Louise O Neill on rape culture.

mzungu · 23-03-2017 12:36am

TheDavester wrote: »

Is Mullaley finally seeing some things are finally ridiculous

That was a deleted post from a re-reg account that has since been banned.

please helpThank YOU · 23-03-2017 2:03am

Pat Kenny Tonight on tv3 you can watch it on 3 player all about. our rape culture in Ireland .people here could watch it . more of a platform to discuss Ireland and its rape culture 3 player Wednesday 22th march tv3 10.00pm

RabbleRouser2k · 23-03-2017 2:33am

I do remember the former DG of RTE was fired because he was harassing women-this was back in the day when Nuala Carey was first hired (albeit TV3 was just starting out-so coverage was sparce bar the papers). RTE had taken on a number of young, good looking people-Pamela Flood, a few male presenters who also dabbled in modelling, a number of former underwear models (not a joke), Nuala Carey and co (I'm not targeting her btw, this was just what happened at the time, I'm using her as a point of reference).

Well, the claim made, at the time, was that RTE were trying to compete with TV3 by bringing these folks in (they also sacked a number of other employees, also women, such as Joan Blackburn, and Elaine Cusack (Elaine was brought back, by popular demand, Joan brought a case to court, and won, for unfair dismissal)).

Well, it turns out that the DG (Director General) was quite a creep. He would make passes at the ladies, and be a general scumbag. RTE carried out an investigation, even going so far as undercover person wearing a wire, and found out that yes, he was a scumbag.
He was fired. Folks don't hear from him anymore. (Come to think of it, I think the allegations probably harmed the presenter's careers too-much of the staff slowly petered out-maybe they were seen as 'hired for looks' not 'hired for talent'.)

Guys careers can be ruined by accusations of impropriety and accosting women. To say such a thing is tripe. And that's what LoN does-but fame never seems to harm a person's career.
Look at Schumer and Dunham-these are two ladies who continually 'appropriate' black culture-and steal jokes from better comdiens/ comediennes.

I wouldn't listen to the Womens Council either-they were folks who said a woman is only a woman if she has a uterus-never mind those who were born without/ had a hysterectomy, 'don't count as women'.

Outlaw Pete · 23-03-2017 3:08am

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

Pat Kenny Tonight on tv3 you can watch it on 3 player all about. our rape culture in Ireland .people here could watch it . more of a platform to discuss Ireland and its rape culture 3 player Wednesday 22th march tv3 10.00pm

Just watching this now, cheers. I see though that it starts off with the 'Cup of Tea' consent analogy video.

Here's a link to it:

http://www.tv3.ie/3player/show/1032/0/Pat-Kenny-Tonight

seanvanseanvan · 23-03-2017 3:47am

Shower of charlatans are TV3, they made me watch the 4 adverts and then playback error and asked me reload page so I did, 4 more adverts and playback error. Gangsters!!!!

Outlaw Pete · 23-03-2017 3:52am

seanvanseanvan wrote: »

Shower of charlatans are TV3, they made me watch the 4 adverts and then playback error and asked me reload page so I did, 4 more adverts and playback error. Gangsters!!!!

Edge is the only browser that works for me with the 3Player.

please helpThank YOU · 23-03-2017 4:05am

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Just watching this now, cheers. I see though that it starts off with the 'Cup of Tea' consent analogy video.

Here's a link to it:

http://www.tv3.ie/3player/show/1032/0/Pat-Kenny-Tonight

Just talking to a friend of mine in Kansas and he said all this Louise o Neill rape culture it is pure American Feminist stuff . but very dangerous thinking around the consent and around alcohol .should Women not go to pubs and be drinking alcohol around men ? . and that men should only meet women in alcohol free zones to be safe from women saying the raped them as the had sum alcohol.? the new laws come into effect in Ireland very soon around consent and alcohol this a very dangerous area now for all men drinking alcohol in pubs and clubs etc.

RabbleRouser2k · 23-03-2017 5:06am

I may be more optimisitic than others-but I most definitely did not see the same level of negativity or 'man' blaming that others did. I do believe there was not enough of a discussion on 'women raping men'. That was sort of brushed aside, and that did get annoying, tbh.
But it did go into discussion on gay rape, lesbian rape and so on. As well as the discussion on 'orgies'.

py2006 · 23-03-2017 12:05pm

JRant wrote: »

The National Women's Council of Ireland should be ashamed of themselves for retweeting this nonsense

https://twitter.com/nwci/status/843058871140794369

Wow, I am certainly not surprised that Louise (friend to all men) O'Neill would believe and write that. A little surprised that the National Womens Council of Ireland would too! Shame on them!

peking97 · 23-03-2017 12:44pm

Unbelieveable stuff!
It's getting to the stage where you'd need to have your solicitor with you before you can have sexual relations with your own wife!

HamsterFace · 23-03-2017 1:14pm

I would like to ask the so question of the council, and Louise and others who seem to hold the same opinion, do you think the presumption of innocence and the burden of proof should be removed when there are allegations of sexual assault against a woman by a man?

And, if so, how would you reconcile that with the removing of constitutional rights from men such as right to due process, right to a good name, protection from false imprisonment etc (notwithstanding the astronomical changes required to the constitution, or as Louis referred to it as the "laws that need to change" to make it easier to convict)

I have no doubt that the innocent men, who would most likely be a minority not that that should matter, would be seen as collateral damage.

There's no doubt about it, sexual assault and rape trials should be made as easy as possible for the victims, and victims should feel 100% comfortable coming forward, but depriving another human of their liberty without all of the constitutional safeguards of a western democracy is abhorrent to the notion of civilisation and natural justice.

Widdershins · 23-03-2017 2:18pm

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

Just talking to a friend of mine in Kansas and he said all this Louise o Neill rape culture it is pure American Feminist stuff . but very dangerous thinking around the consent and around alcohol .should Women not go to pubs and be drinking alcohol around men ? . and that men should only meet women in alcohol free zones to be safe from women saying the raped them as the had sum alcohol.? the new laws come into effect in Ireland very soon around consent and alcohol this a very dangerous area now for all men drinking alcohol in pubs and clubs etc.

What will the new law actually mean?

red ears · 23-03-2017 2:58pm

HamsterFace wrote: »

I would like to ask the so question of the council, and Louise and others who seem to hold the same opinion, do you think the presumption of innocence and the burden of proof should be removed when there are allegations of sexual assault against a woman by a man?

And, if so, how would you reconcile that with the removing of constitutional rights from men such as right to due process, right to a good name, protection from false imprisonment etc (notwithstanding the astronomical changes required to the constitution, or as Louis referred to it as the "laws that need to change" to make it easier to convict)

I have no doubt that the innocent men, who would most likely be a minority not that that should matter, would be seen as collateral damage.

I think if you asked Louise she would say if the odd innocent man being convicted was the price to pay for convicting far more actual rapists she would have absolutely no problem with that. People like her are a danger to innocent men.

please helpThank YOU · 23-03-2017 4:46pm

py2006 wrote: »

Wow, I am certainly not surprised that Louise (friend to all men) O'Neill would believe and write that. A little surprised that the National Womens Council of Ireland would too! Shame on them!

Just read the link you put up.. from the Womens council lreland . Louise o Neill why the idea that sexual assault allegations can ruin a Mans career is a myth Womens council Ireland?????:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: . this is a insult to all victims of the crimes of all type of false accusations. and people who took there own lives by COMMITTING SUICIDE . .How many people have hanged themselves.? COMMITTED SUICIDE Jumping into rivers over false rape accusations.? and all other type of false accusations how many people Men /Women have taken there lives? an the Womens council Ireland promotes This on there website.:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

retro:electro · 23-03-2017 5:59pm

She'd want to have a look at the sentence disparity and the complete gender bias in sentencing between male and female teacher sexual offenders.
Surely the disparity and lenience towards women is contributing to rape culture? Or is the man somehow to blame for that as well?

please helpThank YOU · 23-03-2017 7:10pm

Widdershins wrote: »

What will the new law actually mean?

The new laws coming in are around
sexual consent and alcohol . this give more clarity in law so basically your having a few beers in a pub our nite club you meet a women/wife/girlfriend she has a few beers later on that nite you have Sexual Intercourse. this is now rape as the women can not give you consent with alcohol consumed. this like 1920s alcohol prohibition but the other way around you can not have Sexual Intercourse with your wife/girlfriend with a alcohol as you will be classed as a rapist from now on.

please helpThank YOU · 23-03-2017 7:39pm

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

The new laws coming in are around
sexual consent and alcohol . this give more clarity in law so basically your having a few beers in a pub our nite club you meet a women she has a few beers later on that nite you have Sexual Intercourse. this is now rape as the women can not give you consent with alcohol consumed.

This new Law around alcohol is very Dangerous to all Men . so who is Brings this New law in minister Frances Fitzgerald who is a Women. and who will this new law effect the most Man/Men of Ireland . So I am out in the pub/nightclub having a few beers with my wife/girlfriend and we have Sexual Intercourse later on that night this is now rape in the eyes of the law as she my wife/girlfriend can not give me consent for sexual intercourse as she has taken alcohol . . also Minister Frances Fitzgerald new sex bill in 2015 makes it a crime to pay prostitutes services. so with this new law you meet a prostitute bring her back to your luxury hotel have a bottle of the best champagne have sexual intercourse you are now a rapist in the eyes of this new law being clarified. plus you committed two crimes one you went with prostitute and the second you had sexual intercourse with a prostitute who has had consumed alcohol your are now a rapist in the eyes of law.

RabbleRouser2k · 24-03-2017 1:13am

Guys this is a bit of a disparity-completely. A few drinks is fine, absolutely-like, have a few beers, go on a date, ask her or him back to yours...that's no problem. The law will not be used or apply there. Lowered inhibitions vs 'cannot even spell their own name' are two different things.

On the other hand, if the person is so drunk they can barely string a few sentences together...well, that is what the law will cover. Even those who should have been more biased on the Pat Kenny chat stated it just underlines what is already there. The problem arose, before, when it came to consent-like, people would look at the 'drunk' person-and say 'okay, did they have so much alcohol in them that they couldn't even sign their name...then if so, sex with them was rape'.

RabbleRouser2k · 24-03-2017 1:22am

anna080 wrote: »

She'd want to have a look at the sentence disparity and the complete gender bias in sentencing between male and female teacher sexual offenders.
Surely the disparity and lenience towards women is contributing to rape culture? Or is the man somehow to blame for that as well?

True-look at Desperate Housewives. The first season's main storyline involved a woman seducing a minor-but because she was 'hot' it didn't raise eyebrows. And it was definitely creepy in many ways.
Ditto game of thrones-a minor has sex with a hot woman in her 30s, again, nothing said-tho the 'feminists' cried 'women suffer far worse' in that show. Bull.

On the other hand-Coronation street features a storyline involving an adult seducing a teenaged girl (who's obviously in her 20s)-and that's meant to be scandalous...but reverse the genders, and nobody would blink an eye. It would be played as 'romantic', 'pure' etc.

Hell, look at the independent-some crazy married teacher, having a relationship with a minor, was photographed 'smiling' as her photo was taken. And there is so much evidence now, she's been suspended from her job-we're seeing a greater deal of women sexual predators in news outlets-but I would argue they were always there, just not reported.
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/north-america/married-teacher-smiles-in-mugshot-after-being-arrested-for-allegedly-having-sex-with-a-student-35557624.html

TheDavester · 24-03-2017 1:41am

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Guys this is a bit of a disparity-completely. A few drinks is fine, absolutely-like, have a few beers, go on a date, ask her or him back to yours...that's no problem. The law will not be used or apply there. Lowered inhibitions vs 'cannot even spell their own name' are two different things.

On the other hand, if the person is so drunk they can barely string a few sentences together...well, that is what the law will cover. Even those who should have been more biased on the Pat Kenny chat stated it just underlines what is already there. The problem arose, before, when it came to consent-like, people would look at the 'drunk' person-and say 'okay, did they have so much alcohol in them that they couldn't even sign their name...then if so, sex with them was rape'.

That's what I think will happen, its basically if one of the parties is completely out of it ,,,,not two go home after a couple ...Once it doesn't go into, one changes their mind afterwards (sorta like the RMC article) or that Niall Boylan show (I think it was) example

RabbleRouser2k · 24-03-2017 1:47am

TheDavester wrote: »

That's what I think will happen, its basically if one of the parties is completely out of it ,,,,not two go home after a couple ...Once it doesn't go into, one changes their mind afterwards (sorta like the RMC article) or that Niall Boylan show (I think it was) example

I'm familiar with the RMC thing-what was the Niall Boylan show?

TheDavester · 24-03-2017 1:50am

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

I'm familiar with the RMC thing-what was the Niall Boylan show?

I believe (think it was his show - might be something else) a girl called in to a show, went home with a fella, did the business, then I believe her husband/boyfriend found out amd then cried rape (I know these shows are to be taken with a grain of salt - but it wouldn't surprise me some would try this act if their partner found out)

hatrickpatrick · 24-03-2017 1:12pm

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

As many have probably heard, there has been another leak of images of female celebrities-I wonder if LoN and co will find a way to tie this into the 'rape culture' myth-though many have remained quiet on the subject, at the moment.

I know the last time folks were decrying it as 'ownership of women's bodies'...never mind that those are images, not 'actual' bodies.

The victim in this case is Emma Watson - the same person who has addressed the UN on the need for internet censorship and cyberpolicing on the grounds of misogyny. Whoever did this, as well as being a creepy asshole, is also an unimaginable idiot for giving fuel to that ideology. It's like shooting a gun control advocate.

blue note · 24-03-2017 1:29pm

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Guys this is a bit of a disparity-completely. A few drinks is fine, absolutely-like, have a few beers, go on a date, ask her or him back to yours...that's no problem. The law will not be used or apply there. Lowered inhibitions vs 'cannot even spell their own name' are two different things.

On the other hand, if the person is so drunk they can barely string a few sentences together...well, that is what the law will cover. Even those who should have been more biased on the Pat Kenny chat stated it just underlines what is already there. The problem arose, before, when it came to consent-like, people would look at the 'drunk' person-and say 'okay, did they have so much alcohol in them that they couldn't even sign their name...then if so, sex with them was rape'.

Lets be honest - you've phrased this as if the law or the implementation of it will be gender neutral. We all know it won't. Whether or not the woman was drunk beyond being able to give consent will decide whether or not it is rape. The man's level of drunkenness will not be a factor.

I fully agree that if someone is not able to give consent then it is rape. I would just like everyone to have the same rights and responsibilities on the issue.

RabbleRouser2k · 24-03-2017 3:42pm

blue note wrote: »

Lets be honest - you've phrased this as if the law or the implementation of it will be gender neutral. We all know it won't. Whether or not the woman was drunk beyond being able to give consent will decide whether or not it is rape. The man's level of drunkenness will not be a factor.

I fully agree that if someone is not able to give consent then it is rape. I would just like everyone to have the same rights and responsibilities on the issue.

Oh guaranteed, I would argue it will very much require significant 'help' on the guy's part to prove he is innocent-and when I say help, I mean CCTV, eyewitness accounts, etc. We know it won't be gender neutral, sadly. And yeah, that is BS.But if one even raises an inkling of doubt in a jury, such as 'unable to'

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The victim in this case is Emma Watson - the same person who has addressed the UN on the need for internet censorship and cyberpolicing on the grounds of misogyny. Whoever did this, as well as being a creepy asshole, is also an unimaginable idiot for giving fuel to that ideology. It's like shooting a gun control advocate.

Oh most definitely-tho I did chuckle listening to her speech, from a few months back, with her overly enthusiastic 'America don't let me down-vote for a woman president'-then months later, Trump.

On a positive note-she just had 'clothed' images stolen-as in yeah, it's a physical hack, yes, images were taken-but no, nothing serious. On the other hand, the images of other women were far, far more explicit-and they had kept themselves to themselves-the stolen images are quite shocking, tbh.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/world/asia/us-soldiers-told-to-ignore-afghan-allies-abuse-of-boys.html

If LoN wants to go into talks about rape culture-she would be best served reading that disturbing article.

Essentially, during US the army's deployment in Afghanistan (it dates from 2013-2015, more than likely further back), US soldiers were told to 'ignore the screams' of children, the majority being young boys, coming from the Afghan camps-the screams were of the children being raped and abused.
It's not uncommon in Afghanistani 'lowlifes' to have a 'boy slave'-aka a boy who's sole service is to 'pleasure' a much older man. (And no, it's not Afghanistan I blame-just these scum, and scum exist everywhere).

The practise is illegal-but like moonshine and poitin, it's totally ignored.

Cannot imagine how painful that must have been for any soldier who was told they were helping...then told to 'carry on' as children were being raped in the camp besides them. (Some soldiers got angry, and threw punches-attacking those who they knew were carrying out the sexual abuse).

Bambi985 · 24-03-2017 3:53pm

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

I do remember the former DG of RTE was fired because he was harassing women-this was back in the day when Nuala Carey was first hired (albeit TV3 was just starting out-so coverage was sparce bar the papers). RTE had taken on a number of young, good looking people-Pamela Flood, a few male presenters who also dabbled in modelling, a number of former underwear models (not a joke), Nuala Carey and co (I'm not targeting her btw, this was just what happened at the time, I'm using her as a point of reference).

Well, the claim made, at the time, was that RTE were trying to compete with TV3 by bringing these folks in (they also sacked a number of other employees, also women, such as Joan Blackburn, and Elaine Cusack (Elaine was brought back, by popular demand, Joan brought a case to court, and won, for unfair dismissal)).

Well, it turns out that the DG (Director General) was quite a creep. He would make passes at the ladies, and be a general scumbag. RTE carried out an investigation, even going so far as undercover person wearing a wire, and found out that yes, he was a scumbag.
He was fired. Folks don't hear from him anymore. (Come to think of it, I think the allegations probably harmed the presenter's careers too-much of the staff slowly petered out-maybe they were seen as 'hired for looks' not 'hired for talent'.)

Guys careers can be ruined by accusations of impropriety and accosting women. To say such a thing is tripe. And that's what LoN does-but fame never seems to harm a person's career.
Look at Schumer and Dunham-these are two ladies who continually 'appropriate' black culture-and steal jokes from better comdiens/ comediennes.

To be honest IME creepy men in positions of power are rife. Certainly anywhere I'e worked there's been those men at the top who think nothing of hitting on or leering at the younger female employees, often interns etc.

Especially in newsrooms. my sister is a journalist and has told me some horror stories about senior management figures leering and passing crude remarks while watching showreels of potential female hires, those same guys sleeping with young reporters even though they're married, and tabloid newsrooms can be an absolute nightmare for the women that don't want to be demoted to the scrap heap of cat fashion shows and lifestyle features.

please helpThank YOU · 24-03-2017 4:23pm

Now since all the well educated Women/ladies now know the law has been made clearer. around the law around sexual consent and alcohol now all the Women of Ireland have been put on notice and are fully aware. So if the Women/wife/ long term girlfriend who has had taken alcohol and she wants sexual intercourse with a Husband /long term boyfriend . the law says she cant not give sexual consent what does a Man/Husband/ long term boyfriend do there and say the women who is hes long term girlfriend/wife who wants sexual intercourse with him?.

RabbleRouser2k · 24-03-2017 4:25pm

Bambi985 wrote: »

To be honest IME creepy men in positions of power are rife. Certainly anywhere I'e worked there's been those men at the top who think nothing of hitting on or leering at the younger female employees, often interns etc.

Especially in newsrooms. my sister is a journalist and has told me some horror stories about senior management figures leering and passing crude remarks while watching showreels of potential female hires, those same guys sleeping with young reporters even though they're married, and tabloid newsrooms can be an absolute nightmare for the women that don't want to be demoted to the scrap heap of cat fashion shows and lifestyle features.

Oh yeah-even in college I met the 'creepy' fellows-like, seriously creepy. One was dating a student, despite him A) being her lecturer,

being in a relationship, C) old enough to be her dad and D) being told to stop by her parents. Conflict of interest and all that. (Funnily enough, he had ALOT of female admirers-in the teenage category. I was jealous, if I'm honest-many of em were hawt).

In short-Oh I well believe it-trust me. When it comes to positions of power, certain traits tend to get you to that position-but sometimes, there are 'additional' elements to those figures-the creepy kind of element. (not always, just sometimes-othertimes they are a 'take no crap' kind of person)-I've known some idiots who for some bizarre reason seem to think they are 'hot'-and yet give em advise-like 'that software program won't work on a pc, or a mac'-and they are oblivious...until tech support/ they try it, and discover that yeah-it's not possible (and said software program will cost a couple of grand, easy).

On the other hand-I've heard stories of things like 'got a degree in journalism, operating the teleprompter so some numpty without his/ her Leaving Cert can read the text'...and yeah, it's not uncommon.

I do know of one presenter, local radio station, who married a total douchebag-despite ALL warnings from her friends/ family, that this guy was a db. Well, she gets pregnant shortly after, has the kid...then finds out he has a girlfriend and a new born...the were barely together over a year. (He was not in radio). She always got the usual 'boy, you're hot' on the radio comments-maybe she believed her hype, but some folks in radio don't tend to be too bright.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 24-03-2017 4:39pm

anna080 wrote: »

She'd want to have a look at the sentence disparity and the complete gender bias in sentencing between male and female teacher sexual offenders.
Surely the disparity and lenience towards women is contributing to rape culture? Or is the man somehow to blame for that as well?

Equal sentencing across the board for all crimes. To be served in similar conditions to men, no holiday camps like the Dochas Centre where prisoners are given the keys to their cells (known as 'rooms'). :rolleyes:

goose2005 · 24-03-2017 6:28pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Equal sentencing across the board for all crimes. To be served in similar conditions to men, no holiday camps like the Dochas Centre where prisoners are given the keys to their cells (known as 'rooms'). :rolleyes:

Actually the women's section of Limerick Prison is pretty unpleasant

Louise O Neill on rape culture.

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