Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

Former Former

AWJ and Halfpenny join the exclusive ranks of players to go on three tours.

Webbs

thomond2006 wrote: »

They don't really have many standout individuals really. I would have brought Jonny Gray though.

By Position:

Rory Best, Jamie George, Ken Owens
Mako Vunipola, Jack McGrath, Joe Marler
Dan Cole, Tadhg Furlong, Kyle Sinckler,
Iain Henderson, Maro Itoje, Alun Wyn Jones, George Kruis Courtney Lawes
CJ Stander, Sam Warburton, Justin Tipuric, Sean O'Brien, Peter O'Mahony
Taulupe Faletau, Billy Vunipola, Ross Moriarty

Rhys Webb, Ben Youngs, Conor Murray
Dan Biggar, Jonathan Sexton
Jonathan Davies, Owen Farrell, Robbie Henshaw, Jonathan Joseph, Jared Payne, Ben Te'o
George North, Jack Nowell, Tommy Seymour, Anthony Watson, Liam Williams, Elliot Daly
Stuart Hogg, Leigh Halfpenny

Recent article I read said how many points NZ score in last quarter when changes are made from the bench.
Its one area the Lions will look to compete, in that the 'finishers' as Eddie Jones now calls them will arguably have to be more physical than those who start. Have to get rid the idea of the bench somehow being second to the starters.

Its why I think he has gone for the mobile powerful guys like Henderson and Itoje over Launchbury who is more grunt. The likes of Te'o, Henshaw to maybe come of the bench.

I also think depending on blend that it could be an exciting back 3.

errlloyd

swiwi_ wrote: »

Not really. The only unlucky player imo is Gray J, and possibly Laidlaw. Everyone loves the Scots but they were more the sum of their parts than too many outstanding individuals - their pack was average, and their halves too deep all tournament.

I don't think they have anyone that demanded inclusion who wasn't - but they do have players who were nip and tuck with some of the weirder shouts.

Well I think Maitland could have been in with a shout. Ultimately he brought Nowell, Daly and Watson - 3 English wingers who have all been behind May very recently. For me Nowell would have lost out there.

Fagerson could surely feel slightly aggrieved at behind a guy who has never started an international rugby match. Watson too, could probably ask why Moriarty is being brought as a third number 8.

If 11 Welsh players are considered better than the sum of the parts, then why are we bringing their last two coaches - and why are the club teams they come from so crap!

ucd.1985

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Jared Payne, Ben Te'o, Dylan Hartley

Hartley not travelling

Buer

kilns wrote: »

I wonder if Heaslip was fit would he have gone instead of Moriarty, I suspect so
I think Full Back is a very weak area too, Halpenny is not the player he was and it was a Welsh call to pick him and I would not trust Hogg against NZ defensively.  I could see Payne starting there by the 2nd test

Anthony Watson plays a large chunk of his rugby at 15 so I imagine he'll start there at least once. Liam Williams is also a top quality full back.

Teferi

I like that Jared Payne pick. Pretty unexpected and underrated by everyone who isn't Irish. Could give everyone a nice surprise.

sydthebeat

thomond2006 wrote: »

They don't really have many standout individuals really. I would have brought Jonny Gray though.

By Position:

Rory Best, Jamie George, Ken Owens
Mako Vunipola, Jack McGrath, Joe Marler
Dan Cole, Tadhg Furlong, Kyle Sinckler,
Iain Henderson, Maro Itoje, Alun Wyn Jones, George Kruis, Courtney Lawes
CJ Stander, Sam Warburton, Justin Tipuric, Sean O'Brien, Peter O'Mahony
Taulupe Faletau, Billy Vunipola, Ross Moriarty

Rhys Webb, Ben Youngs, Conor Murray
Dan Biggar, Jonathan Sexton
Jonathan Davies, Owen Farrell, Robbie Henshaw, Jonathan Joseph, Jared Payne, Ben Te'o
George North, Jack Nowell, Tommy Seymour, Anthony Watson, Liam Williams, Elliot Daly
Stuart Hogg, Leigh Halfpenny

looking at the group like that, there are certain positions in which 1 injury will mean crisis

IMO theres a significant gap between:
Furlong and the alternatives
Sexton to biggar (intersting to see if sexton got injured would farrell step straight in at 10?)
Farrell at 12 to the other options (different game plan required)
Probably AWJ at 5, itoje at 4.... big drop off to the alternative second row.

on a plus side, plenty of line out options from 4 - 8

Dave_The_Sheep

ucd.1985 wrote: »

Who?

Payne, Te'o, Mako Vunipola.

Buer

errlloyd wrote: »

Fagerson could surely feel slightly aggrieved at behind a guy who has never started an international rugby match. Watson too, could probably ask why Moriarty is being brought as a third number 8.

Moriarty can play across the back row. Played all 3 tests against NZ last summer at blindside.

thomond2006

McGrath, George, Furlong, Itoje, AWJ, SOB, Warburton, Vunipola,
Murray, Sexton, Watson, Farrell, Henshaw, Williams, Hogg

Owens, Vunipola, Cole, Henderson, Stander, Webb, Daly, Seymour

I don't see a need for Halfpenny in the 23 with Farrell as the goalkicker and Williams as cover. Hogg is too good offensively to leave him out. There's not much between the wingers so Seymour gets on the bench as another Scot! There's serious impact from that bench.

Rightwing

Best is lucky to travel. Far too injury prone and very average at times, but I like him so pleased for him.

Scots can't complain much, we saw what Eng did to them, I would have J Gray in but that's it.

Former Former

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Jared Payne, Ben Te'o, Dylan Hartley

Hartley isn't travelling.

So that's two Kiwis, making it look like yer man is wrong, but he's clearly counting Seymour as American rather than Scottish, thus two Kiwis vs one Scot and he's right after all.

Complex.

Subpopulus

Former Former wrote: »

AWJ and Halfpenny join the exclusive ranks of players to go on three tours.

And I can easily see Halfpenny making a fourth... He's still only 28

irishman86

Subpopulus wrote: »

And I can easily see Halfpenny making a fourth... He's still only 28

Christ I thought he was at least 33 by now.

SmithySeller

Don't see anything upsetting here. J Gray should feel upset. From an Irish perspective, none should feel hard done by at all and some should feel a little lucky, probably because they are quite versatile.

Brewster

Teferi wrote: »

I like that Jared Payne pick. Pretty unexpected and underrated by everyone who isn't Irish. Could give everyone a nice surprise.

I couldn't understand the lack of speculation about Payne since he came back in for England game. I have said on these boards many times that he is one of the finest players in the country, delighted for him. Can cover 13 and 15, a phenomenal defender; just an all round great player. He is simply a better player than the Zebo or Earls.

Few surprises in squad, always will be. No Joe L is a shock.

Delighted for Bestie, obviously was harshly left out four years ago, he is there now on merit and he will have a great tour. Our back rows picked themselves, Heaslip injury won't have helped his cause.

Bazzo

razorblunt wrote: »

The Scots here are seething at the prospect of only 1/2 players selected (presuming Hogg and Seymour), I've agreed with them that you can build a strong case for Jonnie of the Grays, but Richie the Elder doesn't deserve to be on that plane at all. Frankly he's lucky to be picked by Scotland as a starter. In fairness it's the barstoolers that are shouting for Richie, the more 'in the know fans' think Watson and Brown should also go.

Nel would have been a lock in if it weren't for the untimely neck injury.

I know this is quite an old post at this stage but just wading through them now. Richie actually had a better 6n than his younger brother and has come back in to a decent run of form. I still think Jonny is the better player but it's understandable why people might be talking about Richie.

Erik Shin

Nothing to be overly excited about, or overly shocked at... Just a bit meh....Which i think will be all our feelings by the tours end

mistdub

Tell me if I'm mad, but i think Payne's selection means Gatland is strongly considering him as a starting 13. Probably the only 13 across the home nations that you could trust to do a defensive job againts the ABs, as he showed in Novemeber

Brewster

mistdub wrote: »

Tell me if I'm mad, but i think Payne's selection means Gatland is strongly considering him as a starting 13. Probably the only 13 across the home nations that you could trust to do a defensive job againts the ABs, as he showed in Novemeber

Not mad at all.....

carltonleon

Just listening to Gatland live on Talksport and he said that both Ringrose and Launchbury were very unlucky not to make it.

Rightwing

mistdub wrote: »

Tell me if I'm mad, but i think Payne's selection means Gatland is strongly considering him as a starting 13. Probably the only 13 across the home nations that you could trust to do a defensive job againts the ABs, as he showed in Novemeber

He's a Gatland type of player, big, strong game lad.

7oakse

Gutted for Ringrose. Unlikely to be a starter but a much better option than JJ. 
Everyone is talking about JJ as this potent try scorer. He's scored 16 tries in 33 tests. 
3 v. a Scotland team that were playing touch 
5 v. Italy in the 2016 & 2017 6 nations 
2 v. Fiji. 
I know you can only play what is in front of you but he flatters to deceive. Ringrose completely outplayed him in the 6N's.

TomsOnTheRoof

Brewster wrote: »

I couldn't understand the lack of speculation about Payne since he came back in for England game. I have said on these boards many times that he is one of the finest players in the country, delighted for him. Can cover 13 and 15, a phenomenal defender; just an all round great player. He is simply a better player than the Zebo or Earls.

Few surprises in squad, always will be. No Joe L is a shock.

Delighted for Bestie, obviously was harshly left out four years ago, he is there now on merit and he will have a great tour. Our back rows picked themselves, Heaslip injury won't have helped his cause.

Nonsense. Earls is Ireland's fourth highest try scorer of all time with one of our best try to game ratios. Payne has been picked as a centre I would think. He suits Gatland's gameplan down to a tee. Strong defender and won't lose the ball in contact.

Subpopulus

irishman86 wrote: »

Christ I thought he was at least 33 by now.

He got his break very young. Played for Wales at 19. I can see him hitting 130+ test caps if he can keep going at his current rate.

Larbre34

Ringrose's time will come, last thing he needs at this stage of his development is a pasting off some Kiwi regional failed all-black type or a bunch of demoralising midweek losses.

Overall I think Gatland has found a good balance, not too Welsh favouristic. Delighted he left Hartley at home.

Also, itll be a very long standby list, the attrition could be horrific. As Sean Fitz has said, NZ arent after a 3-0 win, theyre after a 10-0 win

D14Rugby

These are the guys I'd consider a bit lucky to be picked. And why.
Mako Vunipola, Joe Marler, Dan Cole, Kyle Sinckler, (all four of these are prone to giving away stupid penalties and against the all blacks you can't have that. Would definitely have had healy over marler but I guess the other three get in on no body really behind them bar maybe Ryan but he's still new to the international scene.)
Iain Henderson, Alun Wyn Jones, Courtney Lawes (I can see why Henderson was picked but would have launchbury and j gray over the other two, maybe r gray over Henderson too bit touch and go on that though)
Sam Warburton, Justin Tipuric, Billy Vunipola, Ross Moriarty (Moriarty was alright in the 6 Nations but I guess he's there down to doubts over Heaslip's fitness. There other 3 will do I guess for midweek matches, no idea how Warburton got the captaincy sexton, farrell, Murray, best, all better options for it )

Dan Biggar (finn Russell should be here instead)
Jonathan Davies, Jared Payne, Ben Te'o (I have no idea how any of these 3 made it unless Payne is being brought as a full back. Huw Jones unlucky to miss out here as is Ringrose who had an far better six nations than jd or te'o)
George North, Tommy Seymour, (North has been poor for a while, Seymour will do for midweeks I guess. Maitland, may and zebo unlucky here)
Leigh Halfpenny (been poor pretty much since the last tour, again zebo unlucky)

Kevski

Eh...where's Nagle?

Brewster

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

Nonsense. Earls is Ireland's fourth highest try scorer of all time with one of our best try to game ratios. Payne has been picked as a centre I would think. He suits Gatland's gameplan down to a tee. Strong defender and won't lose the ball in contact.

Comparing Earls Ireland try scoring record to Payne's is not a runner, Payne only became irish qualified a few years ago! It is hard to compare players in different positions, but when all attributes are considered, Payne is a better fullback/centre than Earls is a winger. It is easier to compare Payne to Zebo in a straight fullback v fullback battle, and Payne is just a classier player. Zebo is a great player, Payne I believe borders the world class category in that he would get in to any squad in the world, including NZ albeit with Ben Smith ahead of him, who himself is probably the best fullback in the world...

bilston

D14Rugby wrote: »

These are the guys I'd consider a bit lucky to be picked. And why.
Mako Vunipola, Joe Marler, Dan Cole, Kyle Sinckler, (all four of these are prone to giving away stupid penalties and against the all blacks you can't have that. Would definitely have had healy over marler but I guess the other three get in on no body really behind them bar maybe Ryan but he's still new to the international scene.)
Iain Henderson, Alun Wyn Jones, Courtney Lawes (I can see why Henderson was picked but would have launchbury and j gray over the other two, maybe r gray over Henderson too bit touch and go on that though)
Sam Warburton, Justin Tipuric, Billy Vunipola, Ross Moriarty (Moriarty was alright in the 6 Nations but I guess he's there down to doubts over Heaslip's fitness. There other 3 will do I guess for midweek matches, no idea how Warburton got the captaincy sexton, farrell, Murray, best, all better options for it )

Dan Biggar (finn Russell should be here instead)
Jonathan Davies, Jared Payne, Ben Te'o (I have no idea how any of these 3 made it unless Payne is being brought as a full back. Huw Jones unlucky to miss out here as is Ringrose who had an far better six nations than jd or te'o)
George North, Tommy Seymour, (North has been poor for a while, Seymour will do for midweeks I guess. Maitland, may and zebo unlucky here)
Leigh Halfpenny (been poor pretty much since the last tour, again zebo unlucky)

That's half the squad!