Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

PTH2009

Are the pics of the players in the lions gear edited from there national/club profile pictures ???

1eg0a3xv7b82of

lions will be up against it anyway but by picking a biased squad Gatland has sealed the deal.
The lions are up against the no 1 nation in the world not australia in transition.
the backs especially are nothing special.

But by picking a biased squad the players going and staying know its a biased squad and so if gatland leans welsh with his starting team selections it will all fall apart.
New Zealand was always going to be tough but teo snickler payne halfpeeny bigger davies tipuric they are not even close to whats needed for a series win.
New Zealand want these guys on tour as they know they are not good enough.
The decision of 2 scots is a complete joke and being honest Scotland RFU should ask hogg and seymour to not go as protest.
2 scots belittles the whole thing before it starts.
They best us they beat wales and yet 2 players.
Crazy

irishbucsfan

https://twitter.com/chjones9/status/854778294956437505

thomond2006

Lyra Long Drug wrote: »

lions will be up against it anyway but by picking a biased squad Gatland has sealed the deal.
The lions are up against the no 1 nation in the world not australia in transition.
the backs especially are nothing special.

But by picking a biased squad the players going and staying know its a biased squad and so if gatland leans welsh with his starting team selections it will all fall apart.
New Zealand was always going to be tough but teo snickler payne halfpeeny bigger davies tipuric they are not even close to whats needed for a series win.
New Zealand want these guys on tour as they know they are not good enough.
The decision of 2 scots is a complete joke and being honest Scotland RFU should ask hogg and seymour to not go as protest.
2 scots belittles the whole thing before it starts.
They best us they beat wales and yet 2 players.
Crazy

I don't know where to begin with this rubbish.

Burkie1203

thomond2006 wrote: »

I don't know where to begin with this rubbish.

Basically the whinge is about 1, maybe 2 scottish players not making it. And even then its debatable like about 12 of the 41 man squad where there is a guy of similar ability not in the original 41 man squad

If that squad can be largely in tact by the time the first test comes around they have a chance.

Buer

bucsfan wrote: »

https://twitter.com/chjones9/status/854778294956437505

That pretty much nails on Farrell at 12.

Joking aside, I think Farrell might be travelling as an outhalf more than a centre. Gatland has brought Te'o, Davies, Henshaw, Payne, Joseph and Daly. Either Farrell will be playing a good bit at 10 or one or two of those lads are barely going to see the field.

Bazzo

FrannoFan wrote: »

Has there been a "left out 15" done yet? just quick thoughts
Healy
Hartley
Samson Lee
Launchbury
Toner/Gray
Haskill
Robshaw/(VDF?beat NZ unlike most going)
Heaslip/hughes

9)Care
10)Ford/Jackson/Russell(wildcard Carbery)
11) ?Zebo?
12)Welsh lad-played 6 nations. name escapes me
13)Ringrose
14) Earls?
15) Brown

Seems about right to me. Arguements could be made for Robshaw, Maitland, Brown.

padser

PTH2009 wrote: »

Are the pics of the players in the lions gear edited from there national/club profile pictures ???

I think I remember back in 2013 it emerged that pretty much every national player has taken a photo in Lions gear earlier on in the season - but there was still someone who snuck into the squad they had no picture for.... can't remember who though

jr86

If it really is a (fit) Sexton and Farrell shoot out for 10 it would be a fascinating sub-plot.

It would open the door for a "surprise" at 13 too given - I'd imagine - Henshaw will be 12. Teo or Payne may well find themselves in a test 15 if they impress in the warm ups - even without injuries

jr86

padser wrote: »

I think I remember back in 2013 it emerged that pretty much every national player has taken a photo in Lions gear earlier on in the season - but there was still someone who snuck into the squad they had no picture for.... can't remember who though

Matt Stevens?

Former Former

I don't think we'll see Farrell at 12. It works for England because Ford couldn't really do it alone and there's no question that Farrell is the senior player - but putting him and Sexton beside each other on the field, there's as likely to get in each other's way as anything else. And they're both spiky enough characters too...

FrannoFan

Former Former wrote: »

I don't think we'll see Farrell at 12. It works for England because Ford couldn't really do it alone and there's no question that Farrell is the senior player - but putting him and Sexton beside each other on the field, there's as likely to get in each other's way as anything else. And they're both spiky enough characters too...

Can wait and see who comes out on top between them in the European cup final-good audition for the lions

Christy42

Lyra Long Drug wrote: »

lions will be up against it anyway but by picking a biased squad Gatland has sealed the deal.
The lions are up against the no 1 nation in the world not australia in transition.
the backs especially are nothing special.

But by picking a biased squad the players going and staying know its a biased squad and so if gatland leans welsh with his starting team selections it will all fall apart.
New Zealand was always going to be tough but teo snickler payne halfpeeny bigger davies tipuric they are not even close to whats needed for a series win.
New Zealand want these guys on tour as they know they are not good enough.
The decision of 2 scots is a complete joke and being honest Scotland RFU should ask hogg and seymour to not go as protest.
2 scots belittles the whole thing before it starts.
They best us they beat wales and yet 2 players.
Crazy

Laid law is the only player I can think of from Scotland who can feel hard done by. Russell was terrible without Laid law beside him when Glasgow needed him.

Sure they beat us on the day but realistically that was down to us making mistakes as opposed to them beating us. Fair play for holding back the comeback and all but that ain't gonna cut it in NZ (granted I don't think all these Welsh will do it either but that is a different story).

minitrue

BT inspired me so by country of birth the figures are:
16 England
8 Wales
7 Republic of Ireland
3 New Zealand
2 Northern Ireland
1 Scotland, Tonga, United States, South Africa, Australia

Moriarty was born in England to a Welsh dual-code international league father playing there and I think it's fair enough to call him an accident of birth and move him back to the Welsh pile.
Faletau has a Tongan father and was born in Tonga, but at the time his dad was playing in Wales and I think he always lived in Wales so again I'll put him back.
Jonathan Davies was born in England to Welsh parents and moved back to Wales young so he should go back.
George North born in England to Welsh/English parents and moved to Wales aged 2 so back to the Wales pile.
Seymour was born in the States and lived there until he was 9, then after 18 months in Dubai he went to Northern Ireland and didn't move to Scotland until he was 21. No chance he goes in the Scotland pile, USA or Northern Ireland is a good argument but let's give USA 1
That leaves the Vunipolas who count above as Australia and NZ, have a Tongan international father (Tongan mother?), moved to Wales ages 6/7 and England around secondary school age when Billy got a scholarship to Harrow. You could put them anywhere but I think I'm going with Tonga.
Payne (arrived at 25), Stander (22) and Te'o (27) aren't moving.

So that would give us (with the marginal calls *):
13 England
12 Wales
7 Republic of Ireland
2 New Zealand
2 Northern Ireland
2 Tonga* (Vunipolas, Wales or England the argument)
1 Scotland, South Africa, United States* (Seymour NI the argument)

So for me Hogg is the only Scotsman (or at least real product of Scottish rugby) and England and Wales have virtually equal representation (despite roughly an 18:1 population ratio). Hopefully I didn't miss anyone else who should really be shifted from their country of birth?

aloooof

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Nine Irishmen making the 41 isnt exactly a ringing endorsement of our academies and ability to produce top level players either though.

In fairness to the Scots, two is about right I feel. They have made great progress, and overall, their squad is better in the last few years. But closing the gap does not earn Lions places. You have to be better than the alternatives, and man for man, that just isnt really the case.

I'll bite, but eleven nine out of 41 is almost 1 in 4 players for a team picked from 4 countries. Given one of those countries is England, who have far more resources than us, we're probably well above par.

English Lurker

aloooof wrote: »

I'll bite, but eleven nine out of 41 is almost 1 in 4 players for a team picked from 4 countries. Given one of those countries is England, who have far more resources than us, we're probably well above par.

10 if you're going by academy produced, Seymour came through at Ulster.

irishbucsfan

For people wondering where Jared Payne is being considered, Rob Howley was talking about how important Jared Payne's defensive ability will be in wide channels. Against the All Blacks.

If Payne does play 13 then I don't think Farrell plays 12. It'll be Henshaw or Te'o.

Clegg

Gatland thinks the Lions superior goalkicking will give them an advantage over New Zealand. One of Farrell or Halfpenny to start then.

Should have brought Ferg.

bilston

I think the Lions selection makes clear the weakest part of the Ireland squad. The back three. The irony being that given Earls, Zebo and Trimble will probably now tour USA and Japan it will limit the chances to give the likes of Sweetman, Byrne and Stockdale a shot.

Erik Shin

bilston wrote: »

I think the Lions selection makes clear the weakest part of the Ireland squad. The back three. The irony being that given Earls, Zebo and Trimble will probably now tour USA and Japan it will limit the chances to give the likes of Sweetman, Byrne and Stockdale a shot.

Looking at some of the Lions picks...and some of the ones left out, i don't think anything can be drawn from the players left out..... Probably a good chance that at least one of that trio could travel before the tour gets to the real buisnes end.

Buer

Erik Shin wrote: »

Looking at some of the Lions picks...and some of the ones left out, i don't think anything can be drawn from the players left out..... Probably a good chance that at least one of that trio could travel before the tour gets to the real buisnes end.

True enough but if someone gets called up mid tour, similar to how Zebo was called up last time and not replaced, I don't see Ireland bringing a young lad out to Japan for 1-2 weeks. If the Irish squad leaves for the tour, I don't see any call ups to replace Lions call ups unless there's more than one in any position.

Aside from multiple call ups, the only way a player gets called up is if someone cops an injury/suspension before the Lions/Ireland depart on tour.

padser

Yeah, I agree - I think call ups are going to fewer than previous years. People keep saying guys like Ringrose, Healy etc might get a call up, but realistically with a 41 man squad I think there would have to more than one injury in a position to justify a mid tour call up at this stage.....

Buer

bilston wrote: »

I think the Lions selection makes clear the weakest part of the Ireland squad. The back three. The irony being that given Earls, Zebo and Trimble will probably now tour USA and Japan it will limit the chances to give the likes of Sweetman, Byrne and Stockdale a shot.

I think Earls will be disappointed. He didn't have a good 2016 but has come back strongly this year and is close to his best. I certainly think he has gone as well and better than someone like Tommy Seymour who hasn't reached the levels this year that he was hitting 12 months ago.

But our back three is undoubtedly the weakest unit, in my opinion. We don't have anyone who you look at and think that's a guy who is consistently world class. With Bowe's race ran, the rest of the back three division are all capable of great showings but also all capable of stinkers too.

Despite Earls' showings I don't think anyone is too shocked that no Irish winger made the tour.

irishbucsfan

Buer wrote: »

True enough but if someone gets called up mid tour, similar to how Zebo was called up last time and not replaced, I don't see Ireland bringing a young lad out to Japan for 1-2 weeks. If the Irish squad leaves for the tour, I don't see any call ups to replace Lions call ups unless there's more than one in any position.

Aside from multiple call ups, the only way a player gets called up is if someone cops an injury/suspension before the Lions/Ireland depart on tour.

Maybe it'd be the ideal circumstances to produce another Rhys Ruddock-esque trip for an u20 player. If they can somehow get them over from Tbilisi!

Buer

Some interesting comments in the Telegraph's piece on the squad. Completely natural but Gatland certainly lets his experience of Wales colour his decisions. JJ gets in because he causes Wales problems when they play. Ringrose very unlucky. Launchbury appears to have missed out due to Lawes getting the nod. Warburton captain an easy call. Murray needs to play in the next month or might be left at home.

“He’s a point of difference – his footwork, his speed, the lines he ran against Scotland were outstanding. He’s got some weaknesses but when I look at it from a Welsh ­perspective, he’s the one player who causes us so many problems when we play England because of his footwork and pace.

“Garry Ringrose was very unlucky to miss out. He’s had a good Six Nations and he’ll learn from that. Andy Farrell thinks that in six months’ time, he’s someone that’s going to be incredibly special.”

“We just discussed the differences between Courtney [Lawes] and Joe,” Gatland added. “I understand about Joe, and the disappointment that’s obviously going to be there. But it was a tough call.”

The simplest decision for ­Gatland, it seems, was his captain, with Sam Warburton becoming the first since Martin Johnson to lead ­successive Lions tours. Warburton, who is currently sidelined with a knee ­injury, said on Wednesday that he expected to be fully fit before the start of the tour.

“One of the things I admire about Sam is that it’s not about Sam Warburton, it’s about the team first, and he’d be the first one to understand that if someone is better than him in the No  7 position, whether it’s Sean [O’Brien] or Justin [Tipuric] or whoever else, and we picked him over Sam, then Sam would understand that,” said Gatland.

There are also injury concerns about Ireland scrum-half Conor Murray, who is struggling with a shoulder/neck nerve injury and has been told he must play before the end of the season to guarantee his place.

WeleaseWoderick

Not a huge amount to complain about from an Irish perspective. I'd have taken Ringrose (probably ahead of Teo) and I reckon Heaslip would have been in Moriarty's spot if not for injury. Healy vs Marler was a tight one too but wouldn't be too annoyed at that.

On the surface of it, 2 Scots looks pretty insulting for a team that beat Ireland & Wales but like others have said, I'm struggling to suggest which Scottish players have been hard done by. I'd probably have gone with Jonny Gray over Henderson/Lawes but equally, Launchbury should be ahead of all of those in my eyes.

I do find it a little funny that the Vunipola family have as many representatives as Scotland though!

Buer

WeleaseWoderick wrote: »

I do find it a little funny that the Vunipola family have as many representatives as Scotland though!

More, technically. Faletau is their cousin.

awec

PTH2009 wrote: »

Are the pics of the players in the lions gear edited from there national/club profile pictures ???

No.

Around 100 players sign Lions contracts in the weeks leading up to the squad announcement and get their photo taken in the jersey.

swiwi_

Webbs

swiwi_ wrote: »

Is this ironic New Zealand humour??