Louise O Neill on rape culture.

RabbleRouser2k · 12-03-2017 9:40pm

Ferrari3600 wrote: »

He was found not guilty on a technicality because the warrant was a day out of date! Not surprisingly this verdict or more specifically the reason it had to be given led to a cynical reaction by the general public and media.

Yeah, I mentioned the warrant being out of date in an earlier post-the reason for it being so was a claim that he had been out of the country/ or they had been unable to contact him due to illness or whatever.
Thus any evidence obtained with the late warrant was effectively obtained illegally-and so the child porn was inadmissable. He walked free on a technicality, but unless new info was obtained, or new evidence, then yeah-he's free.

RabbleRouser2k · 12-03-2017 9:44pm

anna080 wrote: »

People are confusing and renouncing personal responsibility for victim blaming. Victim blaming would be saying "you deserved it, what else did you expect would happen", not "best not to leave your bag open waking through town, there are serious weirdos about who would take advantage of the fact that it's left open". I detest that people can't even be told to mind themselves now or it's assumed you're blaming them for whatever could potentially happen them.

Que some people "ya well I deserve to have the right to walk around town with my bag open if I so please! If some creep takes my money that is their fault! I won't be oppressed and told to close my bag for fear of being robbed in this male privilege society! Ugh!"
No. There will always be weirdos. And any man women or child could rob your money, so do what you can do to potentially prevent that and close your bag. That is not me victim blaming. That is me telling you to have some cop on for yourself.
People take measures to avoid being in ****ty situations all the time, that is not victim blaming, that is called being a responsible adult.

It's just logical-ie cover the pad on the atm so someone doesn't steal your pin.
Or don't drink and drive else you willl kill yourself, or kill someone else.

Of course nobody blames the victim of a crime-but this is the feminist mentality-a hive mind., rather than encourage the individual.

There are even feminist groups who are 'informing' women of how they should dress-despite claims to be challenging the 'patriarchy's' attitudes of how a woman should dress.

deaddonkey15 · 13-03-2017 2:36pm

https://www.facebook.com/FlipsideIreland/videos/vb.672506642948504/673822969483538/?type=2&theater

I came across this video on Facebook earlier. Whilst I'm aware that these things can be easily edited to suit an agenda and whilst being pro choice myself, many of these girls just come across as incredibly ill-informed and unsure of what exactly repealing the 8th amendment means. The ages of these women are interesting too, largely millennials who are no doubt downing the Louise O'Neill kool-aid instead of doing actual research for themselves.

I have no doubt that if they were asked, they would also agree that we live in a rape culture before struggling to properly define or justify the term if questioned on it. This is the influence of people like O'Neill on the next generation and it's worrying.

silverharp · 13-03-2017 2:56pm

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/FlipsideIreland/videos/vb.672506642948504/673822969483538/?type=2&theater

I came across this video on Facebook earlier. Whilst I'm aware that these things can be easily edited to suit an agenda and whilst being pro choice myself, many of these girls just come across as incredibly ill-informed and unsure of what exactly repealing the 8th amendment means. The ages of these women are interesting too, largely millennials who are no doubt downing the Louise O'Neill kool-aid instead of doing actual research for themselves.

Im always a bit suspect of these gotcha interviews, if they were the first 6 or 7 people he interviewed, it means something, if he ignored dozens of others that gave reasonable answers then not so much

RabbleRouser2k · 13-03-2017 4:12pm

silverharp wrote: »

Im always a bit suspect of these gotcha interviews, if they were the first 6 or 7 people he interviewed, it means something, if he ignored dozens of others that gave reasonable answers then not so much

This is clearly edited to make some folks look like idiots. (Though some help themselves). There is jump cut in interviews that shows a very obvious agenda-make these people's opinions look as dumb as possible-even the intelligent folks we wanna make look stupid.

It's not good, but then again, some of these people get aggressive when you disagree with em-so used to clicking the 'block' button on twitter they don't have an argument.

ivytwine · 13-03-2017 10:03pm

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

This is clearly edited to make some folks look like idiots. (Though some help themselves). There is jump cut in interviews that shows a very obvious agenda-make these people's opinions look as dumb as possible-even the intelligent folks we wanna make look stupid.

It's not good, but then again, some of these people get aggressive when you disagree with em-so used to clicking the 'block' button on twitter they don't have an argument.

Twitter is such a crock of nonsense though. Especially for discussing such complex issues. At least Facebook gives you the space for debate. Most people use twitter for I don't even know what- I know one person who pretty much follows poker accounts only- and for small numbers of left and right it's a ridiculous echo chamber. I'd dearly love for people to pay it no mind and it'll eventually go away.
It really has done so much damage to debate and discussion.

Outlaw Pete · 13-03-2017 10:07pm

As spoken about yesterday, some feminists seem to confuse warnings about what raises risk factors of being assaulted and how to reduce them, with actually being blamed for causing the assault.

I see Louise has just re-tweeted the following tweet which shows the latest poster from An Garda Siochana's 'Community Safety' as doing just that, when in actuality it is doing anything but:

https://twitter.com/TweetsbySimone/status/841388800525897731

Widdershins · 13-03-2017 10:16pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

As spoken about yesterday, some feminists seem to confuse warnings about what raises risk factors of being assaulted and how to reduce them, with actually being blamed for causing the assault.

I see Louise has just re-tweeted the following tweet which shows the latest poster from An Garda Siochana's 'Community Safety' as doing just that, when in actuality it is doing anything but:

https://twitter.com/TweetsbySimone/status/841388800525897731

I'd imagine some people find ''tell someone where you're going'' quite patronising or controlling/controlled. I actually let my other half know by text if I have a significant change of plan in the middle of a night out. I'm more likely to have to 'rescue' a friend(one in particular is a bit of a wally when she's drunk) than need rescue myself, but if something strange or bad happened I'd prefer if my route was fairly easy to work out. I've had enough bad experiences to prefer being paranoid than being sorry I wasn't.

red ears · 13-03-2017 10:20pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

As spoken about yesterday, some feminists seem to confuse warnings about what raises risk factors of being assaulted and how to reduce them, with actually being blamed for causing the assault.

I see Louise has just re-tweeted the following tweet which shows the latest poster from An Garda Siochana's 'Community Safety' as doing just that, when in actuality it is doing anything but:

https://twitter.com/TweetsbySimone/status/841388800525897731

Its reckless for louise o neill to support a tweet like that. We face all sorts of dangers in life, taking precautions is prudent and wise. Considering your personal safety on a night out is the right thing to do. As a man i don't fear getting raped but i fear getting my head kicked in so i take precautions if i'm out at night. Women need to do the same. It doesn't mean they are at fault. I don't really understand how she can't see that.

Outlaw Pete · 13-03-2017 10:27pm

Widdershins wrote: »

I'd imagine some people find ''tell someone where you're going'' quite patronising or controlling/controlled.

Seems to be aimed at teenagers rather than grown ups though tbf... I mean look at the photo.

For a community awareness campaign to be framed as the Irish State "blaming" girls for getting attacked seems an extraordinarily irresponsible thing to suggest.

On one hand these people say we live in a culture which normalizes and trivializes such assaults and then when there's a campaign of awareness about such attacks, they don't like that either.

retro:electro · 13-03-2017 10:29pm

Before Christmas the Guards also tweeted for people to be mindful that it's prime time for homes to be robbed and always make sure always your windows and doors are locked when you leave the house. Is that also the state blaming the potential victim and not the attacker? Or them just doing their best to ensure that while sh!tty things will always happen, you should do your best to try and protect yourself from something sh!tty happening to you.

Widdershins · 13-03-2017 10:32pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Seems to be aimed at teenagers rather than grown ups though...

For a community awareness campaign to be framed as the Irish State "blaming" girls for getting attacked seems an extraordinarily irresponsible thing to suggest.

On one hand these people say we live in a culture which normalizes and trivializes such assaults and then when there's a campaign of awareness about such attacks, they don't like that either.

I suppose they think the posters should be aimed at men to tell them not to go molesting any women?

Ireland has a lot of missing women, and many adult women feature in the assault statistics, not sure why aimed at teenagers in particular. Model in poster looks about my age as far as I can tell. Teenagers seem to go around in bigger groups too.

neonsofa · 13-03-2017 10:35pm

I saw that tweet and thought "Oh that is so creepy, why do they have a picture of this creepy dark sinister looking fella just watching her" then I realised it was someone taking a photo of the bus stop and the lighting was different as it wasn't actually part of the poster...feel like a dope now

Widdershins · 13-03-2017 10:37pm

neonsofa wrote: »

I saw that tweet and thought "Oh that is so creepy, why do they have a picture of this creepy dark sinister looking fella just watching her" then I realised it was someone taking a photo of the bus stop and the lighting was different as it wasn't actually part of the poster...feel like a dope now

So did I

neonsofa · 13-03-2017 10:38pm

Widdershins wrote: »

So did I

Aw glad I'm not the village idiot

Outlaw Pete · 13-03-2017 10:42pm

Ah hang on here for a second....

In the following poster, beside the small silhouette of a man's head icon half way down, it says: "Be wary of strangers!"

So, what happens if I'm not and I get beaten up by someone guy I just met? Are the Gardai saying it's my fault!!!!!! :mad:

DN%20gara.JPG

ivytwine · 13-03-2017 10:43pm

It's common bloody sense though. And what does it say that about the complainants that that's where their mind goes? What if you get lost and fall into the river (this has happened to a scary amount of people in Galway)? Or mugged and beaten up? Or like the poor chap in Dublin last week, a victim of a hit and run? Or get locked out and get hypothermia?
Like I don't think the gardai are trying to sew paranoia here. It's generally a good idea to have a vague plan of how you're going to get home after a night out. You'd think Louise, being from west Cork, with its dearth of public transport or taxis would understand that.
I'm so tired of this constant refrain that rape is the only bad thing that can happen to people on our streets. And I'm even more tired of the stranger danger thing. Most rapists are known to their victims. Stranger rapes are RARE. Let people live their lives with the usual amount of common sense- or what that used to be.

Widdershins · 13-03-2017 10:45pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Ah hang on here for a second....

In the following poster, beside the small silhouette of a man's head icon half way down, it says: "Be wary of strangers!"

So, what happens if I'm not and I get beaten up by someone guy I just met? Are the Gardai saying it's my fault!!!!!! :mad:

I get it now!
Teenagers have Valuables!

Widdershins · 13-03-2017 10:51pm

ivytwine wrote: »

It's common bloody sense though. And what does it say that about the complainants that that's where their mind goes? What if you get lost and fall into the river (this has happened to a scary amount of people in Galway)? Or mugged and beaten up? Or like the poor chap in Dublin last week, a victim of a hit and run? Or get locked out and get hypothermia?
Like I don't think the gardai are trying to sew paranoia here. It's generally a good idea to have a vague plan of how you're going to get home after a night out. You'd think Louise, being from west Cork, with its dearth of public transport or taxis would understand that.
I'm so tired of this constant refrain that rape is the only bad thing that can happen to people on our streets. And I'm even more tired of the stranger danger thing. Most rapists are known to their victims. Stranger rapes are RARE. Let people live their lives with the usual amount of common sense- or what that used to be.

Your car could fail to start, or a taxi could be nowhere to be seen and your phone could be flat, or lost. Perfectly ordinary things happen all the time and it's handy not to be totally stranded!

jameorahiely · 13-03-2017 10:53pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Ah hang on here for a second....

In the following poster, beside the small silhouette of a man's head icon half way down, it says: "Be wary of strangers!"

So, what happens if I'm not and I get beaten up by someone guy I just met? Are the Gardai saying it's my fault!!!!!! :mad:

You'll be grand if you're only not wary of strange women

mzungu · 13-03-2017 11:05pm

I think this article highlights the craziness of identity politics. Last weekend, Nigerian author Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie said in an interview: “When people talk about, ‘Are trans women women?’ my feeling is trans women are trans women.” . Her point being that before they transitioned they enjoyed privilege as men, and therefore they would not be able to understand the experience of cisgender women.

Fairly innocuous stuff. Although it has caused controversy and follows on from outrage last week over similar comments made by Loose Women's Jenni Murray:

Adichie is the latest feminist to come under fire over definitions of womanhood. Last week Jenni Murray, presenter of Woman’s Hour, was attacked for an article in which she appeared to question the right of transgender women to be considered “real women”. Writing in the Sunday Times magazine, the broadcaster said that she is “not transphobic or anti-trans” and called for respect and protection from bullying and violence equally for “transsexuals, transvestites, gays, lesbians and those of us who hold to the sex and sexual preference assumed at birth”. But the article appeared under the headline: “Jenni Murray: Be trans, be proud – but don’t call yourself a ‘real woman’”.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/mar/13/chimamanda-ngozi-adichie-clarifies-transgender-comments

Is this a sign of things to come? Before, people outside of the identity groupings were rife for shaming (Tim Hunt, Shirt guy etc), now the movement looks to be cannibalising itself. It seems that intersectionality is increasingly becoming (if it is not there already) akin to a cult where even the most banal of statements will be jumped on for not being completely "on message".

Dynomutt · 13-03-2017 11:20pm

Originally Posted by neonsofa
I saw that tweet and thought "Oh that is so creepy, why do they have a picture of this creepy dark sinister looking fella just watching her" then I realised it was someone taking a photo of the bus stop and the lighting was different as it wasn't actually part of the poster...feel like a dope now

I think the creepy dark sinister looking fella is actually the original tweeter standing disapprovingly by the poster.

mzungu · 13-03-2017 11:20pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

On one hand these people say we live in a culture which normalizes and trivializes such assaults and then when there's a campaign of awareness about such attacks, they don't like that either.

If all crime was eradicated tomorrow, it still wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. Some people will never be happy with anything.

Widdershins wrote: »

I suppose they think the posters should be aimed at men to tell them not to go molesting any women?

Now yer gettin' it! :P:pac:

Smegmaniac17 · 13-03-2017 11:24pm

mzungu wrote: »

I think this article highlights the craziness of identity politics. Last weekend, Nigerian author Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie said in an interview: “When people talk about, ‘Are trans women women?’ my feeling is trans women are trans women.” . Her point being that before they transitioned they enjoyed privilege as men, and therefore they would not be able to understand the experience of cisgender women.

Fairly innocuous stuff. Although it has caused controversy and follows on from outrage last week over similar comments made by Loose Women's Jenni Murray:

Is this a sign of things to come? Before, people outside of the identity groupings were rife for shaming (Tim Hunt, Shirt gut etc), now the movement seems to be cannibalising itself. It seems that intersectionality is increasingly becoming (if it is not there already) akin to a cult where even the most banal of statements will be jumped on for not being completely "on message".

Yeah, it's looking that way alright. Ive actually heard a speech from Chimamanda a few weeks back and I have to admit that I agreed with most of what she said. I think if the feminist movement has any ambitions to become mainstream, this is the type of woman that they want fronting it! Though, it is highly doubtful that they do want it to become mainstream anyway!

neonsofa · 13-03-2017 11:28pm

Dynomutt wrote: »

I think the creepy dark sinister looking fella is actually the original tweeter standing disapprovingly by the poster.

Yeah I figured that after a few moments too many

Outlaw Pete · 13-03-2017 11:32pm

Widdershins wrote: »

I suppose they think the posters should be aimed at men to tell them not to go molesting any women?

Well, obviously..

Sure haven't they made many of their own posters over the years which I'm sure will make rapists think twice before they head off for a night of raping.

Dynomutt · 13-03-2017 11:36pm

Originally Posted by neonsofa
Yeah I figured that after a few moments too many

I just found it funny that she looks like the type of person the gardai are warning about - dodgy looking stranger with a hood up lurking in the darkness.

neonsofa · 13-03-2017 11:38pm

Dynomutt wrote: »

I just found it funny that she looks like the type of person the gardai are warning about - dodgy looking stranger with a hood up lurking in the darkness.

That's why I thought it was the poster :pac: they dreamed up this boogie man watching the woman, I thought it was a bit much and then realised!

ivytwine · 13-03-2017 11:40pm

Smegmaniac17 wrote: »

Yeah, it's looking that way alright. Ive actually heard a speech from Chimamanda a few weeks back and I have to admit that I agreed with most of what she said. I think if the feminist movement has any ambitions to become mainstream, this is the type of woman that they want fronting it! Though, it is highly doubtful that they do want it to become mainstream anyway!

I, in general, like her and I cannot see anything overly controversial in what she said. I think she's very articulate and seems to be quite open to debate. I loved Americanah as well, I don't think what's she's said about trans women is overly different to that novel's observation that the experiences of African Americans and Africans living in America are very different. Some people are demanding that she stops speaking for trans women... surely in itself acknowledging a difference.

I must say some of the bootlicking Louise O'Neill did when she was on the no7 campaign with Chimamanda was cringeworthy.

The identity sector of the left has been cannibalising itself for a while. Especially with regarding trans rights. I don't keep up with it any more tbh but there's definite People's Front of Judea stuff going on. And I think a lot of more moderate people are tired of it, plus Trump especially proved to be a short sharp shock.

Smegmaniac17 · 13-03-2017 11:46pm

ivytwine wrote: »

I, in general, like her and I cannot see anything overly controversial in what she said. I think she's very articulate and seems to be quite open to debate. I loved Americanah as well, I don't think what's she's said about trans women is overly different to that novel's observation that the experiences of African Americans and Africans living in America are very different. Some people are demanding that she stops speaking for trans women... surely in itself acknowledging a difference.

I must say some of the bootlicking Louise O'Neill did when she was on the no7 campaign with Chimamanda was cringeworthy.

The identity sector of the left has been cannibalising itself for a while. Especially with regarding trans rights. I don't keep up with it any more tbh but there's definite People's Front of Judea stuff going on. And I think a lot of more moderate people are tired of it, plus Trump especially proved to be a short sharp shock.

Can you elaborate on the bootlicking? I don't know anything about that

( But I predict some cringing!

Louise O Neill on rape culture.

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