation thing was very well done as well

I loooove michelle gomez so much she was brilliant in time enough

FunLover18

What was that!?!?

Seriously? I'm not rewatching The Pilot so can someone remind me what Star Eye turned out to be, wasn't she just fuel or something? How does that give her the power to do what she did? I'm so confused!!

Who changed the Cyberman programming so that it targeted humans again and why did it need to be an hour long?

Doctor DooM

SPoiley spoiley spoiley spoil...

If it were me and I had to write myself out of the hole the series found itself in, I would have had the doctorwake on the scorched earth of the ship. Desperate as he is to not change,
he leeches the start of his regenerative energy off himself and feeds it into Bill. BOOM she busts out of the cyber suit, whole again. She falls unconscious from the ordeal.

Weakened, The Doctor delivers her to the eye Captain pilot Megan thing. "I don't know what happens now, she deserves better than what I've put her through. Give her better."

Pilot thingy says thank you and vanishes, and the Doc is alone in the Tardis and the regeneration energy begins again, and we get the same ending

Internally consistent, no deus ex watery thing, leaves us in the exact same place we are now.

pixelburp

An emotional finale really, where the focus seemed geared more towards the 'soft' arc that trickled through the season, ending on the key difference between the Doctor and the Master / Missy as people, the Cybermen being a sideshow really. Sure, we've had stories where the two characters have been compared and contrasted with each other - Simm's first appearance essentially moulded him as the anti-Doctor, but here it felt more about the key differences in what made them tick, and how both characters dealt with a no-win scenario. And while the cliche about not seeing the body doesn't quite apply here, the door is left open enough that another iteration of the Master could return.

As for the ending, well Bill's was more than a little convenient, but really that has been a curse of the 2005 vintage Dr. Who since it returned: Moffat is no less guilty of that form of writing than RTD. Complaining about it now feels a little redundant, even if it cheapened the fate of Bill just a smidge. Regarding the Doctor,

I think Capaldi's anger about regenerating, that he can't keep doing this all the time may be a clue as to Bradley's own appearance. The snowy setting could suggest Capaldi has been taken to the setting of his very first regeneration: the Arctic base of '10th Planet', which funnily enough, also featured those surgical-glove Cybermen too. It might serve as a form of another Christmas Carol style story, where the 'younger' Doctor shows Capaldi how he should accept his regeneration and the importance of moving onward.

CastorTroy wrote: »

Can time lords really just decide if they want to regenerate after surviving being shot by a cyberman multiple times and blown up by an explosion that could wipe out the cybermen? I know he's fighting it but still.

Yeah there was a tonne of dramatic license being used there, but

I suppose if you wanted to take some canon into consideration, Capaldi's the first in new series of regenerations, given to him by the Time Lords, so perhaps he has more vigour to hold back a regeneration at the start, than neared the end of a cycle...

jasonb

FunLover18 wrote: »

Who changed the Cyberman programming so that it targeted humans again and why did it need to be an hour long?

A lot of questions I can't answer about that finale, even though I really enjoyed it, but this one I can answer. If I remember correctly, The Doctor didn't change the programming so that it changed from Humans to Time Lords, he changed the programming so that it included Time Lords as well as Humans (basically by saying one or two hearts). So The Cybermen were after HUmans and Time Lords...

Doctor DooM

pixelburp wrote: »

Yeah there was a tonne of dramatic license being used there, but

I suppose if you wanted to take some canon into consideration, Capaldi's the first in new series of regenerations, given to him by the Time Lords, so perhaps he has more vigour to hold back a regeneration at the start, than neared the end of a cycle...

Everything to do with regeneration seems to be much more controllable in the modern series. You can use some of it to heal other people,
you can take a potion to decide your personality, you can delay it for weeks and weeks to go see your old friends one last time. You can use the shooting energy to destroy an entire fleet of Daleks if it's a new cycle! That said AFAIR Romana chose her regeneration willingly so control over it has been hinted at before.

The latest one is relatively mild compared to 10's!

Angron

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Everything to do with regeneration seems to be much more controllable in the modern series. You can use some of it to heal other people,
you can take a potion to decide your personality, you can delay it for weeks and weeks to go see your old friends one last time. You can use the shooting energy to destroy an entire fleet of Daleks if it's a new cycle! That said AFAIR Romana chose her regeneration willingly so control over it has been hinted at before.

The latest one is relatively mild compared to 10's!

And Second to Third, the Doctor was shown a selection of faces that he could choose for his regeneration too. Not really an individual controlling it, but not far off the Sisterhood of Karn and their potion.

ebbsy

Things that really grinded my gears about that episode :

1) No Master's Tardis

2) Trump jokes. He is on TV every ten seconds, d'ont need it again.

3) The forcing of Bill's sexuality down our throats. Who cares ?

4) Making a mockery of the regeneration process (not for the first time either)

It was going just grand until towards the end I thought ?

Goodshape

ebbsy wrote: »

3) The forcing of Bill's sexuality down our throats. Who cares ?

Honestly now, how exactly was that forced down your throat? Lots of companions (I think maybe all of them?) have had a relationship on this show, why do you feel one kiss with Bill is suddenly going too far?

Are you sure the issue isn't with you?

wench

Goodshape wrote: »

Honestly now, how exactly was that forced down your throat? It just was. Lots of companions (I think maybe all of them?) have had a relationship on this show, why do you feel one kiss with Bill is suddenly going too far?

Are you sure the issue isn't with you?

Rose, Amy and Clara all brought their fellas along, and I didn't see any complaints about their sexuality being "forced down our throats"

pixelburp

ebbsy wrote: »

Things that really grinded my gears about that episode :
[...]
3) The forcing of Bill's sexuality down our throats. Who cares ?

Well, I guess you care for starters, as you mentioned it But as I'm struggling to think of any explicit moment that felt like the show was ramming Bill's sexuality down our throats (other than a few funny gags meant to subvert her own personal experiences, and that encompassed her race too), I'm equally struggling to imagine how Bill might have behaved any less nonchalant about her preferences. You'd think she was behaving like Captain Jack and flirting with anyone female in the room...

Penn

pixelburp wrote: »

Well, I guess you care for starters, as you mentioned it But as I'm struggling to think of any explicit moment that felt like the show was ramming Bill's sexuality down our throats (other than a few funny gags meant to subvert her own personal experiences, and that encompassed her race too), I'm equally struggling to imagine how Bill might have behaved any less nonchalant about her preferences. You'd think she was behaving like Captain Jack and flirting with anyone female in the room...

If they rammed anything down our throats in the last few episodes it was that The Doctor can regenerate into a woman. They mentioned it a lot, and needlessly so given that we already know Time Lords can do it (The General & Missy).

ebbsy

It was all jammed in just for the sake of it.

Just like the Piper scenes as well, in fact.

pixelburp

pixelburp wrote: »

Well, I guess you care for starters, as you mentioned it But as I'm struggling to think of any explicit moment that felt like the show was ramming Bill's sexuality down our throats (other than a few funny gags meant to subvert her own personal experiences, and that encompassed her race too), I'm equally struggling to imagine how Bill might have behaved any less nonchalant about her preferences. You'd think she was behaving like Captain Jack and flirting with anyone female in the room...

I'm gonna have to disagree with ebbsy as well. Cpt Jack is a great reminder!!

pixelburp

ebbsy wrote: »

It was all jammed in just for the sake of it.

Just like the Piper scenes as well, in fact.

For the sake of what though? Cos most of the time it was for the sake of a bit of comedy, such as the scene with her date bumping into the Pope, or her total lack of nous when chatting to the blue alien or Romans. It's not like the plot came to a screeching halt so the Doctor could accost some dreadful bigot and tell us how those people are bad.

And yeah, she made sure the Doctor knew she wasn't into him, just on the verrrry off chance there was some sort of Doctor-companion lust going on. But as if that'd ever happen, eh! :cool:

I'm curious: did you feel the same with Captain Jack? I find the accusations of, ahem, ramming, a little daft given Jack's infamously brazen behaviour.

Rigor Mortis

Was it just me, or was there a little tip of that hat to Blakes 7 in the shuttle craft

Busi_Girl08

Loved the episode, as corny as it was, I'm a sucker for a good

power of love saves the day

ending. Although I will admit it was a smidgen too similar to

Clara's ending

.

I also loved the (supposed) conclusion to the Master/Missy storyline.

I can't wait for the Christmas ep, loved

David Bradley as One and can't wait to see him properly sink his teeth into the role, as opposed to his role as Hartnell

.

I can't help but wonder are we going to get a cameo of

Susan or even Reece Shearsmith as a newly regenerated Two?

pixelburp

RopeDrink wrote: »

Linked it before but linking it again - get this clip down you and remember it. I'm calling a reappearance @ XMas and demand free Mochas if I'm correct.

Mod request: If RopeDrink's correct, please send him a free mocha. If he's wrong, buy yourself a mocha and send him a picture of it.



Re. Xmas: I mean we're only going by that one scene, but it really does seem like

it could be the Arctic setting of 10th Planet, and that the plot will be some dove-tailing of the two doctor's oncoming regeneration.

Plus, given that final episode of 10th Planet is missing & lost to time, bar a few scratchy seconds of the regeneration, it'd actually be pretty awesome if Moffat & co. went about recreating those lost scenes; like Busi_Girl08 said, maybe Reece Shearsmith could pop up for a cameo to really round off the recreation. Seems like a genuine opportunity for something pretty cool.

Mr.Saturn

It seems Capaldi's exit is a more franchise-conscious redo of 10's exit. 10 never really got around to accepting the end, as RTD really wanted to muster up some death stakes (new regime be damned) and it left something of a slight cloud over 11's entrance.

CramCycle

I would absolutely love if they actually had a proper twist and Capaldi just stayed on.

They had a brilliant opportunity at the end with that tear BS bringing him back, where they could have just as easily said, no regeneration needed as he was resurrected. That would have been a twist,
or they could have left us hanging with the thought it was a possibility.
But no, lets just start the christmas tree arms ASAP. I wish one of the regenerations he just got shot and stood up from behind the table after everyone had left thinking he was dead as someone else. You could even have a great episode with localised time shifts where he meets his regeneration and just thinks it is a crazy person.

Rant over, better episode than I expected.

Doctor DooM

CramCycle wrote: »

I would absolutely love if they actually had a proper twist and Capaldi just stayed on. .

They already did that with David Tennant

Doctor DooM

RopeDrink wrote: »

Hope they tone down the 'regeneration messing', personally. Resisting it to some degree, fine. Regenerating into yourself? Ehhh.... Regeneration 'magic'? Ugh. It was always the sign of finality rather than a device or usable power, so just makes me cringe when they do weird nonsense with it. Just my 2cents.

100% agree- Regeneration should be a sign that he's "died". He's sacrificed himself, given all he can. It's over, and that's his funeral pyre. Messing about with it (that Tennant stuff especially) removes some of the drama from it.

Busi_Girl08

Doctor DooM wrote: »

100% agree- Regeneration should be a sign that he's "died". He's sacrificed himself, given all he can. It's over, and that's his funeral pyre. Messing about with it (that Tennant stuff especially) removes some of the drama from it.

I agree too. Smith's and Eccleston's hit the right mark, they were completely at peace with it, everyone they knew and loved were safe, ready to move forward to new adventures. (although with Ecc I think it was a bit more "right, I'm off!!")

I miss the quiet dignity that goes with regeneration from yesteryear.

Wibbs

The Smith one was a bit longwinded in fairness. I liked Eccy's. In the olden days of yore, I thought Tom Baker's was also longwinded at the time(and really odd with all the ghostly "watcher" stuff). I know he'd been such a fixture as the Doc for so long, but even so...

Rigor Mortis

Ecce's was my fave but even though I was no fan of DT, his exit did tug at the strings.

flazio

Smith to Capaldi ended up just being a sneeze.