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Opt-Out Organ Donation

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    #152
    howiya
    Registered Users Posts: 3,244 ✭✭✭howiya


    biko wrote: »
    Chuffed that only two people have spelled donor "doner" so far :D

    I'm a donor myself but would not be in favour of the French option.
    My organs are actually mine even when I am dead.
    I personally have signed away the rights to them (or my family can) but I would hate for the government/HSE feel they can just barge in and take what they want from me without my expressed consent.

    Under the current system here your family could override your expressed consent.

    The French option still involves your consent


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    #153
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    I trust my family. I don't trust the HSE.


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    #154
    howiya
    Registered Users Posts: 3,244 ✭✭✭howiya


    biko wrote: »
    I trust my family. I don't trust the HSE.

    Presumably the HSE would be conducting the transplant?


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    #155
    222233
    Registered Users Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭222233


    jackofalltrades wrote: »
    Yes but by asking them a YES/NO question you take people not being "bothered" out of the equation.
    They have to pick an answer unlike the current system.
    Even ask them face-to-face when applying for a Drivers Licence.

    Is it not just more logical to assume that everyone will willingly take on the role of a donor but some people may choose opt-out?

    I wonder if there are any statistics available regarding people's opinions on organ donation. I tend to assume everyone would want to be a donor (which I know is untrue), but are there more people who want to be donors or more people who don't?


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    #156
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    osarusan wrote: »
    Why the assumption that opting out would be costly or troublesome?
    In France you have to send a letter by registered post at the moment.
    Upon reaching 18, every person could get a donor card along with a letter which explains that they are now on the list of donors, and here is why being a donor is so helpful, but if they want to opt out, the can call this number/visit this website and have the ID code on the back of the card.
    Why just put people on a list without asking them?
    There's no need for it, when there are plenty of opportunities to ask them to opt-in.


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    #157
    bnt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,962 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    Looks like opt-out organ donation is back on the table, at least:
    Health Minister Simon Harris has proposed a new bill to establish an "opt-out" organ donation system in Ireland.

    The Human Tissue Bill will put in place a system of “presumed consent” for organ donation to replace the current system that requires people to opt in if they wish to make their organs available for transplantation following their death.

    From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, ‘Look at that, you son of a bitch’.

    — Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 Astronaut



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    #158
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,017 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Great news. As long as it's simple to opt out then everyone benefits. Those who care enough to simply opt out get what they want, those who don't care won't mind either way.


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    #159
    Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 14,546 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    Vic_08 wrote: »
    It's not fine, people die every day waiting for transplants while viable organs are left to rot in a pine box.

    Those boxes haven't been pine in a hell of a long time...


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    #160
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Great news. As long as it's simple to opt out then everyone benefits. Those who care enough to simply opt out get what they want, those who don't care won't mind either way.

    It's a farce. Hopefully someone with a brain in the Dail will stop this.


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    #161
    Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 14,546 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    biko wrote: »
    Chuffed that only two people have spelled donor "doner" so far :D

    I'm a donor myself but would not be in favour of the French option.
    My organs are actually mine even when I am dead.
    I personally have signed away the rights to them (or my family can) but I would hate for the government/HSE feel they can just barge in and take what they want from me without my expressed consent.

    It would only be a matter of time before the HSE found a way to harvest everyones organs and sell them off, just because they could. Shower of Cu*ts, need the extra bonuses...


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    #162
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,855 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    It's a farce. Hopefully someone with a brain in the Dail will stop this.
    That's unlikely, unless you'd like to donate yours.


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    #163
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    I think it's a great idea personally - the shortage of available organs is nothing short of shocking.

    My next of kin know my wishes and respect them but at the end of the day they are my wishes either way and I don't believe next of kin should have a say expect obviously in the case of a child.


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    #164
    maudgonner
    Registered Users Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭maudgonner


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    I think it's a great idea personally - the shortage of available organs is nothing short of shocking.

    My next of kin know my wishes and respect them but at the end of the day they are my wishes either way and I don't believe next of kin should have a say expect obviously in the case of a child.

    They still will. Next of kin will be able to opt out under the system that has been discussed.

    I think that's ok tbh. I'll be dead, it's my family that have to live with the consequences. So while I hope they would agree with my decision to have all my organs donated (I've discussed it with them and made it clear that it's something I feel strongly about), if that's not something they could handle then that's fine.


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    #165
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    I read somewhere that it's costing the state up to €500,000 a year to keep a person on dialysis while waiting for a donor. I'd be willing to sign up as an organ donor, as I'm sure many others would, for a fee of say €50k. Once there are organs ready to go, the length of dialysis is cut, so the savings would be made there to pay me. Doesn't seem like rocket science.


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    #166
    maudgonner
    Registered Users Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭maudgonner


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    I read somewhere that it's costing the state up to €500,000 a year to keep a person on dialysis while waiting for a donor. I'd be willing to sign up as an organ donor, as I'm sure many others would, for a fee of say €50k. Once there are organs ready to go, the length of dialysis is cut, so the savings would be made there to pay me. Doesn't seem like rocket science.

    I can see why you're not volunteering to be a heart donor anyway.


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    #167
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,160 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    I read somewhere that it's costing the state up to €500,000 a year to keep a person on dialysis while waiting for a donor. I'd be willing to sign up as an organ donor, as I'm sure many others would, for a fee of say €50k. Once there are organs ready to go, the length of dialysis is cut, so the savings would be made there to pay me. Doesn't seem like rocket science.
    1. Nobody is going to pay you €50k now for the promise of organs when you die. Depending on when when and how you die, your organs may or may not be suitable for transplant. Nobody will give you any money until you actually deliver an organ.

    2. The good news is that you don't have to die to donate a kidney and so get someone off dialysis. You've got two kidneys, and you can get by pretty well with just the one. So, if offered €50k for a kidney now, would you accept?


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    #168
    BBDBB
    Registered Users Posts: 26,899 ✭✭✭✭BBDBB


    Im working hard to make sure my liver isn't usable to be fair


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    #169
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    I read somewhere that it's costing the state up to €500,000 a year to keep a person on dialysis while waiting for a donor. I'd be willing to sign up as an organ donor, as I'm sure many others would, for a fee of say €50k. Once there are organs ready to go, the length of dialysis is cut, so the savings would be made there to pay me. Doesn't seem like rocket science.

    So you want a fee before you'll consider saving some-one's life? How heartless and selfish are you?


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    #170
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    They're no good to me if I'm dead so work away and take whatever they want as far as I'm concerned


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    #171
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    I wont donate my organs because like blood transfusions, the government will profit of my gift. Private patients pay for their blood and will bo doubt pay for their organs (hse will use creative accounting).


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    #172
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,160 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    I wont donate my organs because like blood transfusions, the government will profit of my gift. Private patients pay for their blood and will bo doubt pay for their organs (hse will use creative accounting).
    You're in a no-win situation here, judeboy. The state will also profit when the patient dies for want of the transplant organ that you could have provided but chose not to. They can stop treating him, and of course they'll avoid the cost of the transplant operation.


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    #173
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    You're in a no-win situation here, judeboy. The state will also profit when the patient dies for want of the transplant organ that you could have provided but chose not to. They can stop treating him, and of course they'll avoid the cost of the transplant operation.

    But they wont be profiting from my donation


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    #174
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,217 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    the milk of human kindness is really flowing through this thread.


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    #175
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,160 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Either way, they'll be profiting from your decision. Your choice is whether to allow them to profit from your decision to save a life, or to allow them to profit from your decision to let someone die.

    In other words, maybe the most important consideration here isn't the financial implications for the exchequer. Worth thinking about, anyway.


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    #176
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    But they wont be profiting from my donation

    http://www.offalyexpress.ie/news/news/243666/offaly-boy-forced-to-wait-for-transplant-as-donor-liver-found-to-be-damaged.html

    There's cases like this life and death situations, real people, small kids lives riding on people's donations. It's your body and your organs but the sole reason of not donating to get one over on the government is really petty when there seems people actually dying. Your organs will be left to decay in a wooden box in the ground, when they could give a child the chance to live a normal life.


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    #177
    Parchment
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭Parchment


    I cant imagine not wanting to donate your organs. Its such a wonderful act that can essentially give someone else life.


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    #178
    Cee-Jay-Cee
    Registered Users Posts: 12,235 ✭✭✭✭Cee-Jay-Cee


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    I wont donate my organs because like blood transfusions, the government will profit of my gift. Private patients pay for their blood and will bo doubt pay for their organs (hse will use creative accounting).

    I'm assuming you equally would not be willing to receive an organ in the event of a medical emergency. You are such a selfish selfless person.


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    #179
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    1. Nobody is going to pay you €50k now for the promise of organs when you die. Depending on when when and how you die, your organs may or may not be suitable for transplant. Nobody will give you any money until you actually deliver an organ.

    2. The good news is that you don't have to die to donate a kidney and so get someone off dialysis. You've got two kidneys, and you can get by pretty well with just the one. So, if offered €50k for a kidney now, would you accept?

    I would.


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    #180
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    So you want a fee before you'll consider saving some-one's life? How heartless and selfish are you?

    No, I am willing to save the govt money. €50k to save €450,000 seems a good deal.


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    #181
    Glenster
    Registered Users Posts: 2,626 ✭✭✭Glenster


    I don't know why you'd need permission.

    1st of all you don't need to give permission because you're dead. You don't exist anymore.

    And by giving family the veto are you not saying that they own your corpse? Are people allowed to own corpses?


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