Bust Éireann

horseburger

n97 mini wrote: »

No, the only thing he said is that old people feed ducks, and that ducks don't need to be fed at rush hour. If they never feed ducks then you're right.

It's kind of like arguing he has a bad attitude towards ducks too.

I think you are just replying to me for the sake of replying to me, but saying nothing.

The negative attitude, of the comments, to which I referred, are clear.

It'd be like saying that young people heading into town at weekends are just using buses and trains, to go to clubs and pubs, to engage in drug taking, excessive drinking, fights, and all sorts of anti-social behaviour.

flutered

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Hardly. Today's OAP's enjoy a standard of living that will be far out of reach for the generations coming up behind them. People have to remember that you don't pay in to get back out. Pensions are funded from today's tax payers.

so the folks who paid +70% tax only kept the oap's who were getting a pittance back in the day

n97 mini

horseburger wrote: »

It'd be like saying that young people heading into town at weekends are just using buses and trains, to go to clubs and pubs, to engage in drug taking, excessive drinking, fights, and all sorts of anti-social behaviour.

Which wouldn't be inaccurate, but that's not saying all do.

flutered

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

It's not that their taxes are of less value, it's that the taxes they paid are long spent.

In any case I agree that OAP's do not cause excessive loadings at peak time generally. That said, where the network is at capacity it should refuse to carry non fare paying passengers. These passengers can wait until capacity becomes available or pay the normal fare.

again 2nd class citizens, if tge demand for seats are there then provide the seats, welfare payes b.e. an agreed amount for every seat that is filled

markpb

horseburger wrote: »

The negative attitude, of the poster, against older people, is clear. Here is what was stated: "Ducks don't have to be fed at rush hour".

Despite your repeated emotive assumptions about my attitude, you've still failed to provide a single example of a trip which must be taken by an OAP at peak times.

flutered wrote: »

again 2nd class citizens, if tge demand for seats are there then provide the seats, welfare payes b.e. an agreed amount for every seat that is filled

But this is not what happens today. CIE get handed an amount by DSP and that amount is divided between IR, BE and DB. The amount does not reflect the number of seats used.

oppenheimer1

flutered wrote: »

so the folks who paid +70% tax only kept the oap's who were getting a pittance back in the day

I'm afraid that was indeed the case.

There is a long history of mismanaged finances in this country, with BÉ the latest example.

horseburger

markpb wrote: »

Despite your repeated emotive assumptions about my attitude, you've still failed to provide a single example of a trip which must be taken by an OAP at peak times.




But this is not what happens today. CIE get handed an amount by DSP and that amount is divided between IR, BE and DB. The amount does not reflect the number of seats used.

"Emotive"?

Factual and correct assumptions, more like.

You already stated a "single example" where an older person should be permitted to use a bus at peak times.

You said medical appointments, are a valid reason, for an older person - who is eligible to avail of the free travel pass - to use a bus at peak times.

Medical appointments are, indeed, a valid reason, for an older person, to use buses at peak times.

horseburger

n97 mini wrote: »

No, the only thing he said is that old people feed ducks, and that ducks don't need to be fed at rush hour. If they never feed ducks then you're right.

It's kind of like arguing he has a bad attitude towards ducks too.

On the issue of duck feeding, I'm not sure that there is any specific time that ducks request being fed. Taking this into consideration, it is very possible that some ducks, do indeed like, and need, to be fed at rush hour, and that he might be incorrect in his assertion that "Ducks don't have to be fed at rush hour"?

But, this guideline from the British Bird Lovers page, recommends against feeding ducks too much bread, especially mouldy bread.

It states:

"Too many carbohydrates will eventually lead to obesity in birds and they will become sluggish and may find it difficult to fly. This makes it harder for them to evade predators such as foxes and dogs and losing the ability to fly can also disrupt their natural migration patterns".

and:

"Mouldy bread can also cause aspergillosis in waterfowl, a lung condition that is contracted from inhaling fungi spores. Common symptoms of aspergillosis include gasping, listlessness and dehydration and, if not caught early or left untreated, is fatal to ducks and waterfowl".

http://www.britishbirdlovers.co.uk/bird-food/feeding-ducks

Here are some details about Duck Propagation on the National Association of Regional Games Council page, and a very helpful boards.ie discussion about attracting ducks to a pond.

http://nargc.ie/duck-propagation/

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056754897

horseburger

n97 mini wrote: »

Which wouldn't be inaccurate, but that's not saying all do.

I wasn't saying they all do. I was suggesting that it is an ignorant assumption that some people might have about young people socializing at weekends, that young people can get stereotyped as all just going out to get locked, snort cocaine, smoke weed, get langered drunk etc.

The same type of stereotyping that the poster was doing about older people just using bus services to feed ducks at peak times.

end of the road

murphaph wrote: »

The real reason eotr and co don't want any reform of the FTP is because they know it would come as part of an overall review of how public transport is funded and this would, assuming sanity prevailed, lead to the introduction of route tendering for all routes (with the NTA controlling the fare box), which would lead to the end of a state bus company paying twice the market rate on wages. And don't give me any guff about it being the market rate because that's what they get. They get it because the current system allows them to hold the passengers to random. This would no longer happen in my world.

the current system doesn't allow anyone to hold anyone to ransom. the reason i don't support your suggestions is simply because in my view they bring nothing to the table. the only way any reform of the ftp should change how transport is funded is the scheme is paid for in full. that means nothing in relation to tendering, which again in my view brings nothing to the table as the authority is deciding everything.

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

It's not that their taxes are of less value, it's that the taxes they paid are long spent.

In any case I agree that OAP's do not cause excessive loadings at peak time generally. That said, where the network is at capacity it should refuse to carry non fare paying passengers. These passengers can wait until capacity becomes available or pay the normal fare.

they must be able to travel when they need to travel. the capacity is availible for all, so not the job of those people to wait around and be inconvenienced to suit others.

murphaph

end of the road wrote: »

the current system doesn't allow anyone to hold anyone to ransom. the reason i don't support your suggestions is simply because in my view they bring nothing to the table. the only way any reform of the ftp should change how transport is funded is the scheme is paid for in full. that means nothing in relation to tendering, which again in my view brings nothing to the table as the authority is deciding everything.

What's wrong with the NTA deciding everything? That's how it works in Berlin with the VBB, in Munich with the Mvv etc etc. Would you prefer German style public transport or Irish style public transport? Be honest now.

end of the road wrote: »

they must be able to travel when they need to travel. the capacity is availible for all, so not the job of those people to wait around and be inconvenienced to suit others.

The capacity is not available. People get left behind by buses every day. You appear not to be in tune with the reality of life as a daily commuter depending on these peak hour bus services.

Maybe you don't really believe any of this stuff.

trellheim

Folks : Bus Eireann was not created to run Free transport schemes, neither were DB or IE

If BE collapses the social inclusion side will be run by the NTA who will just take their buses back. Does anyone else see no upside here ; the LUAS drivers got paid off by extending the deal outside transdevs contract , for example , shenanigans at its finest , but with Ross in the chair there's no chance [ remember his inspired leadership regarding the Rio ticketing fiasco/farce ]

oppenheimer1

end of the road wrote: »

they must be able to travel when they need to travel. the capacity is availible for all, so not the job of those people to wait around and be inconvenienced to suit others.

I never proposed banning FTP holders from traveling during the peak hours. What I suggested is that they should pay a normal fare of they do. It is a relatively recent innovation that the FTP is valid during the peak (a ploy to buy OAP votes)

Fare paying passengers should not be left on the side of the road when capacity is being used up by non essential journeys.

I would only advocate this on services that are running at or near capacity, such as during the morning peak inbound on the green Luas.

n97 mini

horseburger wrote: »

I wasn't saying they all do. I was suggesting that it is an ignorant assumption that some people might have about young people socializing at weekends, that young people can get stereotyped as all just going out to get locked, snort cocaine, smoke weed, get langered drunk etc.

The same type of stereotyping that the poster was doing about older people just using bus services to feed ducks at peak times.

I don't think he was suggesting all older people feed ducks at rush hour either.

Anyway I think we've discussed this enough, and we're way of topic.

n97 mini

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I never proposed banning FTP holders from traveling during the peak hours. What I suggested is that they should pay a normal fare of they do. It is a relatively recent innovation that the FTP is valid during the peak (a ploy to buy OAP votes)

Fare paying passengers should not be left on the side of the road when capacity is being used up by non essential journeys.

I would only advocate this on services that are running at or near capacity, such as during the morning peak inbound on the green Luas.

And I'm old enough to remember when free travel was outside of peak hours. Older people could still travel, just not for free, and the world didn't end.

end of the road

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I never proposed banning FTP holders from traveling during the peak hours. What I suggested is that they should pay a normal fare of they do. It is a relatively recent innovation that the FTP is valid during the peak (a ploy to buy OAP votes)

Fare paying passengers should not be left on the side of the road when capacity is being used up by non essential journeys.

I would only advocate this on services that are running at or near capacity, such as during the morning peak inbound on the green Luas.

there is no proof the journeys are non-essential. maybe the people being left behind are taking the non-essential journeys. there is just no proof either way. if people are entitled to an ftp and free travel then they are entitled to an ftp and free travel. if they aren't they aren't. the capacity argument doesn't work as people are left behind whether ftp holders travel or not.

Bass Reeves

end of the road wrote: »

there is no proof the journeys are non-essential. maybe the people being left behind are taking the non-essential journeys. there is just no proof either way. if people are entitled to an ftp and free travel then they are entitled to an ftp and free travel. if they aren't they aren't. the capacity argument doesn't work as people are left behind whether ftp holders travel or not.

while there is no proof that journeys are non-essential neiher is there prioof that they are essential. If peope that are paying are making non-essential journeys at least they are paying. I highlighted a bit in bold that I cannot understand as it is just a fly by night argument. It is verging on trolling. Can you provide links to what you are posting....or is it just incorrect

n97 mini

end of the road wrote: »

there is no proof the journeys are non-essential

Flat earth society said the same about the earth being round.

end of the road

n97 mini wrote: »

Flat earth society said the same about the earth being round.

good for them. it's irrelevant however as the earth isn't flat and there is oceans of proof of that being the case.

BuffyBot

Well "ducking" done, folks..

Thread closed, through the contributions of those posting.