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Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

1…5657596162…150

Comments

  • #1742
    Larbre34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,230 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Ringrose could well end up out there mid-tour, but I'll say it again, he needs a NZ lions tour at this stage of his development like a hole in the head.

    Just wait for the aftermath and the drop in performance next year from the touring squad, its brutal.


  • #1743
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    I'm a bit surprised not to Ringrose or Heaslip but delighted for O'Mahony!

    And the fact that neither Hartly nor Brown made the cut is icing on the cake.

    Not sure how I feel about Warburton as Captain though.....I still prefer Best.


  • #1744
    Neil3030
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    awec wrote: »
    I swear if Gatland picks Henshaw and Payne in midfield the tiny shred of respect I have for him will evaporate instantly and he'll come close to joining Lord Nucifora on my list of people who are not to be trusted and must be actively opposed in all they do.

    It could happen. As long as Farrell starts at 12, it'll either be Henshaw or Davies outside him, but if Henshaw gets the nod at 12, my favoured pick at 13 would be Payne, tbh.


  • #1745
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,595 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    I'm a bit surprised not to Ringrose or Heaslip but delighted for O'Mahony!
    Heaslip is injured. Theres no date of return set but the most common return date hinted is next September. Not seeing the surprise.


  • #1746
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    As far as I can tell Ringrose shone on the website but didn't shine on the field of play during the 6N so he's best kept at home.

    Heaslip didn't do enough either, injury or no injury. Earls/Zebo also fall into this category.


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  • #1747
    D14Rugby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    Buer wrote: »
    A lot of those guys are completely legitimate and reasonable calls by the coaching team. I get the impression it wouldn't matter who he called up.

    Huw Jones tore his hamstring off the bone in the 6N. Not sure how you expected him to be involved.

    I know he's injured, I'd call that unlucky wouldn't you. I never said that all these players shouldn't be involved just they were lucky bar one or two who really shouldn't be there te'o etc, but most were players I thought got in on 50/50 calls or best of a bad bunch.


  • #1748
    whatawaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,911 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster


    Rightwing wrote: »
    As far as I can tell Ringrose shone on the website but didn't shine on the field of play during the 6N so he's best kept at home.

    Heaslip didn't do enough either, injury or no injury. Earls/Zebo also fall into this category.

    Huh? Ringrose had a really good 6 nations. As good as Henshaw I thought.


  • #1749
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,196 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Brewster wrote: »
    Comparing Earls Ireland try scoring record to Payne's is not a runner, Payne only became irish qualified a few years ago! It is hard to compare players in different positions, but when all attributes are considered, Payne is a better fullback/centre than Earls is a winger. It is easier to compare Payne to Zebo in a straight fullback v fullback battle, and Payne is just a classier player. Zebo is a great player, Payne I believe borders the world class category in that he would get in to any squad in the world, including NZ albeit with Ben Smith ahead of him, who himself is probably the best fullback in the world...

    Payne wouldn't get near a squad with Ben Smith, Nehe Milner Skudder, Damien McKenzie, Israel Dagg and Jordie Barrett to choose from at FB.


  • #1750
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    whatawaster wrote: »
    Huh? Ringrose had a really good 6 nations. As good as Henshaw I thought.

    Nah, only flashes of what he may be capable of. More hype than substance at the minute, at this level anyway.


  • #1751
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    Heaslip is injured. Theres no date of return set but the most common return date hinted is next September. Not seeing the surprise.

    Ah ok, I didn't realize that. No need to be snippy.

    I'm still surprised that Ringrose didn't get a place.


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  • #1752
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Nah, only flashes of what he may be capable of. More hype than substance at the minute, at this level anyway.

    Maybe for you. A lot of others think he was good and Gatland singled him out as unlucky not to be travelling.

    If someone like Joseph or Payne get hurt I'd say we'll see him.


  • #1753
    GymJim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 448 ✭✭GymJim


    pickarooney wrote: »
    Payne wouldn't get near a squad with Ben Smith, Nehe Milner Skudder, Damien McKenzie, Israel Dagg and Jordie Barrett to choose from at FB.

    Don't get this point, of course he wouldn't but neither would Earls, Zebo, Kearney, Hogg, Halfpenny or any other full back in the Northern Hemisphere. That does not in itself make him a vastly inferior player rather means he would have had extreme competition for a NZ place which obviously was part of the reason he left NZ to move north in the first place.

    For me, Liam Williams is the best FB option available to the Lions and, even though NZ have loads of options, they cannot play them all anyway


  • #1754
    molloyjh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,772 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    Ah ok, I didn't realize that. No need to be snippy.

    I'm still surprised that Ringrose didn't get a place.

    It's still early days for Ringrose. He started slow in the 6Ns but grew into it really well. He's still a little on the small side as well. He has a great future ahead of him but this Lions tour probably comes a year too early for him.


  • #1755
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,265 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Maybe someone here can explain this one to me. Is Moriarty really that versatile? I mean sure he's played with different numbers on his back, but does how he play really vary that much with each positional change? For me Heaslips biggest asset is the thing some here are saying he doesn't have; versatility. He can change his game depending on whats required despite the fact that the number on his back doesn't change. So how is Moriarty more versatile a player in practice?

    Obviously this is all academic given Healsips injury, it's just one of those ones that has me confused.

    Well Moriarty can play across the back row and Heaslip cannot. There's not much more to it than that. I'm sure Vunipola can be told to go out and be a ground hog or whatever but at the end of the day like Heaslip he's a number 8 as evidenced by the fact he never plays anywhere else.


  • #1756
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,830 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Nah, only flashes of what he may be capable of. More hype than substance at the minute, at this level anyway.
    Depends on what you're expecting.


  • #1757
    molloyjh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,772 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    awec wrote: »
    Well Moriarty can play across the back row and Heaslip cannot. There's not much more to it than that.

    But what exactly does that mean? Does that mean he plays the same way with different numbers on his back, does he vary his game substantially in each position? What? The above is a nothing point by itself I'm afraid. Jack Conan plays 6 and 8 for example, but he's nowhere near as versatile a player as Heaslip is who only ever plays 8.


  • #1758
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,830 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    awec wrote: »
    I swear if Gatland picks Henshaw and Payne in midfield the tiny shred of respect I have for him will evaporate instantly and he'll come close to joining Lord Nucifora on my list of people who are not to be trusted and must be actively opposed in all they do.
    Or you'll have been proven wrong. Again. :pac:


  • #1759
    Leslie91
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,017 ✭✭✭Leslie91


    Delighted Hartley and Roberts not going.... at least not yet.

    Really surprised Launchbury missed out... I'd have him over Lawes anyway. Gray probably unlucky too. Having said that almost every 2nd row picked can play at 6 too and those 2 cannot/should not.

    Taking 41 means the likes of Moriarty/Faletau & Te'o/Joseph made it not to mention Tommy Seymour (token Scot after Hogg).

    Would have liked to have seen Ringrose go over any of Joseph, Seymour, Te'o and Davies.


  • #1760
    thomond2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    SOB is lucky to be going. Someone like Watson could have gotten in there instead.

    *runs*


  • #1761
    Leslie91
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,017 ✭✭✭Leslie91


    No doubt 1 or more of the lads waiting by the phone eg. Launchbury, Ringrose, Gray, Care, Healy, Russell will get injured before season end and now never get picked to rep the 2017 Lions. That will be hard for these lads.


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  • #1762
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Maybe for you. A lot of others think he was good and Gatland singled him out as unlucky not to be travelling.

    If someone like Joseph or Payne get hurt I'd say we'll see him.

    We must appreciate Gatland & Co. have spent the last 12 months+ deciding on who makes it, a variety of factors determine who does/n't go. They've put the time in. A different coach such as McGeechan would have probably have picked some different players. The best player for each position may or may not travel, because the whole process is subjective.


  • #1763
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,196 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    GymJim wrote: »
    Don't get this point, of course he wouldn't but neither would Earls, Zebo, Kearney, Hogg, Halfpenny or any other full back in the Northern Hemisphere. That does not in itself make him a vastly inferior player rather means he would have had extreme competition for a NZ place which obviously was part of the reason he left NZ to move north in the first place.

    For me, Liam Williams is the best FB option available to the Lions and, even though NZ have loads of options, they cannot play them all anyway

    It was a direct response to the suggestion that Payne would get in the NZ squad. What's not to understand?


  • #1764
    Buer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    awec wrote: »
    I'm sure Vunipola can be told to go out and be a ground hog or whatever but at the end of the day like Heaslip he's a number 8 as evidenced by the fact he never plays anywhere else.

    Just to be awkward....BV has a decent few games at flanker under his belt.


  • #1765
    thomond2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Wasps have gone on twitter to whine about Launchbury's non-selection. Yeesh.


  • #1766
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 43,704 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    CMOTDibbler wrote: »
    Depends on what you're expecting.

    more of this?

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102722588&postcount=5958


  • #1767
    Buer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    SOB is lucky to be going. Someone like Watson could have gotten in there instead.

    *runs*

    The fact that he's going and Launchbury is at home says to me that the ECC games absolutely do have an influence. Toner was already done and dusted at that point but completely outplayed Launchbury. That had to have an impact on his hopes.

    Similarly, SOB completely dominated Haskell and Hughes after a patchy 6N.


  • #1768
    Brewster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭Brewster


    pickarooney wrote: »
    Payne wouldn't get near a squad with Ben Smith, Nehe Milner Skudder, Damien McKenzie, Israel Dagg and Jordie Barrett to choose from at FB.

    We are talking about best squad in the world obviously, let's see how Payne goes down there. The point I was making is that Payne wouldn't look out of place in any squad in the world, I stand by this. Some people in Ireland under rate the guy hugely. Obviously Earls and Payne play in different positions, but I can't fathom how people would think Earls is 'pound for pound' a better player. I don't care what the opta stats say, Payne is a step above in terms of all round ability. Again, this is not a slight on Earls, who is a fantastic player.


  • #1769
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    SOB is lucky to be going. Someone like Watson could have gotten in there instead.

    *runs*

    SOB is probably lucky and might be in the same category as Faletau or North in proven class outweighing recent form.


  • #1770
    irishman86
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭irishman86


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Payne is categorically a better player than Earls

    Then you backed it up with this follow up point, take that haters :eek:


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  • #1771
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    molloyjh wrote: »
    awec wrote: »
    Well Moriarty can play across the back row and Heaslip cannot. There's not much more to it than that.

    But what exactly does that mean? Does that mean he plays the same way with different numbers on his back, does he vary his game substantially in each position? What? The above is a nothing point by itself I'm afraid. Jack Conan plays 6 and 8 for example, but he's nowhere near as versatile a player as Heaslip is who only ever plays 8.

    But Jack Conan only plays at 6 because he can't get past Heaslip at 8. In a lot of these cases their versatility is simply a case of not being the first choice in the primary position but potentially offering more than the first choice in another. Besides there are plenty of 6 options available - I doubt that's what would put him ahead of heaslip.

    Of course this is a somewhat pointless hypothetical argument. The best kind!


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