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nacho libre

Klitschko Points

walshb wrote: »

And in supposedly making Wlad look like an amateur he too looked like one and stunk the joint out.

He's 6 feet 9. That was a factor in how his sham of a fight played out. Height and reach and movement.

Height and reach are not much good, if you don't have the skills to utilise it effectively. Fury looked anything but an amateur in a masterful defensive performance, which caused Wlad to go into his shell for fear of being countered. Fury is a great boxer. He is the only creditable threat to Joshua right now.

ps for those saying the uppercut landing in the 11th proved Wlad is past it, if you take heavy shots they tend to catch up with you, it happened to a young Wlad also against Sanders and Purity, so his age had little or nothing to do with it. I think if these two fought ten years ago Joshua might well have won.

I hope Wlad retires, but if he is obsessed he might not be able to accept retiring on a loss. If that's the case he should go after Parker or Wilder

Gamebred

Lukker- wrote: »

You constantly overlook he made Vlad look like an amateur. Vlad made AJ look like an amateur last night at times. He's got considerably faster hands than AJ and ring generalmaship.

AJs a limited boxer bit he definitely improves considerably each fight.

What has he improved since turning pro? its same basic shots walking people down throwing heat and getting them out of there,it works on bums but last night we seen it wasnt so easy.

Morrison J

Klitschko Points

blade1 wrote: »

Vlad implemented his plan from the start but I felt AJ more than held his own.
They were fighting Vlad's fight but AJ was dealing with it.
That was my take on it anyway.

I think if Vlad fought Wilder he would beat him but I think he should pack it in now.
Not that he is past it but he has nothing to prove and will never reach the heights of his past.
He can be proud of the effort he gave last night.

Aye no doubting it was nip and tuck early. Wlad just shaded it for me though.

Wlad makes easy work of Wilder. Very confident of that. Literally tailor made for him. Don't think that fight is realistically going to happen though. It's a rematch or retirement for Wlad I feel.

mada82

Anyone else wish this fight happened years ago and an early thirties vitali was taking wlads place in the rematch.

I don't think vitali would knock him out but I reckon he'd take Joshua's shots and out box him.

Lukker-

Joshua KO

Gamebred wrote: »

What has he improved since turning pro? its same basic shots walking people down throwing heat and getting them out of there,it works on bums but last night we seen it wasnt so easy.

His jab is definitely better than it was. Shot selection seems to have improved, as well as his head movement. His footwoork is much the same, basic plodding forward style and it'll be what costs him if he ever fights an in shape Fury. Fury has much better jab too.

Morrison J

Klitschko Points

Ranking relevant heavyweights.

1. Fury
2. Joshua
3. Klitschko
4. Ortiz
5. Parker
6. Povetkin
7. Wilder
8. Pulev

mada82

Morrison J wrote: »

Ranking relevant heavyweights.

1. Fury
2. Joshua
3. Klitschko
4. Ortiz
5. Parker
6. Povetkin
7. Wilder
8. Pulev

I'd have joshua number 1 now. I think stopping wlad is more impressive than pot shotting your way to victory on the back foot.

It's hard to rank wilder, Parker and Ortiz. Who have they beaten of note? There's an argument for povetkin being ahead of them.

walshb

Joshua Points

Plus Fury is 18 months inactive now..

Morrison J

Klitschko Points

mada82 wrote: »

I'd have joshua number 1 now. I think stopping wlad is more impressive than pot shotting your way to victory on the back foot.

It's hard to rank wilder, Parker and Ortiz. Who have they beaten of note? There's an argument for povetkin being ahead of them.

I think that's harsh on Fury. Joshua was the one spitting his gum shield out in desperation to buy himself time last night. Fury absolutely pissed it against Wlad. If Wlad had committed he'd have been knocked out by Fury imo, but he wasn't willing.

It's very subjective to be fair. I'm mixing resume with the eye test. Wilder has the worst resume and has never impressed me watching him, he's incredibly limited in my opinion and a loss waiting to happen. Parker has the best resume but has looked average at times. Ortiz lacks a really good win but looked brilliant against Jennings. If one of them was to break into the top 2 it'd be Ortiz for me. Doubt he gets the fight to do it though. Povetkin has so many question marks hanging over him now I struggle to rate him. Himself and Wilder are interchangeable for me.

mada82

Morrison J wrote: »

I think that's harsh on Fury. Joshua was the one spitting his gum shield out in desperation to buy himself time last night. Fury absolutely pissed it against Wlad. If Wlad had committed he'd have been knocked out by Fury imo, but he wasn't willing.

It's very subjective to be fair. I'm mixing resume with the eye test. Wilder has the worst resume and has never impressed me watching him, he's incredibly limited in my opinion and a loss waiting to happen. Parker has the best resume but has looked average at times. Ortiz lacks a really good win but looked brilliant against Jennings. If one of them was to break into the top 2 it'd be Ortiz for me. Doubt he gets the fight to do it though. Povetkin has so many question marks hanging over him now I struggle to rate him. Himself and Wilder are interchangeable for me.

We just need them all to fight each other now at sort it out. Could potentially be a good 2/3 years in the division if they do.

I forgot Ortiz beat jennings, that's a decent win.

Auroras_encore

Morrison J wrote: »

Ranking relevant heavyweights.

1. Fury
2. Joshua
3. Klitschko
4. Ortiz
5. Parker
6. Povetkin
7. Wilder
8. Pulev

It's such a woeful division , Joshua should dominate for years , Lennox Lewis would probably stop Joshua even at his age

Rematch Clause

Auroras_encore wrote: »

It's such a woeful division , Joshua should dominate for years , Lennox Lewis would probably stop Joshua even at his age

How is it a woeful division? There is great talent in the division. Klitschko is one of the all time great heavyweights, Joshua could become one of the greats and then you have Wilder and Furt who are both hugely talented.

Lukker-

Joshua KO

Rematch Clause wrote: »

How is it a woeful division? There is great talent in the division. Klitschko is one of the all time great heavyweights, Joshua could become one of the greats and then you have Wilder and Furt who are both hugely talented.

I think that might be the first time someone has called Wilder talented. :P

He's got power, that's it. Dunno how long he's been boxing for but doesn't seem that long. He effectively just relies on an overhand that you can him winding up 15 seconds before he throws it. Not much to be done if you get hit by one though.

nacho libre

Klitschko Points

Lukker- wrote: »

I think that might be the first time someone has called Wilder talented. :P

He's got power, that's it. Dunno how long he's been boxing for but doesn't seem that long. He effectively just relies on an overhand that you can him winding up 15 seconds before he throws it. Not much to be done if you get hit by one though.

Against a quality opponent he won't get the 15 seconds to wind it up, though. He will be knocked out as he is winding it up. If ever an undefeated streak is misleading, it surely is in his case!.

normanoffside

Joshua KO

2 of the 3 Judges had Aj up going into the 11th. As per Boxrec:

Don Trella 96-93, Steve Weisfeld 93-95, Nelson Vazquez 95-93

I'd like to see those cards. I had Wlad 3 up. Thankfully it didn't come down to the judges in the end.

StringerBell

Gamebred wrote: »

What has he improved since turning pro? its same basic shots walking people down throwing heat and getting them out of there,it works on bums but last night we seen it wasnt so easy.

His handspeed and combinations are improving.

Mostly though his improvements from last night most evident were on defence, his movement on the back foot, his ability to spot a punch coming, to take a punch etc

Wlad kept going for that left hook because it is a shot that AJ has had serious problems seeing and dealing with in the past. Last night was actual visual evidence of improvement in that regard.

StringerBell

mada82 wrote: »

Anyone else wish this fight happened years ago and an early thirties vitali was taking wlads place in the rematch.

I don't think vitali would knock him out but I reckon he'd take Joshua's shots and out box him.

Really? I think Vitali would murder him basically

StringerBell

Morrison J wrote: »

I think that's harsh on Fury. Joshua was the one spitting his gum shield out in desperation to buy himself time last night. Fury absolutely pissed it against Wlad. If Wlad had committed he'd have been knocked out by Fury imo, but he wasn't willing.

To me, its almost like they fought different men though, Wlad against Fury was nothing like the one who turned up against AJ. He was hungry, he was the best he has looked in years, it was a far cry from what we saw against Fury. Fury of course gets his credit for his part in that,but I think the defeat lit a fire in Wlad that hasn't been there for a long time and that had a lot to do with his performance last night,which is what makes Joshua's win more impressive (other then it being obviously more aesthetically pleasing)

Lukker-

Joshua KO

StringerBell wrote: »

To me, its almost like they fought different men though, Wlad against Fury was nothing like the one who turned up against AJ. He was hungry, he was the best he has looked in years, it was a far cry from what we saw against Fury. Fury of course gets his credit for his part in that,but I think the defeat lit a fire in Wlad that hasn't been there for a long time and that had a lot to do with his performance last night,which is what makes Joshua's win more impressive (other then it being obviously more aesthetically pleasing)

There's no way of knowing really, Fury's excellent game plan also might have just totally nullified Wlad's strengths. Wlad's output was obviously dreadful in the Fury fight and much improved on Saturday, but Fury's a much tougher guy to hit whereas Joshua will stand in front of you and is much more willing to trade. I'd say it's mainly the height + reach Fury has over Wlad, Wlad's a headhunter and not very adept at working the body. Much harder to land head strikes vs. a guy that has 3 inches height on you and a whatever extra reach he has in his arms. Wlad is just accustomed to be being the taller longer fighter IMO, or at least equal.

PeterTheNinth

Joshua Points

The Brits can't do anything with a bit of humility.

TOP story on the Sky News page tonight... (not the sports page, the MAIN page)

Joshua's worldwide fame 'could emulate Ali'

http://news.sky.com/story/anthony-joshua-could-emulate-muhammad-ali-and-become-sporting-icon-10858077

Morrison J

Klitschko Points

StringerBell wrote: »

To me, its almost like they fought different men though, Wlad against Fury was nothing like the one who turned up against AJ. He was hungry, he was the best he has looked in years, it was a far cry from what we saw against Fury. Fury of course gets his credit for his part in that,but I think the defeat lit a fire in Wlad that hasn't been there for a long time and that had a lot to do with his performance last night,which is what makes Joshua's win more impressive (other then it being obviously more aesthetically pleasing)

So Wlad just wasn't as arsed against Fury? I can't get on board with that to be honest. I feel like people look for any excuse to play down Fury's achievement to be honest.

Going to Wlad's backyard and making a complete embarrassment out of him. Making the best heavyweight of this generation who hasn't lost for 13 years look like he's lacing his gloves for the first time.

or

Be on the verge of defeat in the 6th. Down on the cards (if they were fair) in the 11th round and finding the punch of your career to win, on your own promotor's show, in front of 90,000 of your own fans.

It's clear to me which is more impressive. I'm not trying to take anything away from Joshua's win either. He impressed me big time last night. Fury's win is 100% superior though.

snowflaker

Joshua Points

https://twitter.com/mattcboxingnews/status/858809111957450753

Morrison J

Klitschko Points

Ortiz v Pulev in the works. Exactly the kind of fight Ortiz needs to get his name more in the conversation for the really big fights.

https://twitter.com/julianisjulius/status/858780544162832388

snowflaker

Joshua Points

The Fury fight was awful. Klit was awful without any undue influence from Fury.

And are people forgetting Fury's failed drugs test? He was stripped of the belts, so why give him any credit? I mean do Lance Armstrong's TdF victories still count in your book?

snowflaker

Joshua Points

PeterTheNinth wrote: »

The Brits can't do anything with a bit of humility.

TOP story on the Sky News page tonight... (not the sports page, the MAIN page)

Joshua's worldwide fame 'could emulate Ali'

http://news.sky.com/story/anthony-joshua-could-emulate-muhammad-ali-and-become-sporting-icon-10858077

They are dreadful. The Ali thing is being pushed hard by Sky

Lukker-

Joshua KO

snowflaker wrote: »

The Fury fight was awful. Klit was awful without any undue influence from Fury.

And are people forgetting Fury's failed drugs test? He was stripped of the belts, so why give him any credit? I mean do Lance Armstrong's TdF victories still count in your book?

You think a 41 year old Wlad can look like that naturally?

Then there is Joshua..

Vacating ≠ stripped, he get's an instant shot at getting the titles back if he wants them.

snowflaker

Joshua Points

Lukker- wrote: »

You think a 41 year old Wlad can look like that naturally?

Then there is Joshua..

Vacating ≠ stripped, he get's an instant shot at getting the titles back if he wants them.

Weren't people warned about unfounded drug allegations...

Vacated? He didn't have a boxing license so it wasn't a choice

Lukker-

Joshua KO

snowflaker wrote: »

Weren't people warned about unfounded drug allegations...

Probably, doesn't mean there's no truth to it though. Boxing is probably dirtier than cycling was, the drug testing is laughable.

walshb

Joshua Points

pac_man wrote: »

I'm still buzzing from it. Watched that right hand in slow motion that put Joshua down and still wondering how he got up from it.Wlad looked like he was about to throw that lead left hook that he loves throwing but then shifted his bodyweight and got alot of leverage on that right hand. Lovely to watch.

I kind of disagree. Good shot, but a straightforward kind of shot. It was more where it caught AJ than its brute force. Kind of high on the forehead, wasn't it? Discombobulated AJ. Scrambled his system.

Gamebred

Whatever about roids, you cannot take anything for the heart the 2 boys had last night they left it all in there, the shots they took and came back from was crazy.