Terrorist Attack in Manchester (Read MOD WARNING in OP Updated 24/05/2017))

Danzy · 24-05-2017 02:11PM

In the past Britain planted a hostile culture and belief system in to Ireland and it was at great cost violence damage to Ireland, it is still a problematic issue.

There are unique difference and please don't use this as an excuse to go off topic.

They have done the same now to their own land and the consequences will be along the same vein.

Culture matters, beliefs matter, skin colour doesn't.

Unfortunately that is something the modern left have forgotten and the Corporate Right just don't care as long as people are buying.

Things like this will damage growth after a while though.

murpho999 · 24-05-2017 02:12PM

Exeggcute wrote: »

Speak for yourself.

That article and its author should not be dismissed so flippantly as the manner in which you did.

I haven't done that.

I'm dismissing your non arguments.

I said that not everything in the article has come through as planned, which it hasn't.

I don't see how you can argue that it has.

24-05-2017 02:12PM

Gamebred wrote: »

No I've visited many times though, its an actual fact that the Irish people are the minority there, 60% of the population are middle eastern immigrants.

And what is your problem exactly with that?
60% are Middle Eastern, OK, can you explain why you have an issue with that?

markodaly · 24-05-2017 02:23PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

In a sea of sensationalism and hypocrisy it is sadly way too much to ask that the British people take some time for quiet and realistic introspection about their states role in why the world is how it is.
Bombarded with The Sun headlines they wont consider the calm reasonable message here and will re-install the Tories:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-corbyn-anti-intervention-middle-east-manchester-attack-libya-foreign-policy-a7752706.html

Victim blaming much?

DrumSteve · 24-05-2017 02:27PM

I always enjoy the cartoons of David Squires in the Guardian but this one is just brilliant; especially the last part:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2017/may/24/david-squires-on-manchester-a-city-united

markodaly · 24-05-2017 02:27PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No Fred, I merely suggested that it was very handy for a PM who is facing a general election to be able to sound reassuringly Churchillian.

So you think this was some sort of false flag operation?

munsterlegend · 24-05-2017 02:29PM

ollie1 wrote: »

BBC Studio in Salford has just been evacuated while live on air

Back on air again so just a false alarm

Danzy · 24-05-2017 02:32PM

markodaly wrote: »

Victim blaming much?

The left today have lost all reasoning or logic on this topic.

The countries that have largely had the most brutal attacks are ones that opposed the invasion of Iraq and the War on Terror.

People are getting quite sore over having to listen to excuses for people who largely couldn't find Syria, Libya or Iraq on a map, who have no familial tie rubbing out people and that line be trotted out.

Things like Atheism and Gay Rights are a bigger motivator to them than recent invasions, they are straight forward on that. Al Qaeda stressed how it was the presence of disbelievers in Arabia that was a key motivation rather than sanctions or the first gulf war.

SkepticQuark · 24-05-2017 02:33PM

Danzy wrote: »

The left today have lost all reasoning or logic on this topic.

The countries that have largely had the most brutal attacks are ones that opposed the invasion of Iraq and the War on Terror.

People are getting quite sore over having to listen to excuses for people who largely couldn't find Syria, Libya or Iraq on a map, who have no familial tie rubbing out people and that line be trotted out.

Things like Atheism and Gay Rights are a bigger motivator to them than recent invasions, they are straight forward on that. Al Qaeda stressed how it was the presence of disbelievers in Arabia that was a key motivation rather than sanctions or the first gulf war.

Generalising much?

Danzy · 24-05-2017 02:38PM

roddy15 wrote: »

Generalising much?

I should have included "broadly"

GritBiscuit · 24-05-2017 02:38PM

Danzy wrote: »

In the past Britain planted a hostile culture and belief system in to Ireland and it was at great cost violence damage to Ireland, it is still a problematic issue.

There are unique difference and please don't use this as an excuse to go off topic.

They have done the same now to their own land and the consequences will be along the same vein.

As comforting as those sentiment may sound; there is precious little about the close Irish ties with the US/UK (plane refuelling anyone?), the giving of equal social status to women, the dress/manner women in Ireland conduct themselves that wouldn't attract similar attacks and for which these terrorists would find ample justifications for inflicting.

I think it much more likely the fact Ireland is a fairly minute player on the global stage and thus considered far less of a "prize" to attack that has kept the extremist attacks at bay to date.

ScumLord · 24-05-2017 02:42PM

Danzy wrote: »

The left today have lost all reasoning or logic on this topic.

The countries that have largely had the most brutal attacks are ones that opposed the invasion of Iraq and the War on Terror.

People are getting quite sore over having to listen to excuses for people who largely couldn't find Syria, Libya or Iraq on a map, who have no familial tie rubbing out people and that line be trotted out.

Things like Atheism and Gay Rights are a bigger motivator to them than recent invasions, they are straight forward on that. Al Qaeda stressed how it was the presence of disbelievers in Arabia that was a key motivation rather than sanctions or the first gulf war.

"The left" aren't a real thing. It's an over simplification of politics that the media have pushed out to people that like simple solutions to complex problems.

FrancieBrady · 24-05-2017 02:43PM

markodaly wrote: »

So you think this was some sort of false flag operation?

No. :rolleyes:

Danzy · 24-05-2017 02:45PM

GritBiscuit wrote: »

As comforting as those sentiment may sound; there is precious little about the close Irish ties with the US/UK (plane refuelling anyone?), the giving of equal social status to women, the dress/manner women in Ireland conduct themselves that wouldn't attract similar attacks and for which these terrorists would find ample justifications for inflicting.

I think it much more likely the fact Ireland is a fairly minute player on the global stage and thus considered far less of a "prize" to attack that has kept the extremist attacks at bay to date.

Ireland ticks every box for an attack, the ease of which Jihadis can leave here is part of it, what happens when one of the numerous fighters from Ireland start returning or the next tranche cannot travel.

We are a named target.

FrancieBrady · 24-05-2017 02:45PM

markodaly wrote: »

Victim blaming much?

22 dead people cannot do what I outlined above unfortunately, so I don't think I was 'victim blaming'.
Try reading the point again.

ScumLord · 24-05-2017 02:49PM

Danzy wrote: »

Ireland ticks every box for an attack, the ease of which Jihadis can leave here is part of it, what happens when one of the numerous fighters from Ireland start returning or the next tranche cannot travel.

We are a named target.

The fact it's not long since our own indigenous terrorists retired may put them off. It wouldn't surprise me if the IRA had dealings with people in that part of the world.

DrumSteve · 24-05-2017 02:53PM

Danzy wrote: »

Ireland ticks every box for an attack, the ease of which Jihadis can leave here is part of it, what happens when one of the numerous fighters from Ireland start returning or the next tranche cannot travel.

We are a named target.

From a global standpoint attacking a smaller target can make sense in the respect that if that they would attack us, where else would they attack?

Danzy · 24-05-2017 02:54PM

ScumLord wrote: »

The fact it's not long since our own indigenous terrorists retired may put them off. It wouldn't surprise me if the IRA had dealings with people in that part of the world.

Is a war against a brutal State police and a foreign army on your door step the same.

I can't judge anyone who fights a hostile state in their own land but there is a difference when a Jamaican born Christian, converts, cuts a Soldiers head off as he is walking to work in his home town.

Now stop trying to drag this thread off topic.

FrancieBrady · 24-05-2017 02:54PM

ScumLord wrote: »

The fact it's not long since our own indigenous terrorists retired may put them off. It wouldn't surprise me if the IRA had dealings with people in that part of the world.

Arms 'dealings' you mean? I would say quite a few groups and states have had such dealings.

Danzy · 24-05-2017 02:57PM

DrumSteve wrote: »

From a global standpoint attacking a smaller target can make sense in the respect that if that they would attack us, where else would they attack?

That is true, they will not hesitate for a second in providing help if someone here wants to attack.

While we have some of the highest rates of fighters of any where in Europe per capita, it is still coming from a small pool and that helps.

Exeggcute · 24-05-2017 02:58PM

Widdershins wrote: »

You're right it's not the main issue but don't you see that it's the exact same thinking behind all of the modesty garments? If not wearing one demonstrates the woman is unchaste and promiscuous then it's dangerous, imo. Especially if it means women can be seen as fair game, as they are in some strict places.
@Exeggcute: I have an Iranian friend who would say the very same as your girlfriend.

My girlfriend is Iranian. Amazing people and country but horrible regime. Saying that it still amazes me how they are vilified while the Saudi's are everyone's best friend. It is nauseating.

wonderfullife · 24-05-2017 03:00PM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Why quote old statistics? It's become glaringly apparent the number of these attacks and their casualties in recent years is becoming more deadly and frequent. T

In 2013 there were no ISIS related attacks in Western countries and non Muslim majority Countries like Russia. I know the Western countries angle is a selfish argument, a quick glance on the Wiki page will tell it's own story about what's happening in the world.

In 2014 there was 7 - 6 dead 12 injured
In 2015 there was 9 - 150+ dead 400+ injured
In 2016 there was 14 - 340+ dead 950+ injured
In 2017 there's been 4 so far, 70+ dead 180+ injured

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_linked_to_ISIL

pjohnson wrote: »

2006-2008 you do realise this is 2017?

You have a go at me for quoting the 2006-2008 stats and then cite 2013 stats to try make a point?

You also completely misrepresent the point too to try draw a pattern of increasing terrorist violence in western countries as if it's on a straight upward curve.

It MIGHT be but .....People were making the same points after 9/11 and the 2004 Madrid bombing and 2005 London bombing, saying it was ever-increasing yet as we all know we then went years without a terrorist incident in Europe.

It's also amusing to me every single time a Radical Islamist terror attack occurs you are straight into the thread to parrot the same right-wing talking points yet when Anders Breivik massacred 77 people in 2011, you were extremely quiet.

In fact, you didn't make a single post on any of those threads.

Wonder why that is? Because Breivik was a right-wing extremist who didn't believe in Allah?

You can call it whataboutism if you want but you lose all moral high ground if you are only arsed when a Muslim commits a terrorist atrocity and care little when anyone else does it.

All thread, I've been consistent in my views that the threat of Radical Islamic terrorism in the UK is REAL and PRESENT but it's nowhere near the hyperbolic levels you people make it out to be when you talk about internment and mass deportations.

You'd swear going into Birmingham and locking everyone up without trial would actually solve the problem. SMH.

The_Kew_Tour · 24-05-2017 03:05PM

In 2017

Dont agree with someone= call them a right winger

muppetshow · 24-05-2017 03:10PM

Jobs OXO wrote: »

Move along nothing to see here....

You should become a politician,you would suit perfectly with that attitude.
Thats how todays politicians handle the problem as well.

SkepticQuark · 24-05-2017 03:12PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

In 2017

Dont agree with someone= call them a right winger

I love people like you because if look at various posters you can find the fair share of people doing the whole "the left" usual talking points. Don't think we should have kill lists and witch hunts, oh you are leftist who wants open border policies and wants us to do nothing at all.

Nuance has died sadly in the minds of many people regardless of their political leanings.

munsterlegend · 24-05-2017 03:26PM

Danzy wrote: »

Ireland ticks every box for an attack, the ease of which Jihadis can leave here is part of it, what happens when one of the numerous fighters from Ireland start returning or the next tranche cannot travel.

We are a named target.

I would consider it highly unlikely save for a terrorist using us as a base to attack Britain from.

Pyr0 · 24-05-2017 03:28PM

Exeggcute wrote: »

My girlfriend is Iranian. Amazing people and country but horrible regime. Saying that it still amazes me how they are vilified while the Saudi's are everyone's best friend. It is nauseating.

The Saudi's will only be everyone's best friend as long as the oil keeps pumping. Once that's gone, they're finished.

The_Kew_Tour · 24-05-2017 03:32PM

roddy15 wrote: »

I love people like you because if look at various posters you can find the fair share of people doing the whole "the left" usual talking points. Don't think we should have kill lists and witch hunts, oh you are leftist who wants open border policies and wants us to do nothing at all.

Nuance has died sadly in the minds of many people regardless of their political leanings.

Thanks

Danzy · 24-05-2017 03:33PM

munsterlegend wrote: »

I would consider it highly unlikely save for a terrorist using us as a base to attack Britain from.

There is no valid reason and States that have been more appeasing towards radical Islam, even its worst manifestations, who have directly opposed British and American excursions in the past have been hit hard.

We are a named target, there is no shortage of ways that they could hit the world from here, Google, Facebook etc all have globally significant HQ's here.

Gay Pride marches, the odd Jewish School etc.

We will have an incident in time but it may be a very long time.

kopite386 · 24-05-2017 03:39PM

The GMP just said one of the victims was a serving police officer but won't release the name of them yet due to family wishes.
All families of the injured have been informed and the post mortem of the deceased will take 4 to 5 days due to the number of victims and after which all the names will then be released

Terrorist Attack in Manchester (Read MOD WARNING in OP Updated 24/05/2017))

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