Terrorist Attack in Manchester (Read MOD WARNING in OP Updated 24/05/2017))

muppetshow · 24-05-2017 05:45AM

roddy15 wrote: »

Can I actually see that because I can't find that claim anywhere? Call me sceptical but I don't really want to randomly believe stuff.

You need to see it to believe it you mean,how about joining IS,they will fill you in about the details.

muppetshow · 24-05-2017 05:50AM

......... wrote: »

I'm not the one making any distinctions between terrorists who murder women and children, you are.

No you said last terrorattack was in 1996,who was it,another religious nutcase driven by a religious ideology maybe?
And IRAs goal was not to kill women and children,but to hurt the economy and finances in the UK,and they had to give in at the end.

Hank Scorpio · 24-05-2017 05:57AM

wonderfullife wrote: »

Ben Shapiro is hardly an authority on Islam or without bias - He's a right-wing pundit, former Steve Bannon bff and his target audience are right-wing people.

Granted I actually think he's a reasonable enough guy (at times).

So what if he's right wing, that's not even an argument against what the video is citing, it's you saying he has different beliefs than me therefore he isn't worth listening to and his argument somehow has less credibility. It's the type of thing that plays perfectly into the reputation certain elements of the Political spectrum have garnered in recent years.

He cited statistics and made a well rounded compelling argument, but you dismiss it because *derp* he's right wing. Look up why he left Breitbart if you think he's only saying things to appease certain people.

wonderfullife · 24-05-2017 06:09AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

But he is blatantly misrepresenting it.
Someone who holds the opinion that a cartoonist should face legal prosecution for drawing cartoons of Mohammed is not a definite proof of radical Islam.....it isn't even a proof of Islam.......if it was, it would mean that anyone who had any support for the Irish blasphemy law was a radical Islamist.

That video was a complete train wreck hit-job on Islam.

It'd be like saying if 48% of Irish believe in abortion then 3.2 million Irish are radical christians because it also makes the next huge and stupid assumption that everyone in the country is a practicing christian.

More importantly it doesn't differentiate between radical and radicalised. So even if 3.2 million Irish were "radical", the cut-off and distinction would be between those who just hold an opinion and those who are out punching doctors who refuse to perform abortions.

It's the stupidest video I've ever seen to promote a far-right-wing agenda and to conflate nearly a billion people in Islam with being potential terrorists.

All religions are nuts in my view. They base their core beliefs on books written or stories told thousands of years ago. It'd be like humans of the future having a religion of Santa Claus based on ancient stories of a bearded man with incredible powers.

Currently, Islam is the one taking all the heat and we hear crickets on here about the Christian terrorist groups like the Anti-Balaka in the Central African Republic or the Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda who commit genocide against Muslims (amongst others) in the name of Jesus Christ.

https://www.europol.europa.eu/latest_publications/2

99.6% of terrorist attacks in Europe for the period 2006-2008 (3 years) were committed by non-Islam terror groups.

0.4% by Islamists.

But yeah Radical Islam is the existential threat to our European way of life.....

ps. half of these fools committing these acts like the one in Manchester aren't even religious - all accounts have said this guy didn't even practice his faith until 'very recently'. I agree with Donald Trump about once in a blue moon but he's 100% correct - they are just losers in life looking for infamy in death.

Any excuse will do.

Hank Scorpio · 24-05-2017 06:45AM

wonderfullife wrote: »

Any excuse will do.

Why quote old statistics? It's become glaringly apparent the number of these attacks and their casualties in recent years is becoming more deadly and frequent. This dumbfounded logic like arguing about the IRA and things that have happened in the past is nothing more than painstaking deflection, just like the Catholic argument.

What's also become obvious is that people from certain regions fail to integrate properly into developed society. Merkel herself on multiple occasions has admitted this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/12/14/angela-merkel-multiculturalism-is-a-sham/?utm_term=.41d412a7862a

"Multiculturalism leads to parallel societies and therefore remains a ‘life lie,’ ” or a sham, she said, before adding that Germany may be reaching its limits in terms of accepting more refugees. "The challenge is immense," she said. "We want and we will reduce the number of refugees noticeably."

This is what she said 5 years prior.

"Of course the tendency had been to say, 'let's adopt the multicultural concept and live happily side by side, and be happy to be living with each other'. But this concept has failed, and failed utterly,"

Ben's argument is that the majority of Muslims support Sharia law, and a substantial portion support things like suicide bombings. Half of the Muslims in the UK think Homosexuality should be illegal, compared to 5% of the rest of the population.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law

He's not saying there's a Billion terrorists, he's saying there's a foundation of support which breeds extremism in societies that don't attain to certain beliefs. I think you've missed the point of the video.

In 2013 there were no ISIS related attacks in Western countries and non Muslim majority Countries like Russia. I know the Western countries angle is a selfish argument, a quick glance on the Wiki page will tell it's own story about what's happening in the world.

In 2014 there was 7 - 6 dead 12 injured
In 2015 there was 9 - 150+ dead 400+ injured
In 2016 there was 14 - 340+ dead 950+ injured
In 2017 there's been 4 so far, 70+ dead 180+ injured

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_linked_to_ISIL

Obviously Political reasons play a part in why and when this started happening. We also have to remember that Europe is on a constant raised terror alert level because of this problem, without the security forces and intelligence gathering the numbers would be astronomically higher.

Jobs OXO · 24-05-2017 07:07AM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Why quote old statistics? It's become glaringly apparent the number of these attacks in recent years is becoming far more frequent. This dumbfounded logic like arguing about the IRA and things that have happened in the past is nothing more than painstaking deflection, just like the Catholic argument.

What's also become obvious is that people from certain regions fail to integrate properly into developed society. Merkel herself on multiple occasions has admitted this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/12/14/angela-merkel-multiculturalism-is-a-sham/?utm_term=.41d412a7862a

"Multiculturalism leads to parallel societies and therefore remains a ‘life lie,’ ” or a sham, she said, before adding that Germany may be reaching its limits in terms of accepting more refugees. "The challenge is immense," she said. "We want and we will reduce the number of refugees noticeably."

Ben's argument is that the majority of Muslims support Sharia law, and a substantial portion support things like suicide bombings. He's not saying there's a Billion terrorists, he's saying there's a foundation which breeds extremism to achieve Political beliefs. I think you've missed the point of the video.

In 2013 there were no ISIS related attacks in Western countries.
In 2014 there was 7 - 6 dead 12 injured
In 2015 there was 9 - 150+ dead 400+ injured
In 2016 there was 14 - 340+ dead 950+ injured
In 2017 there's been 4 so far, 70+ dead 180+ injured

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_linked_to_ISIL

I dunno about you, but there seems to be a pattern there.

Move along nothing to see here....

pjohnson · 24-05-2017 07:10AM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Why quote old statistics? It's become glaringly apparent the number of these attacks in recent years is becoming far more frequent. This dumbfounded logic like arguing about the IRA and things that have happened in the past is nothing more than painstaking deflection, just like the Catholic argument.

What's also become obvious is that people from certain regions fail to integrate properly into developed society. Merkel herself on multiple occasions has admitted this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/12/14/angela-merkel-multiculturalism-is-a-sham/?utm_term=.41d412a7862a

"Multiculturalism leads to parallel societies and therefore remains a ‘life lie,’ ” or a sham, she said, before adding that Germany may be reaching its limits in terms of accepting more refugees. "The challenge is immense," she said. "We want and we will reduce the number of refugees noticeably."

Ben's argument is that the majority of Muslims support Sharia law, and a substantial portion support things like suicide bombings. He's not saying there's a Billion terrorists, he's saying there's a foundation which breeds extremism to achieve Political beliefs. I think you've missed the point of the video.

In 2013 there were no ISIS related attacks in Western countries.
In 2014 there was 7 - 6 dead 12 injured
In 2015 there was 9 - 150+ dead 400+ injured
In 2016 there was 14 - 340+ dead 950+ injured
In 2017 there's been 4 so far, 70+ dead 180+ injured

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_linked_to_ISIL

I dunno about you, but there seems to be a pattern there.

Yes but these well educated people are working on a perfect solution for years. We must just cuddle these lovely muslims until they start to love us. We must not actively try to stop them. Thats racist bigotry if we pre-empt them.

pjohnson · 24-05-2017 07:13AM

wonderfullife wrote: »

That video was a complete train wreck hit-job on Islam.

It'd be like saying if 48% of Irish believe in abortion then 3.2 million Irish are radical christians because it also makes the next huge and stupid assumption that everyone in the country is a practicing christian.

More importantly it doesn't differentiate between radical and radicalised. So even if 3.2 million Irish were "radical", the cut-off and distinction would be between those who just hold an opinion and those who are out punching doctors who refuse to perform abortions.

It's the stupidest video I've ever seen to promote a far-right-wing agenda and to conflate nearly a billion people in Islam with being potential terrorists.

All religions are nuts in my view. They base their core beliefs on books written or stories told thousands of years ago. It'd be like humans of the future having a religion of Santa Claus based on ancient stories of a bearded man with incredible powers.

Currently, Islam is the one taking all the heat and we hear crickets on here about the Christian terrorist groups like the Anti-Balaka in the Central African Republic or the Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda who commit genocide against Muslims (amongst others) in the name of Jesus Christ.

https://www.europol.europa.eu/latest_publications/2

99.6% of terrorist attacks in Europe for the period 2006-2008 (3 years) were committed by non-Islam terror groups.

0.4% by Islamists.

But yeah Radical Islam is the existential threat to our European way of life.....

ps. half of these fools committing these acts like the one in Manchester aren't even religious - all accounts have said this guy didn't even practice his faith until 'very recently'. I agree with Donald Trump about once in a blue moon but he's 100% correct - they are just losers in life looking for infamy in death.

Any excuse will do.

2006-2008 you do realise this is 2017?

s3rtvdbwfj81ch · 24-05-2017 08:30AM

Threat Level "Critical", meaning the authorities believe another attack is "imminent" - meaning they can deploy soldiers to the streets.

Is this for the whole of the UK? Major cities?

Is Belfast a major city?

Ash.J.Williams · 24-05-2017 08:36AM

I know the root causes of this terrorism is complex and hard to discuss without offence, but the fate of the middle east needs to be taken out of America/UK/Russia's hands and a more human global effort is required. The UN is a disgrace and all the above are self serving Evil dictators just as bad as the dictators they butchered. Who are they to decide a country needs "regime change". So far they've "liberated" Libya, Iraq, Syria, doing their best to "liberate" yemen, all now destabilised and churning out "lone wolves". Selling weapons to Saudi ...the country that carried out f**ing 911!!

The pictures coming out of the young victims are absolutely heartbreaking, and I've just heard an auntie has been named, killed sheltering her neice....shocking stuff.

Wanderer78 · 24-05-2017 08:40AM

Ash.J.Williams wrote:

I know the root causes of this terrorism is complex and hard to discuss without offence, but the fate of the middle east needs to be taken out of America/UK/Russia's hands and a more human global effort is required. The UN is a disgrace and all the above are self serving Evil dictators just as bad as the dictators they butchered. Who are they to decide a country needs "regime change". So far they've "liberated" Libya, Iraq, Syria, doing their best to "liberate" yemen, all now destabilised and churning out "lone wolves". Selling weapons to Saudi ...the country that carried out f**ing 911!!

It's not just a liberating exercise, but they are also bringing 'democracy' to their lands, and who doesn't want that? I just don't get these middle easterns!

suicide_circus · 24-05-2017 08:41AM

Democracy does not work everywhere

sjb25 · 24-05-2017 08:43AM

Military to deploy to streets of uk as terrorist alert moved to critical

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/23/theresa-may-increases-uk-terrorist-alert-critical-manchester/

Least the UK government are trying something elese

FrancieBrady · 24-05-2017 08:49AM

sjb25 wrote: »

Military to deploy to streets of uk as terrorist alert moved to critical

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/23/theresa-may-increases-uk-terrorist-alert-critical-manchester/

Least the UK government are trying something elese

Or it suits a PM (who is falling in the polls) to look strong in the run up to an election?

conorhal · 24-05-2017 09:01AM

pjohnson wrote: »

2006-2008 you do realise this is 2017?

But...but..but between 492 BC and 490 there were no Islamic terror attacks in Europe at all, in fact, none anywhere in the world!!! Take that! (Bit of a problem with the Persians though...)

What amazes me is that some posters logical fallacies seem primarilly aimed at themselves, like some sort of psychological self-defence from reality.

mikeybrennan · 24-05-2017 09:01AM

Putting troops on the streets is mostly 'window dressing' isn't it

The British think there's a military solution to everything.
The problem is too big to contain militarily.

Wanderer78 · 24-05-2017 09:05AM

suicide_circus wrote:

Democracy does not work everywhere

Does it actually exist anywhere?

sjb25 · 24-05-2017 09:06AM

mikeybrennan wrote: »

Putting troops on the streets is mostly 'window dressing' isn't it

The British think there's a military solution to everything.
The problem is too big to contain militarily.

Oh yeah probably but at this stage a few extra guns around public events may be no harm as ****ed up as that seems

munsterlegend · 24-05-2017 09:17AM

This beefing up of security at key locations such as Downing Street is window dressing as no attack is likely to happen there as these lunatics seek soft targets and innocent people.

If there is a cell responsible for Manchester I suppose given the net might be closing in on therm they might try and go out fighting as happened on the continent.

Ash.J.Williams · 24-05-2017 09:24AM

munsterlegend wrote: »

This beefing up of security at key locations such as Downing Street is window dressing as no attack is likely to happen there as these lunatics seek soft targets and innocent people.

If there is a cell responsible for Manchester I suppose given the net might be closing in on therm they might try and go out fighting as happened on the continent.

I'd guess he got all his instruction etc in Libya last week and acted alone

mikeybrennan · 24-05-2017 09:26AM

They normally co-ordinate attacks simultaneously,don't they? So there'll hardly be more.

Would make no sense to stagger them.

They probably can't connect the bomber to anyone else either. The bomber prob just got the bomb and instructions and has no link back to anyone of significance

Ash.J.Williams · 24-05-2017 09:28AM

Dulce Early Thumbscrew wrote: »

Threat Level "Critical", meaning the authorities believe another attack is "imminent" - meaning they can deploy soldiers to the streets.

Is this for the whole of the UK? Major cities?

Is Belfast a major city?

I'd it's more geographical UK....If Belfast was a target so would the rest of ireland

mikeybrennan · 24-05-2017 09:34AM

I'd say the biggest problem right now is young British Muslims being radicalized online.

School and community level is where they have to win the battle for the hearts and minds of British Muslim youth imo

Richard Hillman · 24-05-2017 09:36AM

Dulce Early Thumbscrew wrote: »

Threat Level "Critical", meaning the authorities believe another attack is "imminent" - meaning they can deploy soldiers to the streets.

Is this for the whole of the UK? Major cities?

Is Belfast a major city?

Northern Ireland has a separate terror threat system.

rossie1977 · 24-05-2017 09:43AM

mikeybrennan wrote: »

I'd say the biggest problem right now is young British Muslims being radicalized online.

School and community level is where they have to win the battle for the hearts and minds of British Muslim youth imo

Young disenfranchised men with little opportunity/future. Its the same problem all over the world. These kind of people are perfect candidates for religious radicalization or gang membership/drug runners

You don't solve a problem like this through bombing targets in the middle east or imprisoning half the population. You deal with it through education/tackling poverty and creating jobs.

Richard Hillman · 24-05-2017 09:48AM

rossie1977 wrote: »

Young disenfranchised men with little opportunity/future. Its the same problem all over the world. These kind of people are perfect candidates for religious radicalization or gang membership/drug runners

You don't solve a problem like this through bombing targets in the middle east or imprisoning half the population. You deal with it through education/tackling poverty and creating jobs.

Hug a hoodie didn't work. The most deprived areas are the areas most invested in. The areas with the most "facilities" and near unlimited employment and education support. Absolutely zero change has occurred. Negative humans will be negative.

mikeybrennan · 24-05-2017 09:49AM

rossie1977 wrote: »

Young disenfranchised men with little opportunity/future. Its the same problem all over the world. These kind of people are perfect candidates for religious radicalization or gang membership/drug runners

You don't solve a problem like this through bombing targets in the middle east or imprisoning half the population. You deal with it through education/tackling poverty and creating jobs.

Yes

This is the community where the future bombers will come from.

There is no military prevention possible and these people cannot be deported.The most effort should go here .

Overseas policy and border control ,policing are smaller issues.

Richard Hillman · 24-05-2017 09:50AM

Another meeting of COBRA today. They'll be planning their response on what ISIS sites they can blow up. Sites they knew about and could have blown up on Sunday but needed an atrocity like this to make them do it.

Danzy · 24-05-2017 09:54AM

rossie1977 wrote: »

Young disenfranchised men with little opportunity/future. Its the same problem all over the world. These kind of people are perfect candidates for religious radicalization or gang membership/drug runners

You don't solve a problem like this through bombing targets in the middle east or imprisoning half the population. You deal with it through education/tackling poverty and creating jobs.

Jihadis tend to be better educated than their peers have better prospects and jobs, well in many places anyway.

In places like France and Britain, where conversion and radicalization is taking place in Jails, there is a larger criminal element who see Mohammed saying the only way to clean the slate in Islan is to fight.

munsterlegend · 24-05-2017 09:59AM

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

I'd guess he got all his instruction etc in Libya last week and acted alone

These devices are not that easy to make which had to be done in U.K. Maybe he learned the expertise but more like somebody made it for him. Again it's all speculation

Terrorist Attack in Manchester (Read MOD WARNING in OP Updated 24/05/2017))

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