Teen who sued soccer club for trauma after he was dropped loses case

kupus · 28-04-2017 09:37AM

Ah the court system gives us another doozy.

You gotta love the system that is just fleecing people and their money.

What lawyer took this on.
Who diagnosed him with ptsd.
Why did this even get to court.

Money. Thats why.
I used to laugh at frivolous law suits in usa and say only in america.

Now i can laugh at these law suits in ireland from the comfort of my local paper.

28-04-2017 09:43AM

Poor kid. Shame on his parents for putting him through this.

razorblunt · 28-04-2017 09:46AM

The Dad is on a radio station in Cork now, he's not making his case any stronger.
"that didn't come out in court, this didn't come out in court" he says, all the parents backed him and came to his door with support yet never spoke up in the club.

yabadabado · 28-04-2017 09:47AM

Taxburden carrier wrote: »

Google that psychologist

What's the story with her?
Not qualified or something ?

seamus · 28-04-2017 09:50AM

razorblunt wrote: »

The Dad is on a radio station in Cork now, he's not making his case any stronger.
"that didn't come out in court, this didn't come out in court" he says, all the parents backed him and came to his door with support yet never spoke up in the club.

Delusional. All the parents came out in support of him, except apparently when it came to voting no confidence in the manager.

The family needs to cover their heads now and stop before they do more damage. Any future employer for their son will Google him, find this case and steer well away.

pickarooney · 28-04-2017 09:51AM

seamus wrote: »

The answer to both is yes.

For all intents and purposes, the solicitor acts as extension of the client, one with expert legal knowledge. They are bound by the law to advise their client, not impartially but biased towards the best interests of the client.

A solicitor cannot force you to do or say (or indeed not do or not say) anything. All they can do is advise you on whether something is the right course of action. They cannot stop you from taking that course.

In the case of a client who wants to take a ridiculous case, the solicitor can advise the client that it's a ridiculous case, but if the client ignores that and decides to press ahead, the solicitor's only options are to stop representing that client (and the client will find someone else who will take the case), or to assist the client in pressing ahead with the case, while building the best argument they can that is in the best interests of their client.

I'm sure many many solicitors have found themselves in court presenting farcical scenarios and arguments for their clients, but they've been backed into a corner by a client who refuses to relent.

How does it look for a lawyer to have lost these kind of cases? Do people care about win ratios in Ireland?

razorblunt · 28-04-2017 09:52AM

seamus wrote: »

Delusional. All the parents came out in support of him, except apparently when it came to voting no confidence in the manager.

The family needs to cover their heads now and stop before they do more damage. Any future employer for their son will Google him, find this case and steer well away.

Future employer? This lad is going to play for Aston Villa don't ya know!

I'm getting the impression it's the Dad who feels victimised in this rather than the son and he's acting as a proxy.

CPSW · 28-04-2017 10:56AM

whoopsadoodles wrote: »

My kid didn't make a basketball team and telling her when I'd gotten the email was one absolutely horrible experience.

We were actually in a little bit of shock as she's an unbelievable player for her age but it was one hour of trials for this particular team and she badly injured her finger in that hour.

Did I sue? Did I fcuk. Did I try to convince them to give her another chance because she'd been injured? Of course not. And I certainly didn't tell her it was the fault of the people judging the trials either.

What I did do was email the coach, thank him for his time, and ask him for feedback on her performance that day to improve her chances at her next trials. I also brought her to the game she missed out on so that she could cheer her friends on.

I was very positive with her but also told her if she really wanted this, she would need to work extra hard and train extra smart. She upped her game big time and ended up with an invite to play in the states during the summer.

You teach your kids to work for what they want, not to stamp their feet and whinge about whose fault it was that they missed out. You're doing them absolutely no favours in the long run by wrapping them up and molly coddling them like that.

This is completely down to the father, and I wouldn't judge the child on it at all.

This is the way it should be done, fair play and best of luck to your kid! :-)

valoren · 28-04-2017 11:54AM

It's an important part of our development as children/teenagers.

You are encouraged to become involved in sports or clubs be they drama/dance/sport or whatever.
While you may have plans to reach the pinnacle there comes a divergence point, where you either have the right stuff so to speak to accomplish that or you realise that you are simply not good enough, so you are content to pursue it as a hobby, as an amateur.

It's the acceptance of the second part that is important in development.
Unfortunately, in this case, it seems there is a problem with the father, and the mother, in letting go.
It is indicative of narcissism that they have focused on a single match, which he happened to miss.

Such seemingly innocuous events become magnified for narcissists. It is that game that cost their son the chance of becoming a professional footballer. And not just plying his trade in Division 4 no less. It cost him his chance to sign terms with Aston Villa. We're talking PREMIERSHIP here, an elite club, for their elite Son. That's the delusions such narcissistic people live within.

I am sure if he had the talent, the right stuff, this would have attracted the attention of scouts. And not just from one club. He didn't in the end. He never came to terms with the notion of not being good enough, never developed from it. As it is, the apple seemingly didn't fall far from the tree here, and now as an adult he is content to let this go to court.

It is also indicative of narcissists, that they now simply can't let it go. They've been wounded. The father is on local radio, getting attention, refusing to accept the decision. The son tweets that what they were actually trying to do was highlight bullying. The narrative changes to suit a narcissist.

See how they are trying to deflect away from the actual underlying issue? That the fact is their son simply wasn't good enough, nor had the proper mindset to become a professional footballer, which by any stretch of the imagination is as ruthless a sports profession as there is. He is but one of hundreds of thousands of young lads who dream of playing professionally.

And there's only a few select spots.

But when you're a self-centred narcissist, you fail to understand that. All that is irrelevant. He should be playing professionally now, he would have been offered terms by Villa, had it not been for a volunteer manager at a schoolboy's football club and this case is nothing but malignant narcissism.

bruschi · 28-04-2017 12:00PM

valoren wrote: »

It's an important part of our development as children/teenagers.

You are encouraged to become involved in sports or clubs be they drama/dance/sport or whatever.
While you may have plans to reach the pinnacle there comes a divergence point, where you either have the right stuff so to speak to accomplish that or you realise that you are simply not good enough, so you are content to pursue it as a hobby, as an amateur.

It's the acceptance of the second part that is important in development.
Unfortunately, in this case, it seems there is a problem with the father, and the mother, in letting go.
It is indicative of narcissism that they have focused on a single match, which he happened to miss.

Such seemingly innocuous events become magnified for narcissists. It is that game that cost their son the chance of becoming a professional footballer. And not just plying his trade in Division 4 no less. It cost him his chance to sign terms with Aston Villa. We're talking PREMIERSHIP here, and elite club. That's the delusions such narcissistic people live within.

I am sure if he had the talent, the right stuff, this would have attracted the attention of scouts. He didn't in the end. He never came to terms with the notion of not being good enough, never developed from it. As it is, the apple seemingly didn't fall far from the tree here, and now as an adult he is content to let this go to court.

It is also indicative of narcissists, that they now simply can't let it go. They've been wounded. The father is on local radio, getting attention, refusing to accept the decision. The son tweets that what they were actually trying to do was highlight bullying. The narrative changes to suit a narcissist.

See how they are trying to deflect away from the actual underlying issue? That the fact is their son simply wasn't good enough, nor had the proper mindset to become a professional footballer, which by any stretch of the imagination is as ruthless a sports profession as there is. He is but one of hundreds of thousands of young lads who dream of playing professionally.

And there's only a few select spots.

But when you're a self-centred narcissist, you fail to understand that. All that is irrelevant. He should be playing professionally now, he would have been offered terms by Villa, had it not been for a volunteer manager at a schoolboy's football club and this case is nothing but malignant narcissism.

you do know that he is currently signed with Waterford United in the Airticity League? I know its not the EPL, but he must be someway good enough to be making it, despite his post traumatic stress condition.

skankkuvhima · 28-04-2017 12:11PM

pickarooney wrote: »

How does it look for a lawyer to have lost these kind of cases? Do people care about win ratios in Ireland?

I presume they care more about money than professional reputation. In my profession if a client asked me to carry out a project I knew was impossible (build me a perpetual motion device for example) I would refuse to entertain the idea regardless of the money (well, unless it was a billion euro or something)

valoren · 28-04-2017 12:13PM

bruschi wrote: »

you do know that he is currently signed with Waterford United in the Airticity League? I know its not the EPL, but he must be someway good enough to be making it, despite his post traumatic stress condition.

I know that. He found his level. And it's not good enough for them. He would be premier league if not for a club and a manager deciding to drop him. That's what I'm reading into it.

This case is the equivalent of me being part of a golf club as say an 18 year old.

Where I am a talented golfer with some serious potential. I have dreams of winning on the professional tour. One day I am left out of an important match for a national cup. I am recovering from a wrist injury and the team captain tells me he is resting me. It turns out one of the scouts for the GB&I Walker Cup team attended (or the head of the golf team from the Univeristy of Alabama) unbeknownst to our team captain.

In time, I become a successful amateur golfer, content to enjoy my golf, representing my club.

Yet, I say to myself, in my narcissitic, deluded head, that if I played that day, I would have been selected for the Walker Cup or gotten a golf scholarship in the US, I would have made a name for myself, I would have received sponsorship to gain my tour card, I would have learned my trade in the professional ranks, I would have then won a few tournaments, I would have been invited to the Masters, I would have won a green jacket and $2 million in prize money. But I didn't. Because the team captain dropped me.
I am traumatised by the single decision.

So I decide to spend years going through litigation against the team captain
because I would have won the Masters if it wasn't for him.

That's how ridiculous this case is.

seamus · 28-04-2017 12:14PM

valoren wrote: »

It's an important part of our development as children/teenagers.

You are encouraged to become involved in sports or clubs be they drama/dance/sport or whatever.
While you may have plans to reach the pinnacle there comes a divergence point, where you either have the right stuff so to speak to accomplish that or you realise that you are simply not good enough, so you are content to pursue it as a hobby, as an amateur.

It's the acceptance of the second part that is important in development.

Actually IMO the problem starts in driving towards the first goal. Parents plan on kids being good enough to be a professional and drive them towards that.
When it becomes clear that's not achievable, the child becomes disappointed and the parent loses interest. And the child loses interest too, even though they may actually be really, really good at it. Because their involvement in the hobby up to now has been on the basis of success at the end. When that's not achieveable, what's the point?

But there's no monetary value in it so the kind of parent who wants their child to be a millionaire places no value in the pursuit of the hobby.

Instead if you get the child involved in it to get them interested, focus on the stuff they love doing, drive them towards continuous improvement for the sake of getting better, then it won't matter if they can't progress to being a professional, because you never gave them the expectation.

Disappointment comes from a failure to meet an expectation. Don't create the expectation and you won't experience the disappointment. This is especially true when the expectation is incredibly unlikely, like winning the lotto or becoming a premier league footballer.

They don't turn pro, but they love the hobby and they're in the top 10%, so they keep at it because they never expected to turn pro anyway.

overshoot · 28-04-2017 12:26PM

bruschi wrote: »

you do know that he is currently signed with Waterford United in the Airticity League? I know its not the EPL, but he must be someway good enough to be making it, despite his post traumatic stress condition.

er just incase people think senior level... he is playing for the u19s... and after 5 games this year he has one start where he was subbed off and one bench appearance (unused)... oh and waterford are bottom of the southern section.
Still a decent player but if he isnt starting for a struggling u19s team its hard to see him ever been good enough to make premier LOI, let alone get a full time england contract.

Big Bag of Chips · 28-04-2017 12:37PM

I wonder are they just pushing it to see if the mother kicks off.

SAMTALK · 28-04-2017 12:47PM

The poor chap.. Maybe he should sue his parents for being total twats!

red ears · 28-04-2017 12:51PM

valoren wrote: »

I know that. He found his level. And it's not good enough for them. He would be premier league if not for a club and a manager deciding to drop him. That's what I'm reading into it.

This case is the equivalent of me being part of a golf club as say an 18 year old.

Where I am a talented golfer with some serious potential. I have dreams of winning on the professional tour. One day I am left out of an important match for a national cup. I am recovering from a wrist injury and the team captain tells me he is resting me. It turns out one of the scouts for the GB&I Walker Cup team attended (or the head of the golf team from the Univeristy of Alabama) unbeknownst to our team captain.

In time, I become a successful amateur golfer, content to enjoy my golf, representing my club.

Yet, I say to myself, in my narcissitic, deluded head, that if I played that day, I would have been selected for the Walker Cup or gotten a golf scholarship in the US, I would have made a name for myself, I would have received sponsorship to gain my tour card, I would have learned my trade in the professional ranks, I would have then won a few tournaments, I would have been invited to the Masters, I would have won a green jacket and $2 million in prize money. But I didn't. Because the team captain dropped me.
I am traumatised by the single decision.

So I decide to spend years going through litigation against the team captain
because I would have won the Masters if it wasn't for him.

That's how ridiculous this case is.

In both cases talent should win out. If he is good enough he will make it. If not he won't. Same with the golf analogy.

28-04-2017 01:01PM

kupus wrote: »

Ah the court system gives us another doozy.

You gotta love the system that is just fleecing people and their money.

How can you blame the courts for this one? The Court dismissed the case! The boy lost, and the general rule in civil litigation is that the losing side pays costs, unless for example the case raises novel and important points of law, which this certainly does not.

I'm not sure what you want here...some forum that sorts out the meritorious cases from the dubious and the frivolous ones? We already have that system. It's called 'the Courts'.

What lawyer took this on.

Worth bearing in mind that both sides were represented in court by barristers, and that a barrister can't pick and choose cases. It's called the cab rank rule, and operates in the same way as a taxi driver not being allowed to refuse fares (unless he's engaged or is off duty etc)

cursai · 28-04-2017 01:04PM

Hope this poor kid doesn't have any developmental issues. This is ridiculous.

jimmycrackcorm · 28-04-2017 01:06PM

Had the court case been won then it would have been the end of voluntary participation in clubs across the country.

Why would coaches and managers who are actually all voluntary take part if there was a chance that they could be sued over something so whimsical as doing a kid from a team?

Having a kid myself involved in a soccer club I do appreciate all the time that his voluntary manager and coach give up to do training and matches.

jelutong · 28-04-2017 01:09PM

hungry hypno toad wrote: »

Sue, sue, sue. Sue them all!!!

A Boy Named Sue.

corner of hells · 28-04-2017 01:39PM

Roy Keane and Dennis Irwin must be turning in thier graves , they are dead aren't they ?

razorblunt · 28-04-2017 01:47PM

This kid will be THAT guy you meet or work with in 10 years time who could "have made it" but for X, Y and Z. X normally being a dodgy knee, Y being booze and birds with Z now being dropped at u-13 level.

That's before you get into the can of worms that is the "bigger" teams in Cork poaching you if you were any good anyway.

bruschi · 28-04-2017 01:51PM

valoren wrote: »

I know that. He found his level. And it's not good enough for them. He would be premier league if not for a club and a manager deciding to drop him. That's what I'm reading into it.

This case is the equivalent of me being part of a golf club as say an 18 year old.

Where I am a talented golfer with some serious potential. I have dreams of winning on the professional tour. One day I am left out of an important match for a national cup. I am recovering from a wrist injury and the team captain tells me he is resting me. It turns out one of the scouts for the GB&I Walker Cup team attended (or the head of the golf team from the Univeristy of Alabama) unbeknownst to our team captain.

In time, I become a successful amateur golfer, content to enjoy my golf, representing my club.

Yet, I say to myself, in my narcissitic, deluded head, that if I played that day, I would have been selected for the Walker Cup or gotten a golf scholarship in the US, I would have made a name for myself, I would have received sponsorship to gain my tour card, I would have learned my trade in the professional ranks, I would have then won a few tournaments, I would have been invited to the Masters, I would have won a green jacket and $2 million in prize money. But I didn't. Because the team captain dropped me.
I am traumatised by the single decision.

So I decide to spend years going through litigation against the team captain
because I would have won the Masters if it wasn't for him.

That's how ridiculous this case is.

oh no, I do agree it is an utterly ridiculous case, just there is some potential in the chap, but as you say, vastly exaggerated and thought of. And who knows, maybe he would have been good enough if it wasnt for his interfering father

DumptyHumpty · 28-04-2017 01:58PM

Re the qualifications of the person who diagnosed the PTSD.
There is very interesting reading about the diagnoser available online.

Google: Fiona O'Leary - Goldfraud

Can't post links as I'm new to this forum...

fionao71 DOT tumblr DOT com

blackwhite · 28-04-2017 02:10PM

bruschi wrote: »

you do know that he is currently signed with Waterford United in the Airticity League? I know its not the EPL, but he must be someway good enough to be making it, despite his post traumatic stress condition.

TBH - the fact that he's currnetly signed for an Airtricity League team doesn't help his case at all. If he's made it to that level then surely scouts have had plenty of opportunity to see him play, and the one game he missed out on (whether unfairly or not) can't have counted for much.

bruschi · 28-04-2017 02:15PM

blackwhite wrote: »

TBH - the fact that he's currnetly signed for an Airtricity League team doesn't help his case at all. If he's made it to that level then surely scouts have had plenty of opportunity to see him play, and the one game he missed out on (whether unfairly or not) can't have counted for much.

exactly. if he was good enough, and if a team wanted him enough, he would have been picked up. He moved from the club within that season so didnt miss out on a load of playing time or anything.

my point initially was that he did have some sort of above average ability.

valoren · 28-04-2017 02:30PM

I wonder at the circumstances about how the father stopped managing the team.
It's interesting that the subsequent manager is the focus of this case.
It seems like this is nothing but a vendetta against the man.
It started with a vote of no confidence against him, which was defeated.
Not satisfied with this, they've chosen to focus on one match.
The mother caused a commotion about their son not getting picked.
Now the vendetta became personal, they wanted to destroy that coaches reputation however they could.
They would eventually bring it to court with a ridiculous claim of post traumatic stress disorder.
You get PTSD from getting shot at in Vietnam, not getting dropped from an u-13 match ffs.

The case is thrown out but still the father is on the radio, the son start tweeting about bullying etc.
The narrative of him being traumatised is nothing but a smokescreen.
You'd be amazed at the lengths people would go to destroy you.

That coach was put through the ringer here for no reason.
It's the kind of thing that put's off volunteers from giving their time.
Imagine having to spend the past few years with this hanging over you while these assholes smeared your name and attacked your integrity and slandered your reputation.

I don't know why anyone would volunteer knowing this kind of malicious behaviour happens.

Venom · 28-04-2017 02:56PM

DumptyHumpty wrote: »

Re the qualifications of the person who diagnosed the PTSD.
There is very interesting reading about the diagnoser available online.

Google: Fiona O'Leary - Goldfraud

Can't post links as I'm new to this forum...

fionao71 DOT tumblr DOT com

To make it easier for others

https://fionao71.tumblr.com/

Is the Caroline Goldsmith from the above link the one who diagnosed the kid from this lawsuit as having PTSD?

razorblunt · 28-04-2017 03:24PM

valoren wrote: »

I wonder at the circumstances about how the father stopped managing the team.
It's interesting that the subsequent manager is the focus of this case.
It seems like this is nothing but a vendetta against the man.
It started with a vote of no confidence against him, which was defeated.
Not satisfied with this, they've chosen to focus on one match.
The mother caused a commotion about their son not getting picked.
Now the vendetta became personal, they wanted to destroy that coaches reputation however they could.
They would eventually bring it to court with a ridiculous claim of post traumatic stress disorder.
You get PTSD from getting shot at in Vietnam, not getting dropped from an u-13 match ffs.

The case is thrown out but still the father is on the radio, the son start tweeting about bullying etc.
The narrative of him being traumatised is nothing but a smokescreen.
You'd be amazed at the lengths people would go to destroy you.

That coach was put through the ringer here for no reason.
It's the kind of thing that put's off volunteers from giving their time.
Imagine having to spend the past few years with this hanging over you while these assholes smeared your name and attacked your integrity and slandered your reputation.

I don't know why anyone would volunteer knowing this kind of malicious behaviour happens.

Went on to be manager or assistant manager for the Cork/Munster team I believe.
Apparently his son was picked for those teams too, when he was no longer regional coaching the kid wasn't selected for them again.

Teen who sued soccer club for trauma after he was dropped loses case

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