Opt-Out Organ Donation

judeboy101

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

I'm assuming you equally would not be willing to receive an organ in the event of a medical emergency. You are such a selfish selfless person.

No problem accepting as I have private health insurance and will be charged handsomely by the HSE for the privilege

AudreyHepburn

judeboy101 wrote: »

But they wont be profiting from my donation

What a lovely person you are. I hope you, nor anyone you love, ever end up needing a donation.

AudreyHepburn

judeboy101 wrote: »

No problem accepting as I have private health insurance and will be charged handsomely by the HSE for the privilege

Double standards of the highest order there. On top of your selfishness.

AudreyHepburn

weldoninhio wrote: »

No, I am willing to save the govt money. €50k to save €450,000 seems a good deal.

It's selfishness and pettiness of the highest order, nothing more.

antodeco

They can have what they want, bar my eyes. No point wasting lungs, heart, kidneys, etc. In fact, in a way, you get to live on!

maudgonner

Glenster wrote: »

I don't know why you'd need permission.

1st of all you don't need to give permission because you're dead. You don't exist anymore.

And by giving family the veto are you not saying that they own your corpse? Are people allowed to own corpses?

Next of kin have a right to dictate what medical treatment you receive in the event that you are no longer capable of making your own decision. This isn't all that different.

I don't think someone can 'own' a corpse, but they do have the right to control what happens to it. There have been plenty of cases with arguments over where someone is buried or who gets the ashes after cremation.


Whether the body is a corpse at the time of donation is something that could be arguable anyway. At what point does a body become a corpse? For organ donation (non-live donation), while the donor has to be brain-dead their heart will be kept beating until it is harvested.

ohnonotgmail

Glenster wrote: »

I don't know why you'd need permission.

1st of all you don't need to give permission because you're dead. You don't exist anymore.

And by giving family the veto are you not saying that they own your corpse? Are people allowed to own corpses?

by saying that they dont need permission are you saying that the state owns your corpse after you die?

Armchair Andy

AudreyHepburn wrote:

What a lovely person you are. I hope you, nor anyone you love, ever end up needing a donation.

AudreyHepburn wrote:

Double standards of the highest order there. On top of your selfishness.

AudreyHepburn wrote:

It's selfishness and pettiness of the highest order, nothing more.

Why resort to insulting those who have a different opinion than yours?

Mine might need a good power washing before being passed on but whatever bits they can use have at em.

Only thing I ask is if they do find lungs that have been severely tarred from years of smoking, please don't do a dead foetus job on them and throw em in the bin. Lob em back into the coffin please, afford my children some respect should that kind of procedure ever come to light.

El_Duderino 09

weldoninhio wrote: »

It's a farce. Hopefully someone with a brain in the Dail will stop this.

I disagree but you didn't make an argument so it's hard to say any more.

I see 2 main groups involved. People who have strong feelings about what should happen to their organs after death and people who need organ transplants.

As long as the opt out is simple then neither group is significantly inconvenienced but one group stands to benefit significantly. I'd say the brains have already spoken on this issue.

Glenster

maudgonner wrote: »

Whether the body is a corpse at the time of donation is something that could be arguable anyway. At what point does a body become a corpse? For organ donation (non-live donation), while the donor has to be brain-dead their heart will be kept beating until it is harvested.

Can you donate your vital organs if you're still alive though? Surely you'd have to be medically dead before they could harvest your organs.

maudgonner

Glenster wrote: »

Can you donate your vital organs if you're still alive though? Surely you'd have to be medically dead before they could harvest your organs.

You can donate e.g. a kidney or a lobe of your liver when you're alive, known as a live organ donation.

As I said, for a non-live donation you need to be declared brain-dead, but your heart is kept beating (through artificial life support) to keep the organs healthy during the harvesting process, until the heart itself is harvested. That's my understanding of the process anyway, and my experience of it with an extended relative.

Glenster

maudgonner wrote: »

You can donate e.g. a kidney or a lobe of your liver when you're alive, known as a live organ donation.

As I said, for a non-live donation you need to be declared brain-dead, but your heart is kept beating (through artificial life support) to keep the organs healthy during the harvesting process, until the heart itself is harvested. That's my understanding of the process anyway, and my experience of it with an extended relative.

Its fairly cut and dry whether you're dead then isn't it.

osarusan

1. Sell kidney for €50,000.
2. Travel to poor country and buy new kidney for say €5,000.
3. Sell kidney in Ireland for €50,000 (sell the new kidney, always keep your own original kidney, that's the pro-tip here).
4. Repeat and repeat.
5. PROFIT!!!

I made one of those PROFIT!!! things and didn't even need a line of ?????

maudgonner

Glenster wrote: »

Its fairly cut and dry whether you're dead then isn't it.

Your question was whether you're dead, a corpse or not.

I don't know what the legal definition of a corpse is (or even whether there is one) , but in most jurisdictions there are two categories of legal death: brain-death and cardiopulmonary-death.

So not exactly cut and dried in the way you described. For organ donation brain-death is required. But whether you're a corpse at that point, I don't know. For example, I don't think death is declared until the heart is stopped. You'd need a lawyer to answer that one, thankfully I'm not a lawyer :pac:

Glenster

maudgonner wrote: »

Your question was whether you're dead, a corpse or not.

I don't know what the legal definition of a corpse is (or even whether there is one) , but in most jurisdictions there are two categories of legal death: brain-death and cardiopulmonary-death.

So not exactly cut and dried in the way you described. For organ donation brain-death is required. But whether you're a corpse at that point, I don't know. For example, I don't think death is declared until the heart is stopped. You'd need a lawyer to answer that one, thankfully I'm not a lawyer :pac:

Brain death is death. Universally and unchallengeably.

ohnonotgmail

Glenster wrote: »

Brain death is death. Universally and unchallengeably.

Death can be either brain death or pulmonary death. If somebodies heart stops beating and doctors cannot resuscitate then they are dead even though their brain may continue to function until it is starved of oxygen.

maudgonner

Glenster wrote: »

Brain death is death. Universally and unchallengeably.

No it isn't? You can't bury someone who's still on life support.

Richard Hillman

I have a donor card and think this is a good idea.

My one problem is that with most people having their organs removed after death, there will be a surplus on organs. Some charlatan government will probably see this as a money making exercise to flog off the organs abroad and anybody that disagrees with it will have Helen Lovejoy calling us racists.

maudgonner

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I have a donor card and think this is a good idea.

My one problem is that with most people having their organs removed after death, there will be a surplus on organs. Some charlatan government will probably see this as a money making exercise to flog off the organs abroad and anybody that disagrees with it will have Helen Lovejoy calling us racists.

As long as it isn't depriving an Irish person of organs I have absolutely no problem with my organs being donated to someone overseas.

Glenster

maudgonner wrote: »

No it isn't? You can't bury someone who's still on life support.

That's only because there's no mains access down there.

OldNotWIse

Vic_08 wrote: »

I'd go further and disqualify people that opt out from receiving donated organs.

Good job they don't apply this logic to IBTS!

Cabaal

Vic_08 wrote: »

I'd go further and disqualify people that opt out from receiving donated organs.

Unless they have a medical reason for opting out,
Ie: A blood disease that could transfer to a donor

maudgonner

Cabaal wrote: »

Unless they have a medical reason for opting out,
Ie: A blood disease that could transfer to a donor

That would disqualify them from donating anyway, different from opting out.

Calhoun

Big thing with getting this across the line is if he lasts in government until next year.

I see the group think is strong on this topic. We aren't allowed thing different from allowing your organs be harvested.

Not like this government/country hasn't abused privilege like this in the past.

Calhoun

Calhoun wrote: »

Big thing with getting this across the line is if he lasts in government until next year.

I see the group think is strong on this topic. We aren't allowed thing different from allowing your organs be harvested.

Not like this government/country hasn't abused privilege like this in the past.

You'll be dead, seriously who gives a ****?

maudgonner

Calhoun wrote: »

Big thing with getting this across the line is if he lasts in government until next year.

I see the group think is strong on this topic. We aren't allowed thing different from allowing your organs be harvested.

Not like this government/country hasn't abused privilege like this in the past.

Of course you are ffs. That's why it's called an opt-out system. You can opt out!

weldoninhio

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I disagree but you didn't make an argument so it's hard to say any more.

I see 2 main groups involved. People who have strong feelings about what should happen to their organs after death and people who need organ transplants.

As long as the opt out is simple then neither group is significantly inconvenienced but one group stands to benefit significantly. I'd say the brains have already spoken on this issue.

My organs are mine. I'm not incubating them for someone else. What if they come out next and say, housing crisis, from now on if you don't opt out, we'll take your house and give it to a homeless person if you die?? Sure what do you need a house for when your dead?

animaal

For the record, I think organ donation is a good thing, but if it's done without express permission, it's no longer "donation". It's taking. Lack of refusal is not consent!

bnt

weldoninhio wrote: »

My organs are mine. I'm not incubating them for someone else. What if they come out next and say, housing crisis, from now on if you don't opt out, we'll take your house and give it to a homeless person if you die?? Sure what do you need a house for when your dead?

If the alternative is for the house to stand empty, why not? If you're suggesting that your house is taken away from your family in contravention of your express wishes (in your will), now you're just being hyperbolic.

No-one is suggesting that your expressed wishes will ever be violated - not w.r.t. your house, nor w.r.t. your organs. If you die with no expressed will and no heirs, then your house could end up housing the homeless. If you die without expressing your wishes regarding your organs, your family has no practical use for them - unlike a house - so the comparison doesn't stand up.

El_Duderino 09

Calhoun wrote: »

I see the group think is strong on this topic. We aren't allowed thing different from allowing your organs be harvested.

That's a bit precious. You can think whatever you like. And if you don't want to donate you can opt out.