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Body of Alan Hawe to be exhumed

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Comments

  • #62
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,136 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    kfallon wrote: »
    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    We all pay lip service to mental health but when the rubber meets the road, it's a different story. I should think anyone can see that the mad wasn't in his right mind when he did it. All 4 are victims of mental health. I'm just glad this issue didn't affect me but I don't see the point in slagging off any one of the victims in this tragedy.

    Who slagged off the 'victims' in this tragedy? :confused:

    I'm classing all 4 as victims to some extent or another.


  • #63
    kfallon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,775 ✭✭✭✭kfallon


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    I'm classing all 4 as victims to some extent or another.

    You've some neck to call him a victim I tell ya!


  • #64
    blue note
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭blue note


    livedadream wrote: »
    to be fair i think it was pretty clearly outlined at the time that it wasnt mental health issues that he had,  it was that he was a wife beater who was about to be outted so to prevent the fall from grace killed him family. its a bit unfair on people who have actual health health issues to lump this guy in with them.

    Where did you hear that? I remember various things being speculated at the time, but to be honest I got tired of everyone going around in circles and tuned out here. But I don't remember anything more than speculation in relation to prior domestic violence.


  • #65
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,136 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    kfallon wrote: »
    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    I'm classing all 4 as victims to some extent or another.

    You've some neck to call him a victim I tell ya!

    Like I said, it's easy to pay lip service to mental health but it's another thing to actually deal with the reality.


  • #66
    livedadream
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,455 ✭✭✭livedadream


    blue note wrote: »
    livedadream wrote: »
    to be fair i think it was pretty clearly outlined at the time that it wasnt mental health issues that he had,  it was that he was a wife beater who was about to be outted so to prevent the fall from grace killed him family. its a bit unfair on people who have actual health health issues to lump this guy in with them.

    Where did you hear that? I remember various things being speculated at the time, but to be honest I got tired of everyone going around in circles and tuned out here. But I don't remember anything more than speculation in relation to prior domestic violence.
    ive posted a few pages back on it, the mother did an interview here she discussed wanting a voice for Clodagh and domestic violence, this was a few weeks after the funeral when the preliminary results of the investigation were released to the family. something obviously showed up in that as they wouldnt have buried him with them if they'd known.


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  • #67
    Lollipops23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,420 ✭✭✭Lollipops23


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    I'm classing all 4 as victims to some extent or another.

    I don't see him as a victim. He murdered 3 innocent kids and his wife, who died trying to protect her children.

    He was a selfish coward and nothing more.


  • #68
    livedadream
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,455 ✭✭✭livedadream


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    kfallon wrote: »
    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    I'm classing all 4 as victims to some extent or another.

    You've some neck to call him a victim I tell ya!

    Like I said, it's easy to pay lip service to mental health but it's another thing to actually deal with the reality.
    who had a mental illness? and can you pass on a link to the information,  this is a topic im studying at the moment and would be interested to know where the info of his mental illness comes from.


  • #69
    Lollipops23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,420 ✭✭✭Lollipops23


    livedadream wrote: »
    ive posted a few pages back on it, the mother did an interview here she discussed wanting a voice for Clodagh and domestic violence, this was a few weeks after the funeral when the preliminary results of the investigation were released to the family. something obviously showed up in that as they wouldnt have buried him with them if they'd known.


    I thought Clodagh's sister had said the priest bullied the family into burying him with the others. And when they came to their senses weeks later, they realised how awful it was.


  • #70
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,549 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Great news.
    I've always said that he shouldn't have been buried with the victims.
    If they were my grandkids he wouldn't have been in the first place. That's for sure.
    Brilliant. I knew the family were not thinking straight at the time or were influenced by the priest. Should never have been buried with them.


  • #71
    robbiezero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    livedadream wrote: »
    ive posted a few pages back on it, the mother did an interview here she discussed wanting a voice for Clodagh and domestic violence, this was a few weeks after the funeral when the preliminary results of the investigation were released to the family. something obviously showed up in that as they wouldnt have buried him with them if they'd known.

    So where did you get the wife beater info?


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  • #72
    SnakePlissken
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭SnakePlissken


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    kfallon wrote: »
    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    We all pay lip service to mental health but when the rubber meets the road, it's a different story. I should think anyone can see that the mad wasn't in his right mind when he did it. All 4 are victims of mental health. I'm just glad this issue didn't affect me but I don't see the point in slagging off any one of the victims in this tragedy.

    Who slagged off the 'victims' in this tragedy? :confused:

    I'm classing all 4 as victims to some extent or another.
    Your sense of morality is just as wrong as your grasp of simple mathematics.


  • #73
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Like I said, it's easy to pay lip service to mental health but it's another thing to actually deal with the reality.

    Except he wasn't mentally ill.


  • #74
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    I'd be inclined to hold back the judgement on the family for burying him with his victims in the first place seeing as they'd just lost five family members suddenly and violently. The narrative that it was a tragedy out of nowhere rather than the culmination of years of abuse would be far easier to process, especially with next to no time to think it over.

    I'm sure everyone saying it was a disgrace and an insult or whatever would have been happy to say that to their faces at the time, or even now and aren't just passing lazy judgements on people in a situation they'll luckily never have to endure. Sure.


  • #75
    livedadream
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,455 ✭✭✭livedadream


    Lollipops23 wrote: »
    livedadream wrote: »
    ive posted a few pages back on it, the mother did an interview here she discussed wanting a voice for Clodagh and domestic violence, this was a few weeks after the funeral when the preliminary results of the investigation were released to the family. something obviously showed up in that as they wouldnt have buried him with them if they'd known.


    I thought Clodagh's sister had said the priest bullied the family into burying him with the others. And when they came to their senses weeks later, they realised how awful it was.
    i heard it spoken about but i never saw or heard that interview so cant comment. seems to be now that they applied in march to have him moved and relations between the in laws are non existent due to the disagreement over his burial.


  • #76
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,644 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Like I said, it's easy to pay lip service to mental health but it's another thing to actually deal with the reality.

    He committed a horrible crime.

    "No, he was mad."

    How do you know?

    "Only a madman would commit such a horrible crime."


  • #77
    livedadream
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,455 ✭✭✭livedadream


    robbiezero wrote: »
    livedadream wrote: »
    ive posted a few pages back on it, the mother did an interview here she discussed wanting a voice for Clodagh and domestic violence, this was a few weeks after the funeral when the preliminary results of the investigation were released to the family. something obviously showed up in that as they wouldnt have buried him with them if they'd known.

    So where did you get the wife beater info?
    read the interview her mother and sister gave. it details the issues she was experiencing


  • #78
    Woodhenge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 50 ✭✭Woodhenge


    livedadream wrote: »
    who had a mental illness? and can you pass on a link to the information,  this is a topic im studying at the moment and would be interested to know where the info of his mental illness comes from.

    Is there evidence of prior physical or domestic violence? I don't remember hearing about any. It seems from the previous posts that the only 'proof' of this is that the family asked for donations to a domestic violence charity? That is not surprising since this was a disgusting and pre-planned incident of domestic violence. Where is the info about old injuries coming from?

    This is welcome news all the same. Imagine having to see that name every time you wanted to go and grieve or just be with the children or Clodagh. Just the thought that he was lying there as well would be discomforting I would imagine.


  • #79
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,136 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    January wrote: »
    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Like I said, it's easy to pay lip service to mental health but it's another thing to actually deal with the reality.

    Except he wasn't mentally ill.
    How could we possibly know that? The evidence is the murder suicide. I don't like the guy and I wouldn't want to go for a pint with him were he alive. Familial murder dioxide is a fairly stone cold case of a mental breakdown.


  • #80
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,136 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Like I said, it's easy to pay lip service to mental health but it's another thing to actually deal with the reality.

    He committed a horrible crime.

    "No, he was mad."

    How do you know?

    "Only a madman would commit such a horrible crime."

    Ah I see your mistake I never said he didn't. I think he committed a horrible crime. I also think it's fairly clear this was a mental health issue.


  • #81
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    How could we possibly know that? The evidence is the murder suicide. I don't like the guy and I wouldn't want to go for a pint with him were he alive. Familial murder dioxide is a fairly stone cold case of a mental breakdown.

    Because he left notes. His mother in law and sister in law have come forward and said he abused their daughter/sister. His final act of abuse was to murder them all rather than have it come out that he wasn't the squeaky clean pillar of the community he was thought to be.


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  • #82
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,136 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Like I said, it's easy to pay lip service to mental health but it's another thing to actually deal with the reality.
    He committed a horrible crime."No, he was mad."How do you know?"Only a madman would commit such a horrible crime."
    Ah I see your mistake I never said he didn't. I think he committed a horrible crime. I also think it's fairly clear this was a mental health issue.
    livedadream wrote: »
    kfallon wrote: »
    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    We all pay lip service to mental health but when the rubber meets the road, it's a different story. I should think anyone can see that the mad wasn't in his right mind when he did it.  All 4 are victims of mental health. I'm just glad this issue didn't affect me but I don't see the point in slagging off any one of the victims in this tragedy.

    Who slagged off the 'victims' in this tragedy? :confused:
    i think the poster believes that Alan was a victim of mental illness so therefore non compos mentis when the act occurred, therefore removing his guilt.

    the timeline and facts of the case would disgree but each to their own.


    I never said anything about removing guilt. He did it. Everyone knows that.

    The opposite logic seems to be at play. People with mental health issues are to be pitied. I can't pity this man. Therefore he didn't have a mental health problem


  • #83
    groovyg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭groovyg


    Interview from Clodagh Hawes mom and sister back in December which say Clodagh was a victim of domestic abuse hence why they were raising money for Women's Aid

    http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/clodagh-boys-never-stood-chance-9367017

    http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/what-alan-evil-theres-no-8967033

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/family-to-set-up-refuge-in-memory-of-murdered-clodagh-and-sons-35493842.html

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/warm-loving-bright-and-capable-mother-and-sister-of-tragic-clodagh-hawe-move-to-help-women-living-in-fear-35265105.html

    Relations between the two families have deteriorated


  • #84
    robbiezero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    groovyg wrote: »
    Interview from Clodagh Hawes mom and sister back in December which say Clodagh was a victim of domestic abuse hence why they were raising money for Women's Aid

    http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/clodagh-boys-never-stood-chance-9367017

    http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/what-alan-evil-theres-no-8967033

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/family-to-set-up-refuge-in-memory-of-murdered-clodagh-and-sons-35493842.html

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/warm-loving-bright-and-capable-mother-and-sister-of-tragic-clodagh-hawe-move-to-help-women-living-in-fear-35265105.html

    Relations between the two families have deteriorated

    Where does it say that he was a wife-beater?


  • #85
    erica74
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭erica74


    s4uv3 wrote: »
    Thousands upon thousands of people have mental health issues and manage to not murder their entire immediate family.

    And plenty of people with mental health issues do commit murder and serious acts of violence.
    I'm not saying Hawe did suffer from mental health issues, the anecdotal evidence seems to suggest otherwise, however, a person can suffer from mental health issues and have voices in their head telling them to murder their loved ones and they act on those commands. For example, severe cases of post natal depression can leave a woman believing the best thing to do is murder her baby. Many people, who do not understand mental health issues properly, would label a woman, who murdered her baby while suffering from severe PND, as a disgusting monster.


  • #86
    groovyg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭groovyg


    robbiezero wrote: »
    Where does it say that he was a wife-beater?

    Where did I call him a wife beater? I just posted links as people were saying he was mentally ill but her family are saying the opposite.


  • #87
    robbiezero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    groovyg wrote: »
    Where did I call him a wife beater? I just posted links as people were saying he was mentally ill but her family are saying the opposite.

    Sorry, not saying you did. Other posters have said that.


  • #88
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Ah I see your mistake I never said he didn't. I think he committed a horrible crime. I also think it's fairly clear this was a mental health issue.


    I never said anything about removing guilt. He did it. Everyone knows that.

    The opposite logic seems to be at play. People with mental health issues are to be pitied. I can't pity this man. Therefore he didn't have a mental health problem

    No, horrible abusive controlling ****heads sometimes annihilate their families; as do people with serious mental health problems. It's pretty clear in this case that he was in the former category.

    Some people with mental health problems are compelled to steal, physically attack gardai, roar abuse at strangers on the street. It doesn't mean that everyone who does those things gets a pass.


  • #89
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,136 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    groovyg wrote: »
    robbiezero wrote: »
    Where does it say that he was a wife-beater?

    Where did I call him a wife beater? I just posted links as people were saying he was mentally ill but her family are saying the opposite.

    Mental illness and domestic violence aren't mutually exclusive. Familial Murder suicide is highly correlated with both.


  • #90
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,136 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Paisleigh Weak Peace wrote: »
    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Ah I see your mistake I never said he didn't. I think he committed a horrible crime. I also think it's fairly clear this was a mental health issue.


    I never said anything about removing guilt. He did it. Everyone knows that.

    The opposite logic seems to be at play. People with mental health issues are to be pitied. I can't pity this man. Therefore he didn't have a mental health problem

    No, horrible abusive controlling ****heads sometimes annihilate their families; as do people with serious mental health problems. It's pretty clear in this case that he was in the former category.

    Some people with mental health problems are compelled to steal, physically attack gardai, roar abuse at strangers on the street. It doesn't mean that everyone who does those things gets a pass.

    I never said anything about giving anyone a pass. Where is that notion even coming from?


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  • #91
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    I never said anything about giving anyone a pass. Where is that notion even coming from?

    From the things that you typed in your posts.


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