Does anyone know what the ethnic Traveller Status statement actually means?

03-03-2017 10:24AM

elefant wrote: »

Yes, of course. That is exactly what I'm saying.

It was fairly unequivocal.

I find that ridiculous. To think the prospect of travellers getting some recognition now means we must treat all children the same and throw out any suggestion of an education system to meet the needs of the poor, the disadvantaged, those with special needs and yes, those children from a background that may have had difficulties with the system such as travellers.

I'd be in favour of a child centric approach myself, rather than "do we like their parents". If that means giving some children support, then so be it.

elefant · 03-03-2017 10:38AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd be in favour of a child centric approach myself, rather than "do we like their parents". If that means giving some children support, then so be it.

Which is what I said. All Irish children should have access to support if they need it, regardless of who their parents are. I don't see any reason there needs to be separate funding for traveller education.

Galwayguy35 · 03-03-2017 10:39AM

Noddyholder wrote: »

Tell me Galway guy do you think the balinaslo horse fair should be stopped, it brings in aprox 8 million to the local community, in which its badly needed, as the town its self seems to be dieing, I have been there many many times and despite the trouble that certainly does erupt,like at all concerts and all major outdoor gigs, it's great for the craic and fun, for those that don't know about it, it's the king of horse fairs in this country, and it's majority attending are travellers, I have also been to Appleby horse fair in England which is the equivalent, and also brings in more needed revenue,
Ah I forgot I am not supposed to have any dealing with traveler's sure what would I know.
Sorry for typo I on phone.

No I don't think it should be stopped but I think there should be a bit more concern for the animals welfare, the fair is a bit of a mess as it is and the organisers don't seem to be able to control it properly at this stage.

Ballinasloe is a dump, there's nothing in it anymore so there's no way it will ever be cancelled when it brings in so much money.

Graces7 · 03-03-2017 10:41AM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

You don't believe they park up where they aren't supposed to?

We see it a lot here both in the city and the county, you just want to ignore what doesn't suit your sunshine and lollipops view of travellers.

Please, direct me? I live in Galway now. Show me where and I will go and see FOR MYSELF. I am not accepting gossip etc .

And no way do I have a "sunshine and lollipops" view of anyone! As I have said I treat all the same. If there is trouble eg violence I involve the Gardai
If someone ill treats a critter, I call the right authorities. Whether they are travellers, the man next door...

I do not ask their origin etc and do not accuse them of anything because they are travellers and that is the important distinction here.

You are making wild and far ranging unfounded statement about one kind of person.

Graces7 · 03-03-2017 10:43AM

Deleted User wrote: »

It was fairly unequivocal.

I find that ridiculous. To think the prospect of travellers getting some recognition now means we must treat all children the same and throw out any suggestion of an education system to meet the needs of the poor, the disadvantaged, those with special needs and yes, those children from a background that may have had difficulties with the system such as travellers.

I'd be in favour of a child centric approach myself, rather than "do we like their parents". If that means giving some children support, then so be it.

And teach all the children not to discriminate so this stops .

Graces7 · 03-03-2017 10:44AM

elefant wrote: »

Which is what I said. All Irish children should have access to support if they need it, regardless of who their parents are. I don't see any reason there needs to be separate funding for traveller education.

You have read this thread and you can still ask that? :eek:

elefant · 03-03-2017 10:45AM

Graces7 wrote: »

You have read this thread and you can still ask that? :eek:

I'm not sure what you're getting at.

03-03-2017 11:54AM

end of the road wrote: »

Mick Wallace got voted in because he is a good man who cares deeply for the people. He is a man of the people.

Cares about this violent toe rag Leon Wright more than his victims it seems when he showed up in court to support him. In 2014, Wright, who has 84 previous convictions, including 30 assaults, four Garda assaults, robberies and firearms offences, received a six-year sentence with the final two suspended for stabbing two people in random attacks. Imagine being stabbed randomly as you go about your business with your mother or partner or children. I've personally worked with Leon Wright and it's unnerving having to deal with him because ,ya know, he might carve your aul face up. But yep let's shift the blame elsewhere and make it our fault and defend him like Man O' The People Wallace. If you put that riot suit on or hold that shield, you're discriminating.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/tds-wallace-and-daly-in-court-to-support-criminal-leon-wright-who-was-cleared-of-assaulting-a-prison-officer-35144741.html

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjl_r_rlLrSAhXMDcAKHWZUCLYQFggfMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thejournal.ie%2Fleon-wright-wallace-daly-3035365-Oct2016%2F&usg=AFQjCNGSqWB-oHyCQOju3y2Yfxng8OY5ig&sig2=nySznighKi7GGMVVKHH-Xg

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjl_r_rlLrSAhXMDcAKHWZUCLYQFgglMAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbuzz.ie%2Fmick-wallace-defends-support-of-notorious-prisoner%2F&usg=AFQjCNGbcm33TjCNbrvw76duKivyrxYJcw&sig2=zvOCcAxT1jCTRWgspBpvJQ

whisky_galore · 03-03-2017 11:55AM

Noddyholder wrote: »

Tell me Galway guy do you think the balinaslo horse fair should be stopped, it brings in aprox 8 million to the local community, in which its badly needed, as the town its self seems to be dieing, I have been there many many times and despite the trouble that certainly does erupt,like at all concerts and all major outdoor gigs, it's great for the craic and fun, for those that don't know about it, it's the king of horse fairs in this country, and it's majority attending are travellers, I have also been to Appleby horse fair in England which is the equivalent, and also brings in more needed revenue,
Ah I forgot I am not supposed to have any dealing with traveler's sure what would I know.
Sorry for typo I on phone.

I suppose they need some sort of an outlet to sell high quality bloodstock *sniggers*

And sulky racing on roads has been a 'tradition' now for, what, 20 years?

AnGaelach · 03-03-2017 12:01PM

Noddyholder wrote: »

Tell me Galway guy do you think the balinaslo horse fair should be stopped, it brings in aprox 8 million to the local community, in which its badly needed, as the town its self seems to be dieing, I have been there many many times and despite the trouble that certainly does erupt,like at all concerts and all major outdoor gigs, it's great for the craic and fun, for those that don't know about it, it's the king of horse fairs in this country, and it's majority attending are travellers, I have also been to Appleby horse fair in England which is the equivalent, and also brings in more needed revenue,
Ah I forgot I am not supposed to have any dealing with traveler's sure what would I know.
Sorry for typo I on phone.

Yeah, a horse fair that lasts a few days every year is exactly the same as travellers living somewhere 24/7.

Help!!!! · 03-03-2017 01:26PM

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Tbh I wasn't sure what your point was. I get you now. I voted yes. Obviously it exists or at least it exists in posters minds. Someone suggested ethnic cleansing here. I say it's bigotry and hate speech but the poster would suggest that it's pc gone mad. Now is there political correctness there or am I just stating a fact. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

Or maybe he was just making a joke :rolleyes: I dont think anyone really thinks like this

Help!!!! · 03-03-2017 01:29PM

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Technically the law sees them as both. Travellers are protected under racism laws now. I'm sure that will open up a whole new debate because most people think you have to be a different race to the person you are being racist to. If this were the case English couldn't be racist towards Irish but obviously they can and we are protected in the UK under racism law

They are not a race, they are still white so protected under the same laws as everyone else

jmayo · 03-03-2017 01:33PM

end of the road wrote: »

i couldn't care a less why they don't want them, they are open to the public so they will put up and shut up.
if they won't serve people because traveler/black/whatever, then they have to be dealt with. pubs and hotels have been playing the victim for to long, their status in this country will never return to what it was and they will just have to move on. their services are availible cheeper via other means.

Actually the bit in bold sums you up perfectly.

You don't care less about lots of people in this country.

That is why you are very much a traveller apologist and a "refugee/migrant" supporter.

You probably won't be affected by travellers so you don't give a shyte how it affects other people.

Why would you as a publican or hotelier allow in a bunch of people who have a high likelihood of fighting and wrecking the place.

You can't backup your assertion above that the criminality listed such as riots resulting out of family feuds are also issues within the settled community.

end of the road wrote: »

Mick Wallace got voted in because he is a good man who cares deeply for the people. he is a man of the people and isn't pc as pc doesn't exist. i disagree with him on repealing the trespass laws.

You really are something else.
Yes a man of the people who thought taxes were optional, you know something he could withhold so he could keep his business going.

No wonder he is fond of travellers.

Yes of course PC doesn't exist in your world. :rolleyes:

What is your opinion on muppets existing ?

oneilla wrote: »

Thre were very extreme cuts to travellers education supports. Maybe you missed this.

Did the travellers notice ?

Water John · 03-03-2017 02:00PM

I'd have no problem with a developmental plan, with a focus on educational milestones being put together by the state with the Traveller Community.

If Travellers are interested in moving forward to a sustainable lifestyle, then education is the only means.
The figures at present don't look good.

It cannot be all give by the state. It has to be matched by certain agreed measurable targets being attained.

Wheeliebin30 · 03-03-2017 02:08PM

Seen them holding one of those horse races on the m7 last week at 730 in the morning.

Holding up all the traffic and so dangerous as cars had to slow down all of a sudden.

How do they get away with it?

ScumLord · 03-03-2017 02:17PM

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Seen them holding one of those horse races on the m7 last week at 730 in the morning.

Holding up all the traffic and so dangerous as cars had to slow down all of a sudden.

How do they get away with it?

Horses are faster than garda cars.

JamboMac · 03-03-2017 02:18PM

I would like to advise people to not engage with certain trolls who are just trying to cause an argument or frustrate you and get you banned. I have reported but told nothing will be done about this person.

osarusan · 03-03-2017 02:20PM

Help!!!! wrote: »

They are not a race, they are still white so protected under the same laws as everyone else

Racism law also includes nationalities, ethnicities and ethnic minorities among other things.

jimgoose · 03-03-2017 02:21PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Horses are faster than garda cars.

Prob'ly faster than a Honda Dopeville, anyway! :pac:

nelly17 · 03-03-2017 02:25PM

I've read most of this thread and I'm still none the wiser as to what the statement actually means in real terms - we seem to be going off on a lot of tangents about behaviour

Yourself isit · 03-03-2017 02:26PM

travellers already have white privilege, it seems odd to give them more privilege.

jackofalltrades · 03-03-2017 02:27PM

Graces7 wrote: »

Bare knuckle fighting? Mostly organised by non traveller men who make a lot of money off the travellers.

I'd love to see an independent source for that claim.

Education? When folk are moving around can you swear the children are not at school elsewhere? This happens with military families too by the way.

It been acknowledged by the Department of Education that traveller children attend school less and drop out early.

ScumLord · 03-03-2017 02:29PM

Yourself isit wrote: »

travellers already have white privilege, it seems odd to give them more privilege.

White privilege isn't satisfactory when everyone else is white too. It only really works if you have nonwhite people to lord it over.

Yourself isit · 03-03-2017 02:37PM

ScumLord wrote: »

White privilege isn't satisfactory when everyone else is white too. It only really works if you have nonwhite people to lord it over.

But we do these days.

Yourself isit · 03-03-2017 02:40PM

I'm also confused about something else.

Claim:
Race is a social construct not a biological fact.

Claim:
Travelers are a distinct ethnicity because they genetically differentiated a mere 1,000-500 years ago.

ScumLord · 03-03-2017 02:42PM

Yourself isit wrote: »

I'm also confused about something else.

Claim:
Race is a social construct not a biological fact.

Claim:
Travelers are a distinct ethnicity because they genetically differentiated a mere 1,000-500 years ago.

It's not about race, it's about culture. Just like Irish people are probably more or less genetically identical to British people, we're still have a different culture or like to think we are.

Water John · 03-03-2017 02:44PM

Ethnic Status, could Cork people claim similar?
Genuine question as to what the difference would be?

mynamejeff · 03-03-2017 03:08PM

jackofalltrades wrote: »

I'd love to see an independent source for that claim.
It been acknowledged by the Department of Education that traveller children attend school less and drop out early.

well you wont ,
because its untrue
as in a lie , it is false
made up , baseless in fact

like a lot of the statements on this thread

jackofalltrades · 03-03-2017 03:21PM

nelly17 wrote: »

I've read most of this thread and I'm still none the wiser as to what the statement actually means in real terms - we seem to be going off on a lot of tangents about behaviour

It's not really clear what could happen next.
Here's a few points from a leaflet on Ethnicity on the Irish Traveller Movement website.

Employment:
• Traveller Economy - value placed on Travellers who trade, deal in scrap/horses as a way of making a living not a way of crime.
• Sometimes Travellers don’t get jobs because they are Travellers. We would have more protection under the current law to challenge this and could even see the introduction of positive discrimination laws
that encourage employers to provide jobs to Travellers through government funded schemes.

Health:
• Because Traveller Culture would be recognised Traveller’s living conditions could improve, therefore Travellers’ health could improve.
• Traveller culture could be included in design/delivery of health services.
• Travellers could live longer.

Politics:
In Romania, Hungary and Roma Gypsies are recognised as an ethnic minority group so the government there have to keep places for Roma gypsies in their Government. The same could happen in Ireland if Traveller Ethnicity was recognised.

Accommodation:
• Nomadism would be recognised. We could use our status as an ethnic minority to campaign and put pressure on the government to create laws that respect the Traveller culture and strike down laws that attack our culture.
• Local authorities are already obliged to provide proper Traveller accommodation but have failed to do so. If Travellers were recognised as an ethnic minority we could put pressure on Councils to provide this accommodation by using international law as a campaign and lobbying tool

Culture:
• Government would have to protect Traveller Culture from dying out. They may provide funds to keep travelling alive, for the teaching of Cant to Traveller Children etc.

Education:
• Traveller Culture may be recognised in schools.
• Traveller Culture may be taught to all children in schools.
• More Travellers may stay on in education.
• Children whose families travel may not lose out on education

Settled people will have to increasingly bend over backwards to pay for this unsustainable way of life.
Also expect more resistance to laws that could affect travellers.
And possibly more confrontations like what was seen in Carrickmines.
As local authorities could be put under more pressure to provide traveller accommodation.

end of the road · 03-03-2017 03:51PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

It's not hearsay, it's from someone who works within the system.

mentioned by someone with a known hatred of travelers among many other groups. so, yeah, i think, your person who works within the system has been made up by you.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

You don't believe they park up where they aren't supposed to?

We see it a lot here both in the city and the county, you just want to ignore what doesn't suit your sunshine and lollipops view of travellers.

nope, she just wishes to ignore hearsay made up by persons with an agenda. pretty simple.

whisky_galore wrote: »

I suppose they need some sort of an outlet to sell high quality bloodstock *sniggers*

And sulky racing on roads has been a 'tradition' now for, what, 20 years?

well demand the gards enforce the law, then. simple.

jmayo wrote: »

Why would you as a publican or hotelier allow in a bunch of people who have a high likelihood of fighting and wrecking the place.

because it's your job, and because it's against the law to refuse them on the basis of traveler, which lets be honest, is the majority reason for refusal. if you don't like it, shut down and open a business that deals little with the public. otherwise put up and shut up.

jmayo wrote: »

You can't backup your assertion above that the criminality listed such as riots resulting out of family feuds are also issues within the settled community.

riots aren't a traveler speciffic issue. shooting people is another way to sort out feuds, carried out a lot by settled members of the community, who are involved in criminal gangs.

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Seen them holding one of those horse races on the m7 last week at 730 in the morning.

Holding up all the traffic and so dangerous as cars had to slow down all of a sudden.

How do they get away with it?

probably because nobody called the gards?

Does anyone know what the ethnic Traveller Status statement actually means?

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