Terrorist Attack in Manchester (Read MOD WARNING in OP Updated 24/05/2017))

ScumLord · 24-05-2017 01:08PM

Exeggcute wrote: »

My girlfriend is Muslim and even she has remarked on the amount of Muslims here not integrating.

In particular she can't understand the women wearing the headscarves and face veils. She said they are brainwashed.

I don't know why but women are particularly susceptible to religion even though they're treated the worst by it. Just look in any church in Ireland during mass and I'd bet the majority are women.

SkepticQuark · 24-05-2017 01:10PM

Exeggcute wrote: »

My girlfriend is Muslim and even she has remarked on the amount of Muslims here not integrating.

In particular she can't understand the women wearing the headscarves and face veils. She said they are brainwashed.

She gets really mad at the celebrity types that have recently taken up campaigns to embrace the headscarf. She said they should go and live in Saudi Arabia for a while and then see if they still feel the same.

To be honest, people wearing simple headscarves is hardly the main issue. I'd be more concerned about people wearing clothing that basically covers everything except their eyes which I've seen in Ireland now and again.

gitzy16v · 24-05-2017 01:12PM

UK police doing more raids around Manchester according to Sky
Granby House Apartments raided.

Exeggcute · 24-05-2017 01:16PM

murpho999 wrote: »

Ok, good argument there, absolutely nothing of substance in your argument.

Speak for yourself.

That article and its author should not be dismissed so flippantly as the manner in which you did.

The_Kew_Tour · 24-05-2017 01:16PM

Only heard this on Newstalk about 15 minutes ago, but Irish Governement getting together tomorrow to set out plans to deal with similar attack here.

Can't see any link online or any website, so only going on Newstalk.

testaccount123 · 24-05-2017 01:16PM

roddy15 wrote: »

To be honest, people wearing simple headscarves is hardly the main issue. I'd be more concerned about people wearing clothing that basically covers everything except their eyes which I've seen in Ireland now and again.

Agreed. The number of people walking around outside the school in Blackpitts in full body and face cover every morning is a bit alarming. Surely this is a security issue? Where else would it be acceptable to wade into a crowd of children with your face covered up?

Fratton Fred · 24-05-2017 01:18PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And Theresa just happens to be available to announce it in Churchillian stiff upper lip fashion all over prime time media.

Which has nothing to do with whether it is the right thing to do or not of course.

She's theprimeminister of a country that has just had 22 people murdered in a terrorist attack, did you think she would take advantage of the break in campaigning to pop to Majorca for a few days?

FFS :rolleyes:

FrancieBrady wrote: »

In a sea of sensationalism and hypocrisy it is sadly way too much to ask that the British people take some time for quiet and realistic introspection about their states role in why the world is how it is.
Bombarded with The Sun headlines they wont consider the calm reasonable message here and will re-install the Tories:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-corbyn-anti-intervention-middle-east-manchester-attack-libya-foreign-policy-a7752706.html

regime change in Iraq was brought about by a Labour government, so maybe we should avoid reinstalling them.

Regime change in Libya was brought about by the people, as part of the Arab spring, or are you going to blame the UK for regime change in Tunisia and Egypt as well?

bodhrandude · 24-05-2017 01:18PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Only heard this on Newstalk about 15 minutes ago, but Irish Governement getting together tomorrow to set out plans to deal with similar attack here.

Can't see any link online or any website, so only going on Newstalk.

They were discussing on Prime Time last night, Its up on the RTE player.

ScumLord · 24-05-2017 01:19PM

testaccount123 wrote: »

Agreed. The number of people walking around outside the school in Blackpitts in full body and face cover every morning is a bit alarming. Surely this is a security issue? Where else would it be acceptable to wade into a crowd of children with your face covered up?

There are no laws about covering your face. What about when it gets cold and you want to cover your face? What if you're a biker and just want to do something off your bike for a minute? You'd erode all our freedoms just to punish Muslims.

Exeggcute · 24-05-2017 01:21PM

roddy15 wrote: »

To be honest, people wearing simple headscarves is hardly the main issue. I'd be more concerned about people wearing clothing that basically covers everything except their eyes which I've seen in Ireland now and again.

Yeah that's what I meant by the face veils. The headscarves bother her too though. She said if they want to live like that they should have stayed where they were.

Though she did say that some of the women are so conditioned to wear the scarves in public that they actually find it difficult and uncomfortable to just suddenly ditch the scarf.

My own girlfriend felt similar when she arrived here and she comes from a very liberal Muslim family, she couldn't wait to enjoy her freedom here but found it strange and a little uncomfortable st first all the same.

mikeybrennan · 24-05-2017 01:22PM

gitzy16v wrote: »

UK police doing more raids around Manchester according to Sky
Granby House Apartments raided.

I'd say it's getting harder for police to make significant arrests after attacks.

Prob no connection between terrorist and any useful arrest

Will I Am Not · 24-05-2017 01:23PM

ScumLord wrote: »

There are no laws about covering your face. What about when it gets cold and you want to cover your face? What if you're a biker and just want to do something off your bike for a minute? You'd erode all our freedoms just to punish Muslims.

If you went and hung around a school in a balaclava and a black gown you wouldn't be there long before you were explaining yourself to Gardaí.

Masala · 24-05-2017 01:24PM

ScumLord wrote: »

There are no laws about covering your face. What about when it gets cold and you want to cover your face? What if you're a biker and just want to do something off your bike for a minute? You'd erode all our freedoms just to punish Muslims.

There is a law in France!!

FrancieBrady · 24-05-2017 01:24PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

She's theprimeminister of a country that has just had 22 people murdered in a terrorist attack, did you think she would take advantage of the break in campaigning to pop to Majorca for a few days?

FFS :rolleyes:

No Fred, I merely suggested that it was very handy for a PM who is facing a general election to be able to sound reassuringly Churchillian.
You are entitled to view that as you wish.

regime change in Iraq was brought about by a Labour government, so maybe we should avoid reinstalling them.

Regime change in Libya was brought about by the people, as part of the Arab spring, or are you going to blame the UK for regime change in Tunisia and Egypt as well?

Again, what I said was, it is sad that amid all the sensationalism and hypocrisy that the British people will not have the chance to quietly inspect their state's role (role - not 100% blame) in why this is happening.

Perhaps if you toned down the fervent, disparaging defence you might see what is actually being written.

BTW: The article clearly states that Corbyn was against what Blair and others did in the middle east.

testaccount123 · 24-05-2017 01:25PM

ScumLord wrote: »

There are no laws about covering your face. What about when it gets cold and you want to cover your face? What if you're a biker and just want to do something off your bike for a minute? You'd erode all our freedoms just to punish Muslims.

A good example of how we cant even look at mitigating risk in case we offend.

Id venture Bikers shouldnt be allowed go around with their face covered in the middle of crowds of children outside schools either.

Exeggcute · 24-05-2017 01:25PM

Gaddafi would have clung to power if NATO hadn't intervened.

Fratton Fred · 24-05-2017 01:27PM

Exeggcute wrote: »

Gaddafi would have clung to power if NATO hadn't intervened.

in the same way Assad has.

Richard Hillman · 24-05-2017 01:28PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Only heard this on Newstalk about 15 minutes ago, but Irish Governement getting together tomorrow to set out plans to deal with similar attack here.

Can't see any link online or any website, so only going on Newstalk.

Probably planning appropriate hashtags and candle vigil locations.

munsterlegend · 24-05-2017 01:32PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Probably planning appropriate hashtags and candle vigil locations.

Memories of Father Ted and another mass spring to mind..

RocketRaccoon · 24-05-2017 01:33PM

ScumLord wrote: »

There are no laws about covering your face. What about when it gets cold and you want to cover your face? What if you're a biker and just want to do something off your bike for a minute? You'd erode all our freedoms just to punish Muslims.

I'm not allowed wear a helmet or hood in a petrol station. Are these people told to remove the clothing covering their faces?

Widdershins · 24-05-2017 01:34PM

roddy15 wrote: »

To be honest, people wearing simple headscarves is hardly the main issue. I'd be more concerned about people wearing clothing that basically covers everything except their eyes which I've seen in Ireland now and again.

You're right it's not the main issue but don't you see that it's the exact same thinking behind all of the modesty garments? If not wearing one demonstrates the woman is unchaste and promiscuous then it's dangerous, imo. Especially if it means women can be seen as fair game, as they are in some strict places.
@Exeggcute: I have an Iranian friend who would say the very same as your girlfriend.

Mint Sauce · 24-05-2017 01:39PM

Sounds like Britain is preparing for a lock down again. Remember after 9/11 and the increased presence of armed police at airports, and then a further increase after 7/7 at other public transport infrastructures, and other potential targets, and whilst slightly taken aback when seeing them first, I now don't bait an eyelid. Going over again in a few weeks, and now expecting to see the Army on patrol. This, on top of the Manchester attack, is going to scare a lot of people, they are not going to go out, people are going to fear for their civil liberties, my other concern, are going to be the Army powers, they don't have power of arrest as far as I know, are they going to be allowed to takeout a potential target, and what are the consequences if they get it wrong.

munsterlegend · 24-05-2017 01:47PM

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Sounds like Britain is preparing for a lock down again. Remember after 9/11 and the increased presence of armed police at airports, and then a further increase after 7/7 at other public transport infrastructures, and other potential targets, and whilst slightly taken aback when seeing them first, I now don't bait an eyelid. Going over again in a few weeks, and now expecting to see the Army on patrol. This, on top of the Manchester attack, is going to scare a lot of people, they are not going to go out, people are going to fear for their civil liberties, my other concern, are going to be the Army powers, they don't have power of arrest as far as I know, are they going to be allowed to takeout a potential target, and what are the consequences if they get it wrong.

This critical level will end in a few days provided no further incident. I see where Chelsea have cancelled their victory parade on Sunday..is that not in a way conceding that the attack can influence unrelated events and that terror has succeeded?

sjb25 · 24-05-2017 01:59PM

Army and police together carrying out raids according to Sky

ScumLord · 24-05-2017 02:01PM

testaccount123 wrote: »

A good example of how we cant even look at mitigating risk in case we offend.

It's got nothing to do with offending people. It's impracticable and you're not thinking about it. You think you're specifically targeting Muslims but you're not.

Id venture Bikers shouldnt be allowed go around with their face covered in the middle of crowds of children outside schools either.

But if I wore a mickey mouse mask I'd probably have parents bringing their kids over to take pictures with me. I come from a small town and people go around wearing helmets and nobody get's upset about it because he's known to people. Nobody is going to enforce the law on him, until he gets in an argument with someone and they report him out of spite.

Would we have to ban halloween and fancy dress too? Or would we just ignore the a face covering ban when it's not Muslims?

mikeybrennan · 24-05-2017 02:06PM

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Sounds like Britain is preparing for a lock down again. Remember after 9/11 and the increased presence of armed police at airports, and then a further increase after 7/7 at other public transport infrastructures, and other potential targets, and whilst slightly taken aback when seeing them first, I now don't bait an eyelid. Going over again in a few weeks, and now expecting to see the Army on patrol. This, on top of the Manchester attack, is going to scare a lot of people, they are not going to go out, people are going to fear for their civil liberties, my other concern, are going to be the Army powers, they don't have power of arrest as far as I know, are they going to be allowed to takeout a potential target, and what are the consequences if they get it wrong.

They will be instructed by police to take out a target

For consequences see the menenez(spelling?) case

ollie1 · 24-05-2017 02:06PM

BBC Studio in Salford has just been evacuated while live on air

Danzy · 24-05-2017 02:06PM

munsterlegend wrote: »

This critical level will end in a few days provided no further incident. I see where Chelsea have cancelled their victory parade on Sunday..is that not in a way conceding that the attack can influence unrelated events and that terror has succeeded?

Probably the greatest lie we are told at the moment that things like this "will not change our society, values or lives".

It is early days yet and the changes are already happening, in parts of Europe they are profound.

Children needing armed patrols for their transport, outside their Schools, concerts with crash barriers and armed surveillance, the political changes, the economic changes, societal changes.

In all good faith could the British police not have armed police, crash barrier lined streets at a gay pride parade in England.

It would be negligent of them to not.

That is the smallest change that will come.

bodhrandude · 24-05-2017 02:07PM

Three arrested so far in South Manchester. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2017/may/24/manchester-arena-bombing-terror-attack-victims-threat-critical-ariana-grande-concert-live-news

Conservative · 24-05-2017 02:08PM

Exeggcute wrote: »

Yeah that's what I meant by the face veils. The headscarves bother her too though. She said if they want to live like that they should have stayed where they were.

Though she did say that some of the women are so conditioned to wear the scarves in public that they actually find it difficult and uncomfortable to just suddenly ditch the scarf.

My own girlfriend felt similar when she arrived here and she comes from a very liberal Muslim family, she couldn't wait to enjoy her freedom here but found it strange and a little uncomfortable st first all the same.

Is your girlfriend a practicing Muslim? My best friend dated a Turkish Muslim girl for a few years in college. She was Muslim only in name but went along with it to please her family. He younger brother was pretty much the same.

There are many non believers in similar situations due to the backlash they face from family/community etc.

Terrorist Attack in Manchester (Read MOD WARNING in OP Updated 24/05/2017))

Comments