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READ MOD WARNING POST #1 BEFORE POSTING- Joshua Vs Klitschko

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    #932
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,683 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Joshua Points
    qwabercd wrote: »
    Ok, I take your point. My opinion was complete BS, you were right as always.

    On the road to recovery. Fair play to you.


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    #933
    ebbsy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,746 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    Morrison J wrote: »
    Ranking relevant heavyweights.

    1. Fury
    2. Joshua
    3. Klitschko
    4. Ortiz
    5. Parker
    6. Povetkin
    7. Wilder
    8. Pulev

    I would have Joshua at the top, until he is defeated by Fury. The real worry for me is that a half fit and unprepared Fury rushes into it.

    If he does I will be down the bookies ploughing in on the first few rounds.


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    #934
    Too Tough To Die
    Registered Users Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭Too Tough To Die


    Klitschko Points
    snowflaker wrote: »
    Months before... to help with conditioning perhaps? Why else would he be on them? I love the way some are willing to turn a blind eye to all Fury's transgressions

    Not turning a blind eye, simply stating the fact that it was before the Klitschko fight, so won't affect the outcome. The result of that fight will not be overturned. Also, at least to my mind it makes it very likely he wasn't on anything against Wlad, making it an extra impressive win.


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    #935
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,852 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    Klitschko Points
    walshb wrote: »
    He didn't roll with the shot that Cunningham dropped him with. Picking out isolated incidents here and there means F all. Both Fury and AJ have their strengths and weaknesses. Skill is very difficult to define and batten down. Many traits and examples to look at, and different people lending more weight to one discipline over another.

    In a nutshell. Punching and delivery-mechanics of punching AJ is more polished and skilled. Movement and feet and anticipation skills Fury is more skilled. That's called educated assessing.
    walshb wrote: »
    Oh, and I almost forgot. He didn't roll with the shot that he nearly knocked himself out with...some skill in that one.

    Picking out isolated incidents means **** all, yet you picked out two isolated incidents...

    It was just an example of how Fury uses head movement far more effectively than Joshua. I don't see the problem to be honest. It's fairly clear.


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    #936
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,683 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Joshua Points
    Yes, picked out to disprove your points, and to show how they mean F all..

    I shouldn't have had to explain this.


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    #937
    selectamatic
    Registered Users Posts: 3,895 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    Joshua Points
    Morrison J wrote: »
    I'm not comparing Joshua and Fury's power though? I don't think anyone doubts Joshua has more of it.

    No but you still added the little nugget about Joshua and whyte in at the end of your initial post hence my rebuttal. Chisora's corner pulled him as he was eating jabs and was running outta steam with no hope of landing anything significant if fury had the power you are alluding to he'd have stopped him properly in the 8th or 9th.

    Strawmanning about vitali is pointless too as it was you not I who entered into this flawed logic of X "stopped" Y who narrowly lost to A who challenged C, therefore X beats C.

    Look your a knowledgeable guy when it comes to boxing and you contribute a hell of a lot more than I do to this forum but I cant help but feel your posts regarding fury and Aj are clouded by emotion.


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    #938
    vetinari
    Registered Users Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭vetinari


    Regards the first 4 rounds, if you look at the punch stats
    http://www.boxingscene.com/anthony-joshua-vs-wladimir-klitschko-compubox-punch-stats--116148
    I don't see how you can give Wlad any more than one of those rounds and even that is generous.
    Definitely a case of people watching different fights, I personally have no idea how people scored some of those rounds for Wlad.


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    #939
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,852 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    Klitschko Points
    walshb wrote: »
    Yes, picked out to disprove your points, and to show how they mean F all..

    I shouldn't have had to explain this.

    Hardly means F all though. It's an example of how Fury has superior head movement, which he does. You're actively looking for a bone to pick.


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    #940
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,683 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Joshua Points
    Morrison J wrote: »
    Hardly means F all though. It's an example of how Fury has superior head movement, which he does. You're actively looking for a bone to pick.

    No. I am simply saying that picking out isolated incidents means F all.

    I don't disagree that Fury has better head-body movement.

    I do think that you are overrating Fury's chances and underrating AJs..

    A Fury win would be no surprise. He is a big and talented man.

    I happen to think the combination of his chin and IMO, quite ordinary power sees him lose.


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    #941
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,852 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    Klitschko Points
    selectamatic wrote: »
    No but you still added the little nugget about Joshua and whyte in at the end of your initial post hence my rebuttal. Chisora's corner pulled him as he was eating jabs and was running outta steam with no hope of landing anything significant if fury had the power you are alluding to he'd have stopped him properly in the 8th or 9th.

    Strawmanning about vitali is pointless too as it was you not I who entered into this flawed logic of X "stopped" Y who narrowly lost to A who challenged C, therefore X beats C.

    Look your a knowledgeable guy when it comes to boxing and you contribute a hell of a lot more than I do to this forum but I cant help but feel your posts regarding fury and Aj are clouded by emotion.

    I just don't understand you bringing Joshua's power into the argument. I've never doubted Joshua's power.

    Chisora's face was in tatters to be fair. He was clearly hurt and wanted no more.

    I'm not alluding to Fury being some kind of monster puncher. I'm just saying Fury's power is nowhere near as bad as most make out. I've seen him called featherfisted on here so many times. He has 18 stoppages. If he caught Wlad flush in Germany he could've rocked him, he can rock Joshua. I've no doubt about both those facts.


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    #942
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,852 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    Klitschko Points
    walshb wrote: »
    No. I am simply saying that picking out isolated incidents means F all.

    I don't disagree that Fury has better head-body movement.

    I do think that you are overrating Fury's chances and underrating AJs..

    A Fury win would be no surprise. He is a big and talented man.

    I happen to think the combination of his chin and IMO, quite ordinary power sees him lose.

    It's an example. We all know there are plenty more incidents out there too which proves the point has substance.

    Joshua is always 10 seconds away from beating anyone. I don't have any doubts about that fact.

    What are you basing Fury's weak chin on anyway? An isolated incident against Cunningham? I've seen little evidence of it. Always shown really good recuperative powers for me.


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    #943
    Joeseph Balls
    Registered Users Posts: 3,710 ✭✭✭Joeseph Balls


    Joshua Points
    Morrison J wrote: »
    I just don't understand you bringing Joshua's power into the argument. I've never doubted Joshua's power.

    Chisora's face was in tatters to be fair. He was clearly hurt and wanted no more.

    I'm not alluding to Fury being some kind of monster puncher. I'm just saying Fury's power is nowhere near as bad as most make out. I've seen him called featherfisted on here so many times. He has 18 stoppages. If he caught Wlad flush in Germany he could've rocked him, he can rock Joshua. I've no doubt about both those facts.

    I agree.
    I don't think it's fair to call any proper heavyweight featherfisted. Imo Fury does lack that 1 punch power that the likes of AJ and wilder have. I think if AJ and Fury fought, it wouldn't be a surprise if Fury won on points, but I think 12 rounds is a long time to not get tagged by AJ.


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    #944
    ebbsy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,746 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    vetinari wrote: »
    Regards the first 4 rounds, if you look at the punch stats
    http://www.boxingscene.com/anthony-joshua-vs-wladimir-klitschko-compubox-punch-stats--116148
    I don't see how you can give Wlad any more than one of those rounds and even that is generous.
    Definitely a case of people watching different fights, I personally have no idea how people scored some of those rounds for Wlad.

    Have to agree. Vlad didn't more than one of those 4 rounds and didn't win 7 or 8 either.


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    #945
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,683 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Joshua Points
    Only watched the fight once, and for me several rds were very difficult to score, hence an argument could me made for a wide disparity in the scoring.


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    #946
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,852 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    Klitschko Points
    It's quite amazing comparing the punch stats that Wlad threw only 25 more punches than in the Fury fight. Felt like so many more than that.


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    #947
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,683 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Joshua Points
    I made the point that there were plenty of lulls in the fight. Full of action when they went for it, but there was more sussing each other out.


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    #948
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,036 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    Agreed,plenty of nip and tuck rounds and a couple of really explosive moments

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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    #949
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Joshua KO
    I have been a big fan of Fury for years ever since he talked up his Irish Connections when he was fighting that taxi driver from belfast :P But asking people here who are knowledgable in boxing, do ye think Fury has a good chin? Has he been knocked down?


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    #950
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,852 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    Klitschko Points
    Deleted User wrote: »
    I have been a big fan of Fury for years ever since he talked up his Irish Connections when he was fighting that taxi driver from belfast :P But asking people here who are knowledgable in boxing, do ye think Fury has a good chin? Has he been knocked down?

    Most people on here seem to believe he is. I don't see any real evidence. He's been down twice in his career. Both flash knockdowns where he recovered quickly. His head has never touched the canvas.


    giphy.gif

    cunningham_knocks_down_fury.0.gif


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    #951
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,852 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    Klitschko Points
    walshb wrote: »
    Only watched the fight once, and for me several rds were very difficult to score, hence an argument could me made for a wide disparity in the scoring.

    I felt like the first two rounds were the only real difficult ones. I gave them to Wlad on ring generalship but could see an argument to give at least one to Joshua.

    I had Wlad clearly winning the 4th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 10th.
    Joshua clearly won the 3rd, 5th, 9th, 11th.

    5th being the only other contentious one whether you score it 10-9 or 10-8 to Joshua.


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    #952
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Joshua KO
    Morrison J wrote: »
    Most people on here seem to believe he is. I don't see any real evidence. He's been down twice in his career. Both flash knockdowns where he recovered quickly. His head has never touched the canvas.


    giphy.gif

    cunningham_knocks_down_fury.0.gif

    Both those punches seem to have landed akwardly on his chin also and were they not a long time ago? His defense seems to have got a lot better in his last fight.


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    #953
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,683 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Joshua Points
    Neither punch was particularly good and both dropped him. Add this to instances where he was wobbled and jelly legged. AJ will be landing with far heavier shots..Fury could surprise me and take them. It would be a big surprise.


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    #954
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,852 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    Klitschko Points
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Both those punches seem to have landed akwardly on his chin also and were they not a long time ago? His defense seems to have got a lot better in his last fight.

    Aye I think it was very much a case of him not respecting two fighters a lot smaller than him and him getting caught coming in. Both big punches that knock over practically any heavyweight imo. He's clearly not hurt by them though by how he falls to the canvas. Against big punchers he's nowhere near as reckless.

    He's very much like a Juan Manuel Marquez in that regard. Can be put on the canvas but his recuperative powers are that good that he'll just get up and carry on with no sign of being hurt.

    Another example here. Doesn't get put down but eats some huge shots from Chisora. Looks a bit hurt. Literally seconds later he has Chisora in the other corner, against the ropes, with his feet fully back. Fury is as tough as they come.

    giphy.gif


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    #955
    Burial.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,131 ✭✭✭Burial.


    Klitschko Points
    JMM is a great example, Rigondeaux is another. Seems to get knocked down more than he should given how defensively amazing he is but I've never seen him hurt either


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    #956
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,683 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Joshua Points
    Rigo has not really taken a real heavy shot. The KD to Donaire was a balance issues with being caught square on.


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    #957
    Gamebred
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,269 ✭✭✭Gamebred


    He got knocked down by the Asian guy too, was not hurt though straight back to hi feet in a second.


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    #958
    Too Tough To Die
    Registered Users Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭Too Tough To Die


    Klitschko Points
    walshb wrote: »
    Neither punch was particularly good and both dropped him. Add this to instances where he was wobbled and jelly legged. AJ will be landing with far heavier shots..Fury could surprise me and take them. It would be a big surprise.

    What fights are you talking about here? I've never seen his legs go. Give me the rounds too if you know them, please.


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    #959
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,683 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Joshua Points
    Too Tough To Die wrote: »
    What fights are you talking about here? I've never seen his legs go. Give me the rounds too if you know them, please.

    He was dropped against Neven Pajkic and he was on jelly legs as well. Rd 2...

    Like his other two drops, the shot was far from great!


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    #960
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,683 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Joshua Points
    Throw in Nicolai Firtha rd 3.....


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    #961
    Too Tough To Die
    Registered Users Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭Too Tough To Die


    Klitschko Points
    walshb wrote: »
    He was dropped against Neven Pajkic and he was on jelly legs as well. Rd 2...

    Like his other two drops, the shot was far from great!

    Yeah, the Pajkic knockdown is covered in the post you quoted. I didn't see any jelly legs there at all, a bit of clinching and spoiling but legs always stable.

    Will check out the Firtha one in a bit.


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