Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

CMOTDibbler · 19-04-2017 04:08PM

awec wrote: »

Impossible.

Hmmm...

awec wrote: »

I'll hold my hands up, I was wrong, Kearney selection completely vindicated so far.

awec wrote: »

Yea it looks like I was wrong.

:pac:

bilston · 19-04-2017 04:09PM

Buer wrote: »

awec wrote: »

Impossible.

When Payne lines out at 13 and Henderson lines out at lock for the Lions, it shall be a great, great day.

Henderson's best position is second row! That's where he plays his best rugby anyway.

swiwi_ · 19-04-2017 04:19PM

Teferi wrote: »

I like that Jared Payne pick. Pretty unexpected and underrated by everyone who isn't Irish. Could give everyone a nice surprise.

It's a masterstroke. Always handy to have someone who can translate the opposition tactics.

"...willie away...up 'n' under...first-five...2nd-five..."

He will also show the lads the best surfing spots round Tauranga, know a couple of mates who own a vineyard growing pinot and a bit of sauv blanc, and have a handle on the best micro-brews.

A no-brainer really.

Christy42 · 19-04-2017 04:20PM

awec wrote: »

That is exactly what it makes them, versatile. What other word is there for someone who can and does play multiple positions?

Heaslip doesn't cover 6 and 7. Moriarty does. Anything else is genuinely irrelevant. I don't think anyone would disagree that Heaslip is a better player than Moriarty but the fact he only plays #8 (and indisputable fact) undoubtedly will have counted against him even if he was fit.

Moriarty does not play multiple positions. It would be like putting 7 on Kearney's back and then telling him to play as normal. He could have a great game but that does not mean he is versatile. It means he played at 15 and someone stuck the number 7 on his back.

It is less obvious in the back row as what is important is the overall balance. If your 8 is a ground hog and your 7 carries like a beast then it still works and is less obvious they can't do whst their numbers dictate they should.

evolving tipperary · 19-04-2017 04:24PM

Isn't the eyebrow-raising omission Lanuchbury?

shootermacg · 19-04-2017 04:28PM

Is JH a better 6 than PoM? No
Is JH a better 7 than SoB, VDF? No
Is JH a better 8 than CJ? No

There you have it. CJ, PoM and Sob off to the Lions, tells me that better rugby brains than mine would be of that opinion :cool::cool::D:D

Faugheen · 19-04-2017 04:33PM

shootermacg wrote: »

Is JH a better 6 than PoM? No
Is JH a better 7 than SoB, VDF? No
Is JH a better 8 than CJ? No

There you have it. CJ, PoM and Sob off to the Lions, tells me that better rugby brains than mine would be of that opinion :cool::cool::D:D

Or that Heaslip isn't going to be fit in time, but anyway...

.ak · 19-04-2017 04:34PM

shootermacg wrote: »

Is JH a better 6 than PoM? No
Is JH a better 7 than SoB, VDF? No
Is JH a better 8 than CJ? No

There you have it. CJ, PoM and Sob off to the Lions, tells me that better rugby brains than mine would be of that opinion :cool::cool::D:D

Except JH is injured...

castletownman · 19-04-2017 04:34PM

Is there grounds to be critical of the apparent under-use of POM by Schmidt (and the usual claims of Leinster bias) with O'Mahoney being picked for the trip and Heislip sitting at home?

EDIT: A couple of posts tell me he's injured. But still, had he been fit would he have gone?

vienne86 · 19-04-2017 04:35PM

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Isn't the eyebrow-raising omission Lanuchbury?

I'm stunned by his omission. I'm surprised at Payne's inclusion, but he is the sort of player that Gatland would like. I consider SOB and Henderson to be lucky to be travelling. but POM was always nailed on for me. I thought Earls might make it.

kilns · 19-04-2017 04:35PM

castletownman wrote: »

Is there grounds to be critical of the apparent under-use of POM by Schmidt (and the usual claims of Leinster bias) with O'Mahoney being picked for the trip and Heislip sitting at home?

Heaslip is injured.....................................................................
..............................................................................

CMOTDibbler · 19-04-2017 04:38PM

castletownman wrote: »

Is there grounds to be critical of the apparent under-use of POM by Schmidt (and the usual claims of Leinster bias) with O'Mahoney being picked for the trip and Heislip sitting at home?

EDIT: A couple of posts tell me he's injured. But still, had he been fit would he have gone?

Warren Gatland is your man for that question.

The real question that you could probably answer yourself, is whether Moriarty is a better player.

evolving tipperary · 19-04-2017 04:42PM

vienne86 wrote: »

I'm stunned by his omission. I'm surprised at Payne's inclusion, but he is the sort of player that Gatland would like. I consider SOB and Henderson to be lucky to be travelling. but POM was always nailed on for me. I thought Earls might make it.

Payne inclusion is surprising. But, T'eo's inclusion is very VERY surprising, for me.

Given Henderson's injury history - I hope he stays injury free, obviously - I think Launchbury will play a part...

Teferi · 19-04-2017 04:42PM

castletownman wrote: »

Is there grounds to be critical of the apparent under-use of POM by Schmidt (and the usual claims of Leinster bias) with O'Mahoney being picked for the trip and Heislip sitting at home?

EDIT: A couple of posts tell me he's injured. But still, had he been fit would he have gone?

POM has been injured a bunch over the last 18 months or so, no?

.ak · 19-04-2017 04:52PM

castletownman wrote: »

Is there grounds to be critical of the apparent under-use of POM by Schmidt (and the usual claims of Leinster bias) with O'Mahoney being picked for the trip and Heislip sitting at home?

EDIT: A couple of posts tell me he's injured. But still, had he been fit would he have gone?

Impossible to know but I think moriarty's selection indicates yes, he would have. Moriarty filled his slot.

molloyjh · 19-04-2017 04:55PM

castletownman wrote: »

Is there grounds to be critical of the apparent under-use of POM by Schmidt (and the usual claims of Leinster bias) with O'Mahoney being picked for the trip and Heislip sitting at home?

EDIT: A couple of posts tell me he's injured. But still, had he been fit would he have gone?

Hard to say whether he'd have travelled or not. I'm sure you could find people arguing it one way or the other. Unless Gatland actually comes out and gives a definitive answer then we'll never really know. Personally I'd say yes he'd have gone, but that's only based on my own ratings of players and not anyone elses.

As for POM being underused by Ireland I really don't think that's true at all tbh. He's had a few injuries himself over the last few years but when he's been fit he has started far more often than not. When he didn't this season it was because he was coming back from injury and wasn't able to displace Stander straight away. Again there isn't much in that at all really.

English Lurker · 19-04-2017 05:00PM

Teferi wrote: »

POM has been injured a bunch over the last 18 months or so, no?

Bah. I say that you guys should hang Schmidt from the tallest building you can find for refusing to play an injured player

Hrm. Initial thoughts

a) I think I called POM, Payne and Te'o as sensible inclusions here. Henderson too. Engage smug mode.

b) No Hartley - yay

c) No Launchbury... uhm, okay. Drop your best performing lock (possibly player) of the last 12 months why don't you.

d) The bias is real. Identity of third choice props, Davies and Biggar travelling, more Welsh than Irish, only two Scots... yup. I think I'd refuse to watch this year if I was Scottish. Well, I guess we were warned. Don't think Payne travels without Andy Farrell on the coaching staff either, but he's a man who likes his defensive players and Payne has been very good there in international rugby. Probably accounts for Joseph too. We're just like they didn't pick Brad Barritt folks!

Decent enough squad though. Biggar and Davies are the only eye boggling selections there for me. Even omitting Launchbury kinda makes sense when you see what he took instead (although I think I'd have not taken Moriarty and gone with one less back row and one more second row).

Quint2010 · 19-04-2017 05:00PM

The entire starting pack v's England save for Ryan (who was probably very close and will be on the standby list I'm sure) is going. Can't underestimate how massive a performance that was.

Winters · 19-04-2017 05:11PM

I also think the Chicago game was key for Henshaw and Payne's inclusion.

19-04-2017 05:13PM

Quint2010 wrote: »

The entire starting pack v's England save for Ryan (who was probably very close and will be on the standby list I'm sure) is going. Can't underestimate how massive a performance that was.

There's been many people who have pointed out in general how mobile all the forwards are. Ryan is a lot of things but he's not mobile. I'd say that went against him.

swiwi_ · 19-04-2017 05:14PM

errlloyd wrote: »

You have to feel bad for the Scots. 2 players - after that 6 Nations. Slightly ridiculous.

This was a low-blow I read elsewhere online

So once again - more NZ-born representatives than Scot.

:pac:

CIARAN_BOYLE · 19-04-2017 05:16PM

swiwi_ wrote: »

errlloyd wrote: »

You have to feel bad for the Scots. 2 players - after that 6 Nations. Slightly ridiculous.

This was a low-blow I read elsewhere online

So once again - more NZ-born representatives than Scot.

:pac:

It was on this thread

razorblunt · 19-04-2017 05:22PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

Martin Johnson is a big fan too and reckons he played better than his little bro in the 6N

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgyizeBQso8

MJ drinking the kool aid as he's employed by Standard Life, keeps the Scots happy and feeling valid.

swiwi_ · 19-04-2017 05:23PM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

It was on this thread

Well, by the letter of the law my post still stands

Burkie1203 · 19-04-2017 05:35PM

castletownman wrote: »

Is there grounds to be critical of the apparent under-use of POM by Schmidt (and the usual claims of Leinster bias) with O'Mahoney being picked for the trip and Heislip sitting at home?

EDIT: A couple of posts tell me he's injured. But still, had he been fit would he have gone?

I wasnt fully tuned into the announcement but fairly sure i heard Heaslip name checked by Gatland. Think he was in the conversation anyway

All irrelevent though and Lions selections bear no reflection on Ireland given its different coaches and a different squad altogether on a tour

Edit - By that logic you use does Hendersons selection for the lions therefore validate his selection ahead of Ryan for ireland v scotland in february?

Christy42 · 19-04-2017 05:39PM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

I wasnt fully tuned into the announcement but fairly sure i heard Heaslip name checked by Gatland. Think he was in the conversation anyway

All irrelevent though and Lions selections bear no reflection on Ireland given its different coaches and a different squad altogether on a tour

Agreed some seem to think the Lions selection is a complete guarantee of being a better player when it is the opinion of a different coach. A coach who damn near lost against the weakest Australia team in decades and has struggled against the SH in general.

Granted I agree with most of the selections he has made this time around.

irishbucsfan · 19-04-2017 05:51PM

FF:

https://twitter.com/LeighHalfpenny1/status/854738293715591169

twinytwo · 19-04-2017 05:52PM

so based on the current squad what do people consider the strongest/possible starting 15 for the first test?

While i can never see this happening id go for

1. McGrath .
2. Owens
3. Furlong
4. AWJ
5. Itoje
6. POM
7. Warburton
8. Stander
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Daly
12. Farrell
13. Henshaw
14. North
15. Hogg

or bring henshaw to 12 with joseph at 13

.ak · 19-04-2017 05:59PM

English Lurker wrote: »

Bah. I say that you guys should hang Schmidt from the tallest building you can find for refusing to play an injured player

Hrm. Initial thoughts

a) I think I called POM, Payne and Te'o as sensible inclusions here. Henderson too. Engage smug mode.

b) No Hartley - yay

c) No Launchbury... uhm, okay. Drop your best performing lock (possibly player) of the last 12 months why don't you.

d) The bias is real. Identity of third choice props, Davies and Biggar travelling, more Welsh than Irish, only two Scots... yup. I think I'd refuse to watch this year if I was Scottish. Well, I guess we were warned. Don't think Payne travels without Andy Farrell on the coaching staff either, but he's a man who likes his defensive players and Payne has been very good there in international rugby. Probably accounts for Joseph too. We're just like they didn't pick Brad Barritt folks!

Decent enough squad though. Biggar and Davies are the only eye boggling selections there for me. Even omitting Launchbury kinda makes sense when you see what he took instead (although I think I'd have not taken Moriarty and gone with one less back row and one more second row).

In fairness I think Davies had a solid tournament. Wouldn't consider him an eyebrow raiser at all. When you think of what's available at 13 there's a lot of unknowns; Payne has his limitations but is a solid footballer, Joseph will take a mile if you give him an inch but is far from the physicality required, Henshaw has only a handful of minutes at 13 in test footy under his belt, same as Daly. So Davies is probably the most experienced and the coaches know him as well as he knows himself.

Biggar has credit in the bank. He's an awesome fly half when he's ticking well and his place kicking is up there with Ian Madigan's when he's on form. Himself and Ian are the two most technically sound strikers of the ball in Europe imo.

Moriarty is a strange one, but as Heaslip is injured and out for the summer by all accounts then it makes sense. Moriarty is an absolute beast and his physicality will come in handy, even if he is an insufferable something something.

Launchbery for me is the only really odd call. I also would've considered bringing Russell instead of Biggar as he's the kind of guy who'll come on against the ABs and relish in playing a flat game with 20 min to go.

All in all I'm very happy. I'd have liked to see a couple of other Irish go, I think Toner deserved a call up but if a specialist like Launchbury isn't going then he won't. I also thought Carbery might sneak in there as a bolter/mascot holder. Apparently he was a breath of fresh air in Chicago and Joe alluded to his calmness. I think a player like that would've added a lot to the squad dynamic.

As it is, who is the mascot holder? Who's the youngest?

aloooof · 19-04-2017 06:01PM

castletownman wrote: »

Is there grounds to be critical of the apparent under-use of POM by Schmidt (and the usual claims of Leinster bias) with O'Mahoney being picked for the trip and Heislip sitting at home?

EDIT: A couple of posts tell me he's injured. But still, had he been fit would he have gone?

Hard to say, but even if Heaslip was fit now, one thing we do know is that Heaslip's injury in the warm-up of the England game likely had a massive effect on O'Mahony being picked. He was immense in that game, and obviously players don't get picked on the back of 1 game, but the only other international he's started this season was against Canada.

Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

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