Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

Former Former

irishbucsfan wrote: »

FF:

https://twitter.com/LeighHalfpenny1/status/854738293715591169

.ak

twinytwo wrote: »

so based on the current squad what do people consider the strongest/possible starting 15 for the first test?

While i can never see this happening id go for

1. McGrath .
2. Owens
3. Furlong
4. AWJ
5. Itoje
6. POM
7. Warburton
8. Stander
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Daly
12. Farrell
13. Henshaw
14. North
15. Hogg

or bring henshaw to 12 with joseph at 13

Mako
Owens
Furlong
Itoje
AWJ
Stander
Warburton
Billy
Murray
Sexton
North
Farrell
Henshaw
Daly
Hogg

George, McGrath, Cole, Kruis, SOB, Webb, T'eo, Williams

Squidgy Black

Deleted User wrote: »

Is there a breakdown of club any where?

Props: Dan Cole (Leicester), Tadhg Furlong (Leinster), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Jack McGrath (Leinster), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Mako Vunipola (Saracens).

Hookers: Rory Best (Ulster), Jamie George (Saracens), Ken Owens (Scarlets).

Locks: Iain Henderson (Ulster), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), George Kruis (Saracens), Courtney Lawes (Northampton).

Back rows: Taulupe Faletau (Bath), Ross Moriarty (Gloucester), Sean O'Brien (Leinster), Peter O'Mahony (Munster), CJ Stander (Munster), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Billy Vunipola (Saracens), Sam Warburton (Cardiff).

Scrum-halves: Conor Murray (Munster), Rhys Webb (Ospreys), Ben Youngs (Leicester).

Fly-halves: Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Owen Farrell (Saracens), Jonathan Sexton (Leinster).

Centres: Jonathan Davies (Scarlets), Robbie Henshaw (Leinster), Jonathan Joseph (Bath), Ben Te'o (Worcester).

Back three: Elliot Daly (Wasps), Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon), Stuart Hogg (Glasgow), George North (Northampton), Jack Nowell (Exeter), Jared Payne (Ulster), Tommy Seymour (Glasgow), Anthony Watson (Bath), Liam Williams (Scarlets).

Rightwing

Regardless of who was picked, the ABs have a clear advantage in the backs. Apart from Best, I'd like to see as many Ire players as possible in the forwards. Lions have the advantage in the forwards ir right team is picked. Hartley's omission could be costly.

Squidgy Black

So thats:

Saracens - 6
Leinster - 5
Ospreys - 4
Munster - 3
Bath - 3
Ulster - 3
Scarlets - 3
Harlequins - 2
Leicester - 2
Northampton - 2
Glasgow - 2
Gloucester - 1
Worcester - 1
Wasps - 1
Cardiff - 1
Toulon - 1
Exeter - 1

Sangre

.ak wrote: »

As it is, who is the mascot holder? Who's the youngest?

Itoje I think (unbelievably).

awec

At least they included the best part

PetKing

awec wrote:

At least they included the best part

BT Sport are being schooled in geography over on Twitter!

jr86

Was half hoping he'd go for a "left-field" out-half, Carbury, Cipriani or even Lozowski - Biggar is such an uninspiring selection at the moment

Launchbury is very strange, not only this year but he was one of their only bright hopes in the RWC and I'll never forget how effective he was against us in Twickenham 2014.

That said it's hard to read too much into it yet, I'd be expecting some out of Launchbury, Gray, Care, Robshaw, Healy, Ringrose, Earls, Zebo, Gareth Davies, Laidlaw, Haskell to end up featuring yet.

Who is everyone's first test "bolter" for want of a better word? Guys like Rob Henderson, Monye, Croft were well down most people's pecking orders in recent years and ended up forcing their way in to the starting test side, due to injuries/form whatever.

Be interesting to look back at the time and see who was on the money.

Out of those currently on the plane, I could see Teo actually nabbing the 13 shirt and I wouldn't even totally write off Courtney Lawes. Both are "flashy" in a way at what they do, Lawes is well able to make some extravagant big hits and on his day is fantastic at turning over ball and putting in hard yards. He's the type I could see looking better than he is in warm up matches. The 13 shirt looks wide open as of now

I can see Nowell starting too but not overly sure how surprising that would be, I for one rate him extremely highly

Maybe we'll see an "unusual" position switch, like Wilkinson to 12 in 2005, and didn't Alfie start a test at 13 that year, or am I dreaming?

jr86

Sangre wrote: »

Itoje I think (unbelievably).

I never fully rated Cuthbert but it'd be hard to believe in 2013 he wouldn't even come into the conversation for a place on the plane this time around.

Goes to show how things can change

English Lurker

.ak wrote: »

In fairness I think Davies had a solid tournament. Wouldn't consider him an eyebrow raiser at all. When you think of what's available at 13 there's a lot of unknowns; Payne has his limitations but is a solid footballer, Joseph will take a mile if you give him an inch but is far from the physicality required, Henshaw has only a handful of minutes at 13 in test footy under his belt, same as Daly. So Davies is probably the most experienced and the coaches know him as well as he knows himself.

Biggar has credit in the bank. He's an awesome fly half when he's ticking well and his place kicking is up there with Ian Madigan's when he's on form. Himself and Ian are the two most technically sound strikers of the ball in Europe imo.

Moriarty is a strange one, but as Heaslip is injured and out for the summer by all accounts then it makes sense. Moriarty is an absolute beast and his physicality will come in handy, even if he is an insufferable something something.

Launchbery for me is the only really odd call. I also would've considered bringing Russell instead of Biggar as he's the kind of guy who'll come on against the ABs and relish in playing a flat game with 20 min to go.

All in all I'm very happy. I'd have liked to see a couple of other Irish go, I think Toner deserved a call up but if a specialist like Launchbury isn't going then he won't. I also thought Carbery might sneak in there as a bolter/mascot holder. Apparently he was a breath of fresh air in Chicago and Joe alluded to his calmness. I think a player like that would've added a lot to the squad dynamic.

As it is, who is the mascot holder? Who's the youngest?

Some fair points on Davies. I do think his attacking potential is too busted to offer anything much and that there's two better defenders going in Payne and Joseph, but he does have a lot of experience its true.

Biggar I really can't agree. I think he's a pretty mediocre player international-wise when it comes to leading and dictating the attack. I'll give you that he's a fine goal kicker but that's not enough. Russell, Jackson, Ford... I'd have taken pretty much anyone else ahead of him.

Not sure I buy Moriarty as a Heaslip replacement because there's still 3 better 8s in the squad than Moriarty. Still, he's a useful enough player. Not sure he offers a huge deal more than Haskell but not complaining. In any case, I reckon 8 back rows with at least 3 locks who can play 6 is more than ample, and would have rather had 7 back rows with an extra lock.

I guess Launchbury loses out as he's not the greatest lineout guy. Possibly smells like a Borthwick decision. England's looked inexplicably short of trust at times for him too.

I'd have definitely taken Healy ahead of Marler and I think with any other scrummaging coach than Rowntree that would have happened. Both Toner and Ryan unlucky to miss out but mobility seems to be the name of the game here. Think there's a lot of Irish backs who could have made it in a non-Concreteball team. But there we go.

edit:

PetKing wrote: »

BT Sport are being schooled in geography over on Twitter!

Makes Ulster's performance in the Pro12 even more shocking.

p.s. Henshaw-Te'o as a pairing looks very likely to me.

Bazzo

awec wrote: »

At least they included the best part

Lol, how on earth did they produce that **** up?

Rightwing

Bazzo wrote: »

Lol, how on earth did they produce that **** up?

Probably did it on purpose to wind up the Irish, they know how it is that easy is, if someon says 'he's irish', a meltdown.

Neil3030

Bazzo wrote: »

Lol, how on earth did they produce that **** up?

It's ban'ah, innit?

The Rape of Lucretia

swiwi_ wrote: »

This was a low-blow I read elsewhere online

So once again - more NZ-born representatives than Scot.

:pac:

Nine Irishmen making the 41 isnt exactly a ringing endorsement of our academies and ability to produce top level players either though.

In fairness to the Scots, two is about right I feel. They have made great progress, and overall, their squad is better in the last few years. But closing the gap does not earn Lions places. You have to be better than the alternatives, and man for man, that just isnt really the case.

OldRio

awec wrote: »

At least they included the best part

Deary me. That's priceless.

irishbucsfan

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Nine Irishmen making the 41 isnt exactly a ringing endorsement of our academies and ability to produce top level players either though.

In fairness to the Scots, two is about right I feel. They have made great progress, and overall, their squad is better in the last few years. But closing the gap does not earn Lions places. You have to be better than the alternatives, and man for man, that just isnt really the case.

Is eleven a ringing endorsement?

bilston

awec wrote: »

At least they included the best part

Hahahahaha.

That made me snigger.

bilston

FB is an interesting one. Hogg is great to watch but I worry about him a bit at the back.

This probably wouldn't be a popular call but I'd have been tempted to have brought Brown along.

The Rape of Lucretia

Christy42 wrote: »

Agreed some seem to think the Lions selection is a complete guarantee of being a better player when it is the opinion of a different coach. A coach who damn near lost against the weakest Australia team in decades and has struggled against the SH in general.

And the Judas, Brutus, Arnold, who betrayed Our Lord and dropped him.
This cannot be stated often enough. Nothing should shock us Gatty re Lions at this stage.
Dropped him. Dropped him. It will be a painful anniversary for all of us.

irishman86

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Nine Irishmen making the 41 isnt exactly a ringing endorsement of our academies and ability to produce top level players either though.

In fairness to the Scots, two is about right I feel. They have made great progress, and overall, their squad is better in the last few years. But closing the gap does not earn Lions places. You have to be better than the alternatives, and man for man, that just isnt really the case.

Do the Welsh deserve 12 though, most rugby people would say hell ****ing no

irishman86

bilston wrote: »

FB is an interesting one. Hogg is great to watch but I worry about him a bit at the back.

This probably wouldn't be a popular call but I'd have been tempted to have brought Brown along.

I would have took Brown every day over HP, unfortunate for him he doesnt represent the correct country

CurryFlavoured

Surprising inclusions for me were Henderson, Payne, Moriarty. I like Hendo and Payne but given their situation this season it was surprising. Also didn't expect us to get 3 flankers in.

Biggest exclusion was Joe Launchbury, no words for that. Thought he was maybe Englands best player, definitely top 3 this 6N. Little bit surprised with Hartley but hooker was wide open.

Buer

With a squad of 41 it will be hard for Gatland to ensure a two tier squad doesn't develop. 8 back row players and that's not including Itoje, Henderson or Lawes who all have big experience at 6.

I think that there are a handful of guys travelling that Gatland already has earmarked as "good tourists" who don't figure (for now, anyway) in his plans for the test side. I think he has about 5 lads there who he sees as guys who will give it their all in midweek games against provincial sides looking to beat up the Lions.

It may change and if any of them get down there and start tearing it up that could force their way into plans but I would imagine Nowell, Moriarty, Lawes, POM (perfect captain for a midweek side), Marler, Biggar and Seymour are those guys. That's not to criticise them. They're Lions and deserving ones. But I just don't imagine that Gatland has selected those lads with the idea that they're going to line out against NZ.

I just don't see guys like North, Watson, Williams, Sexton, Farrell, Stander, Itoje, AWJ etc. being viewed by the coaching staff in the same bracket.

PTH2009

Could be a Joe Smit managed lions vs a Rassie Managed south Africa in 2021

CurryFlavoured

bilston wrote: »

FB is an interesting one. Hogg is great to watch but I worry about him a bit at the back.

This probably wouldn't be a popular call but I'd have been tempted to have brought Brown along.

I would've brought Brown ahead of Halfpenny, who kicking aside isn't spectacular. Brown might be a you know what but he's a quality player. I'd still have Hogg as starter ahead of both.

FrannoFan

Has there been a "left out 15" done yet? just quick thoughts
Healy
Hartley
Samson Lee
Launchbury
Toner/Gray
Haskill
Robshaw/(VDF?beat NZ unlike most going)
Heaslip/hughes

9)Care
10)Ford/Jackson/Russell(wildcard Carbery)
11) ?Zebo?
12)Welsh lad-played 6 nations. name escapes me
13)Ringrose
14) Earls?
15) Brown

jr86

Brown is a little bit unlucky with the years the Tours have fell. He was made a regular England starter perhaps later than he should have been, and in 2013 he was mainly operating on the wing. In 2014 he was player of the 6n and immense again in 2015. He was still more than good enough last year but he definitely declined in attacking prowess in this year's campaign

That said you do know what you'll get with him and I would have been tempted bring him.

It might not be overly popular either here but I do think Robshaw is a little hard done by. He was a major part of England's unbeaten year and with Kruis excused for this year's 6n, he can perhaps feel a little aggrieved he wasn't afforded the same courtesy. 12 months earlier and he was a certainty

He's a player who should probably still pack his bags though, given the chances of a back-rower getting injured are surely high

jr86

I thought Care had half a chance too. He's the type you could see changing a game with his pace and liveliness from the bench. Much more so than youngs

If I do remember correctly though he's always been a bit of a rabbit in the headlights v NZ. He tends to save his better performances for inferior opposition, as opposed to his counterparts who are well able to step up to the plate in the big matches

pickarooney

Te'o is like the Lidl version of Tuilagi. Pity the latter is chronically unavailable. There are very few areas where this side is on a par with NZ.