Does anyone know what the ethnic Traveller Status statement actually means?

Galwayguy35

jackofalltrades wrote: »

It's not really clear what could happen next.
Here's a few points from a leaflet on Ethnicity on the Irish Traveller Movement website.


Settled people will have to increasingly bend over backwards to pay for this unsustainable way of life.
Also expect more resistance to laws that could affect travellers.
And possibly more confrontations like what was seen in Carrickmines.
As local authorities could be put under more pressure to provide traveller accommodation.

Seeing as Europe was so keen to see this ethnic status recognised let them fund all those things listed there.

jackofalltrades

jackofalltrades wrote: »

And possibly more confrontations like what was seen in Carrickmines.
As local authorities could be put under more pressure to provide traveller accommodation.

I remember the Carrickmines tragedy. I had to think about what you evidently recall, people upset about planning or something wasn't it?

As for local authorities, they have provided 54 out of the 1,000 sites envisaged in the 1990s. That was noted when the findings about the denial of human rights in accommodation was made last year. That doesn't suggest like they are being put under too much pressure. Gee, imagine if they like got it up to 10% or 15% of the target?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/europe-traveller-evictions-a-violation-of-human-rights-by-government-399671.html

whisky_galore

end of the road wrote: »

well demand the gards enforce the law, then. simple.

Lol.
You are really living on another planet.


http://connachttribune.ie/gardai-saddled-with-e80k-horse-fair-bill-087/

ScumLord

whisky_galore wrote: »

Lol.
You are really living on another planet.


http://connachttribune.ie/gardai-saddled-with-e80k-horse-fair-bill-087/

It hard to know what to make of that. How does it compare to a similar event that would have a garda presence?

Galwayguy35

end of the road wrote: »

mentioned by someone with a known hatred of travelers among many other groups. so, yeah, i think, your person who works within the system has been made up by you.



nope, she just wishes to ignore hearsay made up by persons with an agenda

Strong words there about me.

So who are these groups that I hate?

Means Of Escape

ScumLord wrote: »

It hard to know what to make of that. How does it compare to a similar event that would have a garda presence?

Recouped by taxes paid by event organisers at other events
Now a traveller horse dealing event well ..............

topper75

I would endorse the views expressed by the renowned painter at the end of this article (relevant section quoted.) The people behind this decision probably also made the mistake of conflating a lifestyle and a culture.

While Limerick's bid last year to be the European Capital of Culture in 2020 was claimed by Galway, Shinnors believes “a lot of boll***s goes on there as well” within certain arts committees, and perhaps even within the selection committee itself.

“I think one of their gripes were 'Why don't we have more inclusion with the Travelling community?' 'Feck it', says I, 'how much more do you want to include them and they don't want to be included'?

“The word culture is abused and over-used. Travellers don't have a culture - they have a lifestyle. Drinking culture isn't a culture - it's a lifestyle. It's overused in the same way that the word love is, in many ways, or specifically 'making love'."

Full article:
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/231625/rembrandt-would-struggle-in-today-s-art-market-says-limerick-artist-john-shinnors.html

There is a certain ugly irony to the fact that less then twelve months after the Irish state celebrated the proclamation of 1916 (not a legal doc I know but the founding document of the republic nonetheless) that aspired to us "cherishing all the children of the nation equally" we have the same state singling out a group as having a special status within the state. This most anti-Republican principle yields anomalies such as the House of Lords. What a dodgy principle they have set here. I hope for the sake of fairness it is some day rolled back.

jackofalltrades

Deleted User wrote: »

I remember the Carrickmines tragedy. I had to think about what you evidently recall, people upset about planning or something wasn't it?

You know exactly what I'm talking about.
Go try winding up someone else who isn't wise to your debating style.

jmayo

end of the road wrote: »

nope, she just wishes to ignore hearsay made up by persons with an agenda. pretty simple.

And what about your agendas ?

end of the road wrote: »

because it's your job, and because it's against the law to refuse them on the basis of traveler, which lets be honest, is the majority reason for refusal. if you don't like it, shut down and open a business that deals little with the public. otherwise put up and shut up.

So really somebody running a business should take on clients that are possibly could be be damaging to said business.
So you force people to take additional risks ?

I would like to see you use a similar argument with insurance companies when it comes to insuring property that is liable to flooding.

end of the road wrote: »

riots aren't a traveler speciffic issue. shooting people is another way to sort out feuds, carried out a lot by settled members of the community, who are involved in criminal gangs.

Yeah there are always riots between families to settle financial disputes.
Do you seriously believe the tripe you post.

You do know you have just equated travellers and their feuds where they often can end up shooting each other to criminal gangs shooting each other in their feuds.
Thank you for making a point a lot of us are trying to make.

QED.

end of the road

whisky_galore wrote: »

Lol.
You are really living on another planet.


http://connachttribune.ie/gardai-saddled-with-e80k-horse-fair-bill-087/

incorrect, i'm living on earth. we have a force charged with enforcing the law, it is their job and duty to do it. if they aren't doing it, then demand they do. that is what they are there for.

DavidLyons_

end of the road wrote: »

whisky_galore wrote: »

Lol.
You are really living on another planet.


http://connachttribune.ie/gardai-saddled-with-e80k-horse-fair-bill-087/

incorrect, i'm living on earth. we have a force charged with enforcing the law, it is their job and duty to do it. if they aren't doing it, then demand they do. that is what they are there for.

So much wrong with this. You have to be a wind up. If not, what a disgusting, socially irresponsible attitude to have. What about personal responsibility!?!

end of the road

DavidLyons_ wrote: »

So much wrong with this. You have to be a wind up. If not, what a disgusting, socially irresponsible attitude to have. What about personal responsibility!?!

so it's not the job of the police to enforce the law? do you actually know what you are commenting on?

Help!!!!

end of the road wrote: »

so it's not the job of the police to enforce the law? do you actually know what you are commenting on?

So do you think committing crimes OK if you can get away with it??

DavidLyons_

end of the road wrote: »

DavidLyons_ wrote: »

So much wrong with this. You have to be a wind up. If not, what a disgusting, socially irresponsible attitude to have. What about personal responsibility!?!

so it's not the job of the police to enforce the law? do you actually know what you are commenting on?

I certainly do. Shameful, disgraceful attitude. I am not surprised though. You are so out of touch with reality it would be hilarious if it weren't so disturbing that you actually believe the drivel you post. Pitiful.

end of the road

DavidLyons_ wrote: »

I certainly do. Shameful, disgraceful attitude. I am not surprised though. You are so out of touch with reality it would be hilarious if it weren't so disturbing that you actually believe the drivel you post. Pitiful.

what is disturbing about saying it is the gards job to enforce the law, and that if they don't or people feel they aren't that they should demand they do?

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

what is disturbing about saying it is the gards job to enforce the law, and that if they don't or people feel they aren't that they should demand they do?

And its peoples responsibility to respect and obey the law too. The gardai are severely underesourced and from hearing experience of many robberies around our area they seemingly just dont want to know.

ScumLord

Help!!!! wrote: »

So do you think committing crimes OK if you can get away with it??

I don't know how you could end up thinking that when he says it's the police's job to enforce the law.

The article doesn't say anything other than a cost. It's not compared to the cost of running any other event. It doesn't say there was a load of crime. That article on it's own doesn't really tell us a whole lot about anything.

Has there traditionally been a lot of crime at these things (other than under the table dealing, as in violent crime)?

Help!!!!

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't know how you could end up thinking that when he says it's the police's job to enforce the law.

The article doesn't say anything other than a cost. It's not compared to the cost of running any other event. It doesn't say there was a load of crime. That article on it's own doesn't really tell us a whole lot about anything.

Has there traditionally been a lot of crime at these things (other than under the table dealing, as in violent crime)?

EOTR is always saying its up to the police to enforce the law when anyone on here says about crime in the travelling community or its revenue needs to go looking for tax from the travelling community when anyone mentions they dont pay tax. It seems its everyone elses fault.
So we might as well all commit crimes or not pay taxes if we go by EOTR because the police/revenue have to come to stop us committing crimes & make us pay taxes

ScumLord

Help!!!! wrote: »

EOTR is always saying its up to the police to enforce the law when anyone on here says about crime in the travelling community or its revenue needs to go looking for tax from the travelling community when anyone mentions they dont pay tax. It seems its everyone elses fault.
So we might as well all commit crimes or not pay taxes if we go by EOTR because the police/revenue have to come to stop us committing crimes & make us pay taxes

Asking these people to just stop doing crime has zero chance of working. They have a culture of setting themselves apart from the general population and will never willfully take part in the tax system.

People don't change unless they're forced to. Pointing out that fact isn't supporting criminality it's just pointing out how things have usually gone in the past.

If they're breaking the law arrest them. The fact is they're probably not good at hiding these things, the guards know what's going on they're just unsure how they should proceed. We're ignoring them because dealing with them is difficult.

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

And its peoples responsibility to respect and obey the law too. The gardai are severely underesourced and from hearing experience of many robberies around our area they seemingly just dont want to know.

none of that changes the facts of what i stated. none of that makes what i stated incorrect or "disturbing" as one poster called it.

Help!!!! wrote: »

EOTR is always saying its up to the police to enforce the law when anyone on here says about crime in the travelling community or its revenue needs to go looking for tax from the travelling community when anyone mentions they dont pay tax. It seems its everyone elses fault.
So we might as well all commit crimes or not pay taxes if we go by EOTR because the police/revenue have to come to stop us committing crimes & make us pay taxes

people make more of an issue of travelers not paying tax, dispite people in the settled community not paying tax, or doing things on the side. they then claim that travelers get away with non-payment of tax just because the people claiming so happen to receive a letter from revenue because they didn't pay their taxes on time, and dispite those in the settled community who do things on the side often getting away with it as well. so i am reminding them that it is revenue's job to enforce the tax rules, and they will enforce what they can when they can.

Means Of Escape

end of the road wrote: »

incorrect, i'm living on earth. we have a force charged with enforcing the law, it is their job and duty to do it. if they aren't doing it, then demand they do. that is what they are there for.

The sulky race on the Cork road
Despite requests to stop and intervention by the Gardai in their vehicles the racers REFUSED to cheers and roars from to travellers in the vans
So if you are dealing with this level of indifference can you propose what you would have seen as a more effective way to enforce the laws on that day ???

DavidLyons_

Help!!!! wrote: »

EOTR is always saying its up to the police to enforce the law when anyone on here says about crime in the travelling community or its revenue needs to go looking for tax from the travelling community when anyone mentions they dont pay tax. It seems its everyone elses fault.
So we might as well all commit crimes or not pay taxes if we go by EOTR because the police/revenue have to come to stop us committing crimes & make us pay taxes

The Gardai are stretched to the limit. The tax payers of our country contribute handsomely to fund their activities. Our taxes also fund social welfare etc. Lawless, social welfare grabbing scum tend to make the job of the Gardai to protect the decent people of this country (vulnerable, elderly, rural folk for example) that much harder. Apologists for these scum should hang their heads in shame. Embarrassing and disturbing to think they mean what they post. I'll reiterate, those who are defending travellers on here have had little or no real contact with them.

Commotion Ocean

Try to move one off your property - racist.

Call the guards if they rob you - racist.

Complain about rubbish they leave -racist.

If they break up your pub - your racist, they're entitled to do it.

ScumLord

Means Of Escape wrote: »

The sulky race on the Cork road
Despite requests to stop and intervention by the Gardai in their vehicles the racers REFUSED to cheers and roars from to travellers in the vans
So if you are dealing with this level of indifference can you propose what you would have seen as a more effective way to enforce the laws on that day ???

The simple answer is arrest them. Of course there would need to be a strong garda presence, the fear would be they'll attack the guards. But the people doing those "races" know full well the guards are afraid of them. So they do what they like. If the law was enforced and they knew the law would be enforced they'd have no choice but to follow the law.

end of the road

Means Of Escape wrote: »

The sulky race on the Cork road
Despite requests to stop and intervention by the Gardai in their vehicles the racers REFUSED to cheers and roars from to travellers in the vans
So if you are dealing with this level of indifference can you propose what you would have seen as a more effective way to enforce the laws on that day ???

more resources and inforce the law. simple. it can be done, it is the duty of the authorities to do it.

DavidLyons_ wrote: »

The Gardai are stretched to the limit. The tax payers of our country contribute handsomely to fund their activities. Our taxes also fund social welfare etc. Lawless, social welfare grabbing scum tend to make the job of the Gardai to protect the decent people of this country (vulnerable, elderly, rural folk for example) that much harder. Apologists for these scum should hang their heads in shame. Embarrassing and disturbing to think they mean what they post. I'll reiterate, those who are defending travellers on here have had little or no real contact with them.

wrong. many of us have had lots of contact, both good and bad. you won't be able to prove otherwise.

DavidLyons_

end of the road wrote: »

Means Of Escape wrote: »

The sulky race on the Cork road
Despite requests to stop and intervention by the Gardai in their vehicles the racers REFUSED to cheers and roars from to travellers in the vans
So if you are dealing with this level of indifference can you propose what you would have seen as a more effective way to enforce the laws on that day ???

more resources and inforce the law. simple. it can be done, it is the duty of the authorities to do it.

DavidLyons_ wrote: »

The Gardai are stretched to the limit. The tax payers of our country contribute handsomely to fund their activities. Our taxes also fund social welfare etc. Lawless, social welfare grabbing scum tend to make the job of the Gardai to protect the decent people of this country (vulnerable, elderly, rural folk for example) that much harder. Apologists for these scum should hang their heads in shame. Embarrassing and disturbing to think they mean what they post. I'll reiterate, those who are defending travellers on here have had little or no real contact with them.

wrong. many of us have had lots of contact, both good and bad. you won't be able to prove otherwise.

And you certainly can't prove that you have. However, your posts suggest very strongly that you have never had any contact with any travellers and that's enough for me!

end of the road

DavidLyons_ wrote: »

And you certainly can't prove that you have. However, your posts suggest very strongly that you have never had any contact with any travellers and that's enough for me!

well i have had lots of contact, both good and bad. so what isn't the case can't be enough for you as you are wrong.

Help!!!!

ScumLord wrote: »

Asking these people to just stop doing crime has zero chance of working. They have a culture of setting themselves apart from the general population and will never willfully take part in the tax system.

People don't change unless they're forced to. Pointing out that fact isn't supporting criminality it's just pointing out how things have usually gone in the past.

If they're breaking the law arrest them. The fact is they're probably not good at hiding these things, the guards know what's going on they're just unsure how they should proceed. We're ignoring them because dealing with them is difficult.

& so they get abuse from settled people because of this & rightly so. If people stopped crying racist or anything else every time people speak out about them then the Gardai might start arresting them.
Travellers may not be educated but they are on another level when it comes to " street smarts " so people have to stop with the whole " a sure they didnt get a good start in life " " its their culture " blah blah blah otherwise they are not going to help themselves either

end of the road

Help!!!! wrote: »

& so they get abuse from settled people because of this & rightly so.

not rightly so when people who aren't guilty of anything are getting abuse because "traveler"

Means Of Escape

end of the road wrote: »

not rightly so when people who aren't guilty of anything are getting abuse because "traveler"

So you would happily embrace a traveller family ,recommended by Pavee point ,if they moved into the house beside you without batting an eyelid oe having any concerns ?