RIP Martin McGuinness

emo72 · 22-03-2017 12:40AM

he achieved so much with the peace process. he brought an end to the violence i thought, growing up in the 80s, would never end. im so happy with what he achieved. he doesnt need some lads firing some bullets over his coffin. we've moved on from that surely?

22-03-2017 12:41AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

May just be a colour party and a flag ceremony too. Was at a funeral where that was done.

Sure there's always a colour party and a few old flags!
That's grand though, nothing illegal about that.
What they can't do is have people shooting weapons ( who knows who or what weapons) in a crowded area.
Although tbf, I'm sure the family & the PSNI, have already agreed a plan

Sufa · 22-03-2017 12:42AM

murpho999 wrote: »

Been looking at British print media's coverage and its main focus has been on McGuinness's role as IRA Commander rather than his role as Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland.

Comments section of Daily Mail is truly shocking, saying he is no loss and how disappointed they are in the Queen for sending a sympathy message.

Daily Mail Article

Same paper also has a shocking article about James McCleans tweet about Martin McGuinness.

What they fail to realise that it would be normal for a head of state to send a condolence message on the passing of a government minister which is exactly what Martin McGuinness was as Northern Ireland is a constituent part of the UK.

They are ignoring his achievement in bringing the IRA to a ceasefire and ultimately the Good Friday Agreement and subsequent peace.
Do they not realise in a war situation which NI was in for over 20 years that the options were to surrender, win militarily or negotiate a truce, which involved dealing with the enemies leaders which is exactly what happened in Northern Ireland.

What alternative did they want?

The truth is that the vast majority of British people have no idea what actually happened in NI during the troubles and think that the British only had a benign role. They see themselves as sole victims of IRA attacks whilst not knowing what happened in Northern Ireland.

I would also argue that the vast majority have no idea what's occuring in Northern Ireland politics today and I do wonder if this general apathy and ignorance will eventually lead to disillusionment among Unionists and Northern Ireland leaving the UK.

Why do people here keep doing this?

Whenever something happens, so often the first reaction of a great number of Irish people seems to be "quick, quick, what are the British going to be saying about this??!"

And when it quickly turns out that right leaning publications have a viewpoint that was always going to be at odds with theirs, they become a seething, smoldering ball of indignation.

It's always the posters with a very obvious dislike for the Brits who go hunting for articles to fume about which is all the more strange. Life is too short for it lads. They don't care one iota what we think here, maybe there are a few here who should follow that lead and lose the insecurities: let's focus on what we think, what our reactions to events are.

tomwaterford · 22-03-2017 12:44AM

bubblypop wrote: »

But who is going to shoot what weapons?.

Members of the ira??

FrancieBrady · 22-03-2017 12:45AM

bubblypop wrote: »

Sure there's always a colour party and a few old flags!
That's grand though, nothing illegal about that.
What they can't do is have people shooting weapons ( who knows who or what weapons) in a crowded area.
Although tbf, I'm sure the family & the PSNI, have already agreed a plan

It's symbolic, ever hear of blanks? They aren't trying to hit anyone. Do you think they fire live rounds when they fire gun salutes in London?

22-03-2017 12:47AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's symbolic, ever hear of blanks? They aren't trying to hit anyone. Do you think they fire live rounds when they fire gun salutes in London?

The regiments in London are not the IRA!!

FrancieBrady · 22-03-2017 12:47AM

Sufa wrote: »

Why do people here keep doing this?

Whenever something happens, so often the first reaction of a great number of Irish people seems to be "quick, quick, what are the British going to be saying about this??!"

And when it quickly turns out that right leaning publications have a viewpoint that was always going to be at odds with theirs, they become a seething, smoldering ball of indignation.

It's always the posters with a very obvious dislike for the Brits who go hunting for articles to fume about which is all the more strange. Life is too short for it lads. They don't care one iota what we think here, maybe there are a few here who should follow that lead and lose the insecurities: let's focus on what we think, what our reactions to events are.

Eh, you forgot to give us your reaction.

davycc · 22-03-2017 12:47AM

tomwaterford wrote: »

IMO they should

Not to upset anyone/anything....but to remember their commander

At the end of the day,the decision lies with his family and it should be respected

Agree totally
Yeah in my opinion they should too depending on the family wishes.

There are plenty of blanks that can be safely used in old legally held rifles if the will is there.

22-03-2017 12:48AM

tomwaterford wrote: »

Members of the ira??

And what weapons would they fire?
And are they licensed?
Pretty sure the PSNI won't want them doing it in crowded public areas

FrancieBrady · 22-03-2017 12:49AM

bubblypop wrote: »

The regiments in London are not the IRA!!

Never said they were. I was commenting on the sensationalist ' they can't fire weapons in a built up area'.

tomwaterford · 22-03-2017 12:50AM

bubblypop wrote: »

And what weapons would they fire?
And are they licensed?
Pretty sure the PSNI won't want them doing it in crowded public areas

Let them go into the bogside and stop it so??

22-03-2017 12:51AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Never said they were. I was commenting on the sensationalist ' they can't fire weapons in a built up area'.

Have you been to many republican funerals were volleys were fired? I've been at a few, and they didn't use blanks.

Martin McGuiness can have a very dignified republican funeral without the need for shots over the coffin.

22-03-2017 12:52AM

tomwaterford wrote: »

Let them go into the bogside and stop it so??

I'm sure the family and the police have agreed a plan

Junkyard Tom · 22-03-2017 12:53AM

tomwaterford wrote: »

Let them go into the bogside and stop it so??

That didn't work out too well in the past but I'm sure there are plenty of Jim Allister types who'd love nothing more.

FrancieBrady · 22-03-2017 12:54AM

bubblypop wrote: »

Have you been to many republican funerals were volleys were fired? I've been at a few, and they didn't use blanks.

Martin McGuiness can have a very dignified republican funeral without the need for shots over the coffin.

I have been at quite a few and both rounds have been used. It's symbolic, they are not trying to hit anyone. Calm the ham as they say.

22-03-2017 01:12AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have been at quite a few and both rounds have been used. It's symbolic, they are not trying to hit anyone. Calm the ham as they say.

But it's not the point whether they are trying to hit anyone!!
It's about unlawful weapons being used by unlicensed persons

Don't Chute! · 22-03-2017 06:33AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Will the IRA give him a volley of shots?

If only to have John Bruton rush into Dáil Éireann in tears, waving a copy of the newspaper with said picture, it would be worth it.

Hopefully, to make sure the scumbag is dead.

Noddyholder · 22-03-2017 07:30AM

The flag above Leinster House will be flown at half mast tomorrow as mark of respect.

The Lord Mayor of Dublin, Brendan Carr, will today open a book of condolence for Northern Ireland's former deputy first minister.

It will be open at the Mansion House today and tomorrow between 10am and 4pm.

Books of condolence have also been opened at the Guildhall in Derry and in Sinn Féin's offices in Dundalk and Drogheda.

From RTE.

FTA69 · 22-03-2017 07:38AM

Are ye mad? There hasn't been volleys of shots done for years, never mind for someone who was no longer a member of the IRA and was a senior Sinn Fein figure. Sure that was generally limited to people who died on active service anyway.

tomwaterford · 22-03-2017 07:42AM

FTA69 wrote: »

Are ye mad? There hasn't been volleys of shots done for years, never mind for someone who was no longer a member of the IRA and was a senior Sinn Fein figure. Sure that was generally limited to people who died on active service anyway.

January 2017

http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/watch-shots-fired-over-exprovo-notarantonios-coffin-ahead-of-belfast-funeral-35412122.html

Wheeliebin30 · 22-03-2017 07:49AM

I thought all weapons were decommissioned?

Am I missing something?

FTA69 · 22-03-2017 07:51AM

tomwaterford wrote: »

January 2017

http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/watch-shots-fired-over-exprovo-notarantonios-coffin-ahead-of-belfast-funeral-35412122.html

That was the Reals.

The Provisional IRA are supposed to be fully decommissioned and off the scene, them showing up blasting guns at the funeral of one of the most prominent people in SF might look a bit silly don't you think? It's not going to happen.

murpho999 · 22-03-2017 08:47AM

Sufa wrote: »

Why do people here keep doing this?

Whenever something happens, so often the first reaction of a great number of Irish people seems to be "quick, quick, what are the British going to be saying about this??!"

And when it quickly turns out that right leaning publications have a viewpoint that was always going to be at odds with theirs, they become a seething, smoldering ball of indignation.

It's always the posters with a very obvious dislike for the Brits who go hunting for articles to fume about which is all the more strange. Life is too short for it lads. They don't care one iota what we think here, maybe there are a few here who should follow that lead and lose the insecurities: let's focus on what we think, what our reactions to events are.

Firstly, you don't know my opinion on Martin McGuinness as I have not expressed them here at all.
I also take offence of your “always the posters with a very obvious dislike for the Brits” comments as I do not have this and I’d like you to show me how you form this opinion of me?

His passing however, is something that impacts people from both sides of the political divide so I think it’s normal out of curiosity and to be informed to have a look at what is being said. How else are people to form opinions without gathering information.

I was surprised by the coverage and also the comments and posted links here, I don’t see how this is a smouldering ball of indignation.

I find it very annoying when posts like yours lambaste people for merely having an opinion.

I actually agree with you regarding the British not caring what we think here, that’s what my post was actually pointing out, but you just go ahead and ignore the details of what I said and make me out to be something I am not.

murpho999 · 22-03-2017 08:51AM

There will be no IRA presence at the funeral as they are officially disbanded and decommissioned.

McGuinness would want to leave behind a legacy of a politician not an IRA member.

Any activity at other funerals was from dissident IRA groups which he was never involved with..

Would also be very damaging for Sinn Fein if anything like that were to happen so it definitely won't happen.

Fratton Fred · 22-03-2017 08:54AM

FTA69 wrote: »

That was the Reals.

The Provisional IRA are supposed to be fully decommissioned and off the scene, them showing up blasting guns at the funeral of one of the most prominent people in SF might look a bit silly don't you think? It's not going to happen.

I think people are living in fantasy land.

The President, Taoiseach, NI First Minister and probably the NI secretary are all going to be at the funeral and people think the PSNI or SDU are going to let seven lads with balaclavas and armalites turn up and start letting off rounds?

Jelle1880 · 22-03-2017 08:58AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Cry me a river. If you can't see what egregiously predatory and utterly odious creatures tabloid journalists are, then there's nothing I can do. I am so utterly unmoved by this sudden opposition to murdering people from a British tabloid, fresh from quotidian glorifications of the mass murder across the world of the poppy-loving heroes of the British Empire.

The natives fight back against British colonial occupation = "terrorism!", screams John Bull. Britannia invades most countries on the planet (you missed 22, I believe), kills the natives and exploits their resources for centuries - "Break out the poppies, old bean; we must commemorate these heroes!"

It seems you've completely missed the point and would rather moan about the evil Brits. Whataboutery must be so easy.

The comments you're so upset about were about the fact that McGuinness (and Adams) could have given many a family from both sides of the conflict peace of mind by simply saying where the bodies of their relatives were dumped. You seem to find that funny somehow, yet want us to take you serious ?

DrWu · 22-03-2017 09:03AM

Brits should have finished the provos off when they had the chance. Riddled with crime and informers, the writing was on the wall for them. MMG must have thanked his lucky stars (and John Hume) that the Brits didn't deliver the killing blow. Thoughts are with the families of all the victims that MMG is responsible for, including our own Guards and army members.

FrancieBrady · 22-03-2017 09:14AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

It seems you've completely missed the point and would rather moan about the evil Brits. Whataboutery must be so easy.

The comments from the Daily Mail were about the fact that McGuinness (and Adams) could have given many a family from both sides of the conflict peace of mind by simply saying where the bodies of their relatives were dumped.

They refused to do so to this day, THAT is what was meant. The fact you turn it into something totally different isn't my fault or that of tabloids.

The ICLVR have expressed satisfaction with their interaction with former members of the IRA in locating victims remains and believe their efforts have been sincere. I posted the statement made by the relevant MLA to the Executive about it before.

It is a Daily Mail style crutch to fulminate about this based on skimpy information and also to ignore the fact that the IRA have said they are willing to take part in a Truth Commission, which the British have refused to countenance.
This is the British who have buried the files relating to Dublin-Monaghan for another lengthy period and who we now know withheld information from the UN Convention of Human Rights relating to torture not to mention taking 40 years to own up to what happened on Bloody Sunday.

The IRA and SF have said clearly that they will co-operate with a proper Truth Commission.

Is it not time that the pressure was on others to at least call their bluff on it? As you say, people are dying off and soon it will be a pointless exercise and the wounds will remain open. Have we learned nothing from the formation of our own state where this info was willfully suppressed and led to years of damaging civil war politics.

FrancieBrady · 22-03-2017 09:18AM

DrWu wrote: »

Brits should have finished the provos off when they had the chance. Riddled with crime and informers, the writing was on the wall for them. MMG must have thanked his lucky stars (and John Hume) that the Brits didn't deliver the killing blow. Thoughts are with the families of all the victims that MMG is responsible for, including our own Guards and army members.

Hope you are sitting down.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/6276416.stm

Army paper says IRA not defeated
Army concedes for first time it did not win the battle against the IRA
Army concedes for first time it did not win the battle against the IRA
An internal British army document examining 37 years of deployment in Northern Ireland contains the claim by one expert that it failed to defeat the IRA.
The admission is contained in a discussion document released by the Ministry of Defence after a request under the Freedom of Information Act.

The 100 page document analyses in detail the army's role over 37 years.

It focuses on specific operations and gives an overview of its performance.

The six-month study, covering the period 1968-2005, was prepared under the direction of the then chief of general staff, General Sir Mike Jackson.

The document, obtained by the Pat Finucane Centre, points to a number of mistakes, including internment and highlights what lessons have been learnt.

It describes the IRA as "a professional, dedicated, highly skilled and resilient force", while loyalist paramilitaries and other republican groups are described as "little more than a collection of gangsters".

It concedes for the first time that it did not win the battle against the IRA - but claims to have "shown the IRA that it could not achieve its ends through violence".

In a statement, the Pat Finucane Centre - a human rights group - said the document "betrays a profoundly colonial mindset towards the conflict here and those involved in it".

"Loyalist violence and the links between loyalist paramilitaries and the state has been airbrushed out of this military history," it said.

In a statement issued on Friday, an Army spokesman said: "This publication considers the high level general issues that might be applicable to any future counter-terrorist campaign that the British Armed Forces might have to undertake.

"It is critically important to consider what was learned by those who served in Northern Ireland."

22-03-2017 09:27AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Here's the lovely Norman spreading aspersions about the testimony of the accusers of his mate Jimmy Saville,

In fact, try and read the whole article without getting nauseous would be my challenge! :rolleyes:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/jun/15/norman-tebbit-interview

You can find a pic of a laughing Liam Adams on the campaign trail with SF leader and brother Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness.