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Bust Éireann

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    #1172
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,037 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    murphaph wrote: »
    What a load of waffle. Bus Eireann don't need to remain. The routes can be just as well if not better operated by privates.

    You'd make any excuse to justify donating tax payers money to very well paid semi state employees.

    As said to you countless times, private operating of tendered out routes with minimum service levels are quite common and quite successful beyond the UK. You dislike this model purely because the wages are lower. No other reason.


    the operator has stipulations and requirements to meet in the contract so simply have to meet those. it's not their job to do any more, so therefore the routes can't be operated any better. so no reason exists to remove the publically owned, publically funded company in my view.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #1173
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,140 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    end of the road wrote: »
    the operator has stipulations and requirements to meet in the contract so simply have to meet those. it's not their job to do any more, so therefore the routes can't be operated any better. so no reason exists to remove the publically owned, publically funded company in my view.

    They cost more.


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    #1174
    ted44
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭ted44


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Can BE drivers not hot swap? 2.25 hours into the journey the bus meets the bus coming the other way. Drivers swap. 4.5 hours after leaving the depot they're back. Break time. Head off on another shorter route, maybe even got swap again, back in the depot before overtime kicks in.

    There is software that can work these kind of shifts out, but correct me if I'm mistaken, drivers are doing overtime because they want to, and are not willing to facilitate better routing that would eliminate that.

    That's all great stuff on paper.
    So what happens when the bus your supposed to meet breaks down and your stuck on the side of a road full with passengers,your plan goes out the window, and as for the SHORT journey your rosterd for when you get back, is also out the window. So can you tell me what's the name of the software that can sort this situation


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    #1175
    BuffyBot
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 24,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭BuffyBot


    Well congratulations to multiple folks on getting this thread temporarily closed.

    I'll consider re-opening it in the a.m. In the mean time I'd recommend folks re-read the following:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057694633

    and

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=89781

    Some folks should expect sanctions.


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    #1176
    BuffyBot
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 24,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭BuffyBot


    I've re-opened this thread, but it's future is in the hands of those who post in it.

    Be respectful, be constructive and be sure to have read what I posted above


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    #1177
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    ted44 wrote: »
    That's all great stuff on paper.
    So what happens when the bus your supposed to meet breaks down and your stuck on the side of a road full with passengers,your plan goes out the window, and as for the SHORT journey your rosterd for when you get back, is also out the window. So can you tell me what's the name of the software that can sort this situation

    Literally sh!t happens, you've just got to deal with it when it does. If it breaks down in the middle of your 4.5 hour journey, the return leg is also affected. There's no difference.

    If buses are breaking down too frequently, then do more preventative maintenance. But to say it's a reason not to fine tune rosters is a smoke screen.


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    #1178
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    emroid wrote: »
    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    Is there a reason that there is so much overtime in bus eireann. If drivers are being paid time and a half for overtime why the hell are the management accepting the widespread overtime at present. Can they not recruit additional drivers.

    Simple terms.
    Journey from A to B takes 4.5 hours. So there and back is 9 hours work.
    Driver gets 8 hours pay at normal rate and 1 hour at overtime rate.

    Journey from A to B takes 1.5 hours. Driver does this twice before the break for 6 hours and once after the break for 3 hours for a total of 9 hour work. Driver gets 8 hours pay at normal rate and 1 hour at overtime rate.
    Thank you. Why do drivers get overtime after doing an 8 hour shift I assume they are doing 5 eight hour shifts a week. Why not have 4 ten hour shifts a week. Will the unions refuse this type of shift pattern?


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    #1179
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    end of the road wrote: »
    the operator has stipulations and requirements to meet in the contract so simply have to meet those. it's not their job to do any more, so therefore the routes can't be operated any better. so no reason exists to remove the publically owned, publically funded company in my view.

    The same applies to BE, they also have no need to do any more than the stipulations and requirements of the contract, so using your own analogy no reason exists to keep the publically owned and publically funded company either. BE would not give any improved "greater good of the communities" over any other operator when they are both providing the same service under contract.


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    #1180
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    end of the road wrote: »
    the operator has stipulations and requirements to meet in the contract so simply have to meet those. it's not their job to do any more, so therefore the routes can't be operated any better. so no reason exists to remove the publically owned, publically funded company in my view.
    They can be operated better. A private company that takes pride in its vehicles and staff will be better placed to win routes over slovenly ones. The NTA can look at 2 close bids and pick the better quality offering.

    Hypothetical question for you:
    If company x offers better comfort to passengers than BE and costs less to the taxpayer, who should get the route?


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    #1181
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    murphaph wrote: »
    Customers are workers! 30 years ago ordinary working people could hardly afford a flight to London.

    30 years ago they could afford a train to London.


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    #1182
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    Brendan Bendar wrote: »
    Who do you think you are kidding ,my friend.

    You are across every dispute thread here, batting for the strikers.

    Who do you think you are kidding .

    I might have had some respect for you if you pumped out an agenda, but to think you can put yourself out as a centerist !!!


    Take a running jump, my friend.

    You need to stop taking people for idiots.

    But his view is probably centrist. How many Irish people actually want a privatised public transport system?


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    #1183
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    They cost more.

    The evidence in the UK is that privatised rail costs both the government and the customer more.

    Whether that applies to buses her I don't know. I'd be surprised of certain operators didn't in fact up prices as they aren't making that much profit.


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    #1184
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,071 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    But his view is probably centrist. How many Irish people actually want a privatised public transport system?

    you d be surprised of the amount of people who beleive neoliberalism works


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    #1185
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    30 years ago they could afford a train to London.

    After getting off the ferry to Holyhead as they couldn't afford the flights.


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    #1186
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    you d be surprised of the amount of people who beleive neoliberalism works

    The same can be said for socialism.


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    #1187
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,071 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    n97 mini wrote: »
    The same can be said for socialism.

    typical two dimensional thinking on boards regarding these issues....

    there are other forms of capitalism and other economic systems, theories and models! two dimensional thinking is very very boring!


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    #1188
    salonfire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    you d be surprised of the amount of people who beleive neoliberalism works

    You mean the system that puts a roof over your head. Puts fuel in your car. Provides the clothes on your back. The food in your belly. Allows you to travel almost anywhere in the world relatively cheaply. Offers you a choice of electricity suppliers. A choice of TV stations. A choice of what car to buy. A choice of Internet and phone providers.

    Sounds horrible. I can see why you would want to change it to something that has never been proven to work for the people.


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    #1189
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    typical two dimensional thinking on boards regarding these issues....

    there are other forms of capitalism and other economic systems, theories and models! two dimensional thinking is very very boring!
    I'm a centrist :cool:


  • Options
    #1190
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,071 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    salonfire wrote: »
    You mean the system that puts a roof over your head. Puts fuel in your car. Provides the clothes on your back. The food in your belly. Allows you to travel almost anywhere in the world relatively cheaply. Offers you a choice of electricity suppliers. A choice of TV stations. A choice of what car to buy. A choice of Internet and phone providers.

    Sounds horrible. I can see why you would want to change it to something that has never been proven to work for the people.

    again! i will agree with deirdre mccloskey, the customer has benefitted largely from the (not so) free market system but i will agree with those that say the worker has not by increasing 'worker insecurity', this argument is becoming very very boring! neoliberalism is failing! the market is badly failing in regards our housing and health care needs. dont forget, a large amount of the foods for sale are not particularly good for human consumption and probably should be banned, but due to market rules, i.e. 'interfering with the market', this is taboo!


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    #1191
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    n97 mini wrote: »
    The same can be said for socialism.

    Being opposed to rail or bus privatisation is not socialism. Or else most conservatives in the UK would be socialist. On the other hand the liberalisation of the airline industry is supported by most.

    For a free market system to work competition must exist. We would have less competition in the absence of BE.


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    #1192
    Trampas
    Registered Users Posts: 7,538 ✭✭✭Trampas


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    But his view is probably centrist. How many Irish people actually want a privatised public transport system?

    Most people couldn't give a flying fk who supplies/drives the train, bus etc as long it is reliable, clean, reasonably priced.

    Some of the drivers on my route 120 are always late, slow driving and boarding passengers. Never say thank you, hello or goodbye. Like you should be thankful he's driving the bus as if he wasn't you'd be going nowhere.


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    #1193
    salonfire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    We would have less competition in the absence of BE.

    We would also have less competition if the private companies were restricted to the benefit of Bus Eireann which is what the union wants.


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    #1194
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    salonfire wrote: »
    You mean the system that puts a roof over your head. Puts fuel in your car. Provides the clothes on your back. The food in your belly. Allows you to travel almost anywhere in the world relatively cheaply. Offers you a choice of electricity suppliers. A choice of TV stations. A choice of what car to buy. A choice of Internet and phone providers.

    Sounds horrible. I can see why you would want to change it to something that has never been proven to work for the people.

    Unless he said he wanted to nationalise all those industries you are talking rot.

    And capitalism doesn't put a roof over everybody's head (it doesn't put a roof over any body's head unless they pay) , oil exploration depends on government subsidies, and the Internet started in government owned universities. So did much of the other technologies you mentioned.

    The mixed economy is what is being defended here.


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    #1195
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    salonfire wrote: »
    We would also have less competition if the private companies were restricted to the benefit of Bus Eireann which is what the union wants.

    Yes. I suppose but I am not advocating that.


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    #1196
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    Trampas wrote: »
    Most people couldn't give a flying fk who supplies/drives the train, bus etc as long it is reliable, clean, reasonably priced.

    Some of the drivers on my route 120 are always late, slow driving and boarding passengers. Never say thank you, hello or goodbye. Like you should be thankful he's driving the bus as if he wasn't you'd be going nowhere.

    You expect the minimum waged private sector worker to be a bundle of joy? Anyway that's Dublin bus.


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    #1197
    Trampas
    Registered Users Posts: 7,538 ✭✭✭Trampas


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    You expect the minimum waged private sector worker to be a bundle of joy? Anyway that's Dublin bus.

    No but when you're paying your fare to put leap card on machine, state destination to processing and taken your card away you don't get a word from him and even don't look at you. I always say thank you and please on and off bus. End of the day you're paying his wages. Doesn't like his job then quit. He's a face of the company no matter what he thinks. All employees who deal with customers for all companies are


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    #1198
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    Being opposed to rail or bus privatisation is not socialism. Or else most conservatives in the UK would be socialist.

    :confused:

    The Conservatives privatised everything.


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    #1199
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,037 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    murphaph wrote: »
    They can be operated better. A private company that takes pride in its vehicles and staff will be better placed to win routes over slovenly ones. The NTA can look at 2 close bids and pick the better quality offering.

    Hypothetical question for you:
    If company x offers better comfort to passengers than BE and costs less to the taxpayer, who should get the route?

    bus eireann's vehicles have been clean and tidy when i have used them.
    Trampas wrote: »
    Most people couldn't give a flying fk who supplies/drives the train, bus etc as long it is reliable, clean, reasonably priced.

    Some of the drivers on my route 120 are always late, slow driving and boarding passengers. Never say thank you, hello or goodbye. Like you should be thankful he's driving the bus as if he wasn't you'd be going nowhere.

    to be fair a driver not saying hello and goodby is hardly the end of the world. it seems to be only an irish expectation rather then anything general from my experience, when i have been abroad it has never happened.
    n97 mini wrote: »

    The Conservatives privatised everything.

    indeed. but little known is that thatcher even thought rail privatization to be barmy hence why she never persued it. granted the railway wasn't something she was bothered about either way but that step she didn't wish to take.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #1200
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Not just Thatcher. The Conservatives under John Major privatised BR.


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    #1201
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    30 years ago they could afford a train to London.
    Oh that's much better. Only 7 hours to get to London that way.


This discussion has been closed.
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