Does anyone know what the ethnic Traveller Status statement actually means?

DavidLyons_

end of the road wrote: »

DavidLyons_ wrote: »

And you certainly can't prove that you have. However, your posts suggest very strongly that you have never had any contact with any travellers and that's enough for me!

well i have had lots of contact, both good and bad. so what isn't the case can't be enough for you as you are wrong.

It's enough alright.

end of the road

Means Of Escape wrote: »

So you would happily embrace a traveller family ,recommended by Pavee point ,if they moved into the house beside you without batting an eyelid oe having any concerns ?

i will treat anyone with respect unless they do something to me. i would have no problem with any family moving in beside me unless there is actual proof of that particular family being of concern. whether one is a traveler or not makes no difference to me, it's one's actions that will determin whether i have an issue with them.

DavidLyons_ wrote: »

It's enough alright.

enough for what? to prove you are wrong? great. glad we got that sorted

Means Of Escape

end of the road wrote: »

i will treat anyone with respect unless they do something to me. i would have no problem with any family moving in beside me unless there is actual proof of that particular family being of concern. whether one is a traveler or not makes no difference to me, it's one's actions that will determin whether i have an issue with them.



enough for what? to prove you are wrong? great. glad we got that sorted[/quote

If they didn't live in the house but in two caravans in their driveway would that be a concern ?
Or if they were a Euro nomadic family whereby they left 6 months of the year and put metal grids on all the windows and doors akin to a prison ,would that be of concern ?
How about their right to have 6 dogs fully licences crapping on the footpath ?

end of the road

Means Of Escape wrote: »

end of the road wrote: »

i will treat anyone with respect unless they do something to me. i would have no problem with any family moving in beside me unless there is actual proof of that particular family being of concern. whether one is a traveler or not makes no difference to me, it's one's actions that will determin whether i have an issue with them.



enough for what? to prove you are wrong? great. glad we got that sorted[/quote

If they didn't live in the house but in two caravans in their driveway would that be a concern ?
Or if they were a Euro nomadic family whereby they left 6 months of the year and put metal grids on all the windows and doors akin to a prison ,would that be of concern ?
How about their right to have 6 dogs fully licences crapping on the footpath ?

that is what the gards are there for, to deal with any breaches of the law. if i believe someone is breaching the law, the issue will be raised by me with the authorities, and i will keep raising it until it is dealt with.

Means Of Escape

Graces7 wrote: »

[/B]

Proof?

Oh and I am living in a rental where the farmer up the lane was trying to annex the garden here as he thought the house was abandoned... Irish farmer, non traveller.. caught him just in time

Over to you! Or is that checkmate?

No it's not
Rent a house in Rathkeale co Limerick and let us know how you get on after 2 months
Anyone in their right mind would be crying into their breakfast of a traveller family moved next door to them
Within the first year they would be scratching their heads as to why 3 houses are up for sale on their street and it would dawn on them that the value of their house is gone down the crapper
As was pointed out by a poster on the journal had one TD opposed the new bill he would have had a seat for life


Most people's opinions are borne out of experiences

end of the road

Means Of Escape wrote: »

No it's not
Rent a house in Rathkeale co Limerick and let us know how you get on after 2 months
Anyone in their right mind would be crying into their breakfast of a traveller family moved next door to them
Within the first year they would be scratching their heads as to why 3 houses are up for sale on their street and it would dawn on them that the value of their house is gone down the crapper
As was pointed out by a poster on the journal had one TD opposed the new bill he would have had a seat for life


Most people's opinions are borne out of experiences

experiences are just used as the excuse. the real reason is simply that some people wish to hate someone, and travelers are probably that last group it is exceptible for some to hate. they can get away with it because few will challenge them but they are only showing themselves up for what they are. some sections in ireland have a history of hatred, whether it's single mothers, children born out of wedlock, black/brown people, travelers, muslims. hatred can vary from group to group but the history cannot be denied. thankfully many of us don't take part in this hatred and we are growing and modernising.

Professor Moriarty

end of the road wrote: »

experiences are just used as the excuse. the real reason is simply that some people wish to hate someone, and travelers are probably that last group it is exceptible for some to hate. they can get away with it because few will challenge them but they are only showing themselves up for what they are. ireland has a history of hatred, whether it's single mothers, children born out of wedlock, black/brown people, travelers, muslims. hatred can vary from group to group but the history cannot be denied. thankfully many of us don't take part in this hatred and we are growing and modernising.

Ireland has a history of hatred for Muslims?

Means Of Escape

end of the road wrote: »

experiences are just used as the excuse. the real reason is simply that some people wish to hate someone, and travelers are probably that last group it is exceptible for some to hate. they can get away with it because few will challenge them but they are only showing themselves up for what they are. ireland has a history of hatred, whether it's single mothers, children born out of wedlock, black/brown people, travelers, muslims. hatred can vary from group to group but the history cannot be denied. thankfully many of us don't take part in this hatred and we are growing and modernising.

No the population in general who won't tolerate the traveller culture because of its negative impact on society are being forced to swallow it .
Many sectors in society who have direct contact with the traveller community Garda , teachers , nurses etc would cite hundreds of incidents of this negative impact and it won't be founded on racism but fact derived from experience through direct contact

end of the road

Means Of Escape wrote: »

No the population in general who won't tolerate the traveller culture because of its negative impact on society are being forced to swallow it .
Many sectors in society who have direct contact with the traveller community Garda , teachers , nurses etc would cite hundreds of incidents of this negative impact and it won't be founded on racism but fact derived from experience through direct contact

they are not being forced to swallow anything. they are being forced not to discriminate against people because "traveler" or muslim and so on. that is right and correct, as we as a society need to keep modernising.

DanMurphy

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Ireland has a history of hatred for Muslims?

The utter stupidity of virtue signalling puzzles me too Professor.
So, our Defense Forces long history of protecting Muslim villages in South Lebanon and a myriad other Mid Eastern countries, costing many Irish lives and hundreds wounded (myself included) counts as ' Ireland having a long history of hating Muslims.'
On the contrary - we put our lives on the line to protect them, and our troops are still doing that to this day.

Yourself isit

end of the road wrote: »

they are not being forced to swallow anything. they are being forced not to discriminate against people because "traveler" or muslim and so on. that is right and correct, as we as a society need to keep modernising.

Nobody here mentioned Muslims. Or black and brown people.

I'm quite happy living beside an Indian doctor and working with many people who are not white. There's little or no segregation in Ireland.

I'd be worried about a traveller family though.

Professor Moriarty

DanMurphy wrote: »

The utter stupidity of virtue signalling puzzles me too Professor.
So, our Defense Forces long history of protecting Muslim villages in South Lebanon and a myriad other Mid Eastern countries, costing many Irish lives and hundreds wounded (myself included) counts as ' Ireland having a long history of hating Muslims.'
On the contrary - we put our lives on the line to protect them, and our troops are still doing that to this day.

You served your country and those who needed our help. Good for you. Sure, we have lots to loathe ourselves for, but we've often stood up for others too and we've often done the right thing.

Means Of Escape

end of the road wrote: »

they are not being forced to swallow anything. they are being forced not to discriminate against people because "traveler" or muslim and so on. that is right and correct, as we as a society need to keep modernising.

This bill will not improve society one iota
In fact it will only embolden those in the travelling community who treat others with contempt while being protected by the rights they will enjoy as an ethnic minority and these will be listed out whenever the same meet resistance to their culture .

Ask yourself why people discriminate against travellers and it will boil down to their behaviour in society .

One_Of_Shanks

I would have zero problem with any status that they get so long as they're brought to task for their taxes like the rest of us but that never seems to happen.

So there will always exist a bitterness towards them until they contribute in the same way the rest of us do.

Why that has never happened is the question. And until it does you'll never get an overwhelming acceptance.

My guess is that they're ok with that. I would be too if I didn't have to pay taxes. And if you can push yer luck and get away with a bit more then why not.
We're the fools.

mynamejeff

end of the road wrote: »

experiences are just used as the excuse. the real reason is simply that some people wish to hate someone, and travelers are probably that last group it is exceptible for some to hate. they can get away with it because few will challenge them but they are only showing themselves up for what they are. ireland has a history of hatred, whether it's single mothers, children born out of wedlock, black/brown people, travelers, muslims. hatred can vary from group to group but the history cannot be denied. thankfully many of us don't take part in this hatred and we are growing and modernising.

was there ever a more blindly liberal and pathetically self loathing statement made on boards ?

Im not sure eotr understands who the world works.

experiences are first had evidence of facts

really you are just diffing for reactions now and it got old a long time ago

end of the road

DanMurphy wrote: »

The utter stupidity of virtue signalling puzzles me too Professor.
So, our Defense Forces long history of protecting Muslim villages in South Lebanon and a myriad other Mid Eastern countries, costing many Irish lives and hundreds wounded (myself included) counts as ' Ireland having a long history of hating Muslims.'
On the contrary - we put our lives on the line to protect them, and our troops are still doing that to this day.

virtue signalling isn't a thing. it's another one of the buzz terms from that book. and yes sections of society always have had hatred for someone.

Means Of Escape wrote: »

This bill will not improve society one iota
In fact it will only embolden those in the travelling community who treat others with contempt while being protected by the rights they will enjoy as an ethnic minority and these will be listed out whenever the same meet resistance to their culture .

Ask yourself why people discriminate against travellers and it will boil down to their behaviour in society .

it's because they can discriminate. if we were to discriminate against lots of people on the basis of the behaviour of some then we would be discriminating against all and sundry. they discriminate against travelers because travelers. and they can get away with it. time will tell whether this new recognition will change anything.

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

I would have zero problem with any status that they get so long as they're brought to task for their taxes like the rest of us but that never seems to happen.

So there will always exist a bitterness towards them until they contribute in the same way the rest of us do.

Why that has never happened is the question. And until it does you'll never get an overwhelming acceptance.

My guess is that they're ok with that. I would be too if I didn't have to pay taxes. And if you can push yer luck and get away with a bit more then why not.
We're the fools.

it's nothing to do with taxes, as plenty in the settled community either are exempt from certain taxes or some do stuff on the side and don't declare it. it's just another excuse because there is no legitimate reason to be bitter toards, or discriminate against travelers, so a reason has to be found.

mynamejeff wrote: »

was there ever a more blindly liberal and pathetically self loathing statement made on boards ?

Im not sure eotr understands who the world works.

experiences are first had evidence of facts

really you are just diffing for reactions now and it got old a long time ago

nope, i have better things to do then "diffing for reactions" . you not liking my opinion doesn't make what you stated true. it's simply you not liking my opinion.

One_Of_Shanks

end of the road wrote: »

it's nothing to do with taxes, as plenty in the settled community either are exempt from certain taxes or some do stuff on the side and don't declare it. it's just another excuse because there is no legitimate reason to be bitter toards, or discriminate against travelers, so a reason has to be found.
.

Ah c'mon. Are you seriously saying that travellers pay their way in tax to the same degree as the "settled community"?

Really?

By all means go for it and say yes here. Go on!

end of the road

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

Ah c'mon. Are you seriously saying that travellers pay their way in tax to the same degree as the "settled community"?

Really?

By all means go for it and say yes here. Go on!

it's actually not relevant. or no more relevant then those in the settled community doing nixers or not paying their taxes. not paying tax is not paying tax, the fact some travelers don't is no different to anyone else who doesn't. it's no justification for discrimination, no justification exists. it is the job of revenue to deal with non-compliance of the tax rules.

One_Of_Shanks

end of the road wrote: »

it's actually not relevant. or no more relevant then those in the settled community doing nixers or not paying their taxes. not paying tax is not paying tax, the fact some travelers don't is no different to anyone else who doesn't. it's no justification for discrimination, no justification exists. it is the job of revenue to deal with non-compliance of the tax rules.

So that's a No then.

And yes its hugely relevant.

DavidLyons_

end of the road wrote: »

Means Of Escape wrote: »

So you would happily embrace a traveller family ,recommended by Pavee point ,if they moved into the house beside you without batting an eyelid oe having any concerns ?

i will treat anyone with respect unless they do something to me. i would have no problem with any family moving in beside me unless there is actual proof of that particular family being of concern. whether one is a traveler or not makes no difference to me, it's one's actions that will determin whether i have an issue with them.

DavidLyons_ wrote: »

It's enough alright.

enough for what? to prove you are wrong? great. glad we got that sorted

Your inaccurate, ill-informed posts are plenty of evidence. You've either never met a traveller or you are one. I'm happy enough with that assumption.

end of the road

DavidLyons_ wrote: »

Your inaccurate, ill-informed posts are plenty of evidence. You've either never met a traveller or you are one. I'm happy enough with that assumption.

i'm glad you are happy about being incorrect on both counts. usually when someone is incorrect they will admit it and we can move on. you are very different it seems.

um7y1h83ge06nx

This thread is hilarious.

Given that the modern state of Israel was created for Jews and Liberia was created in West Africa for slave descendents can we give Travelers one of our islands to form their own state?

After all they are different and thus need their own land.

Patricia Tinkling Sternum

Patricia Tinkling Sternum wrote: »

This thread is hilarious.

Given that the modern state of Israel was created for Jews and Liberia was created in West Africa for slave descendents can we give Travelers one of our islands to form their own state?

After all they are different and thus need their own land.

As we have provided 1/20th of the halting sites we intended to provide since the mid 90s and have been found to be in breach of basic human rights, don't think we'll be enabling them set up a country...

Galwayguy35

Deleted User wrote: »

As we have provided 1/20th of the halting sites we intended to provide since the mid 90s and have been found to be in breach of basic human rights, don't think we'll be enabling them set up a country...

Why should we provide travellers who are rich with anything?

Why can't the ones who can afford it pay for their own houses like everyone else?

Also how come Revenue never turn their attention to travellers and find out exactly who has money?

And the money is there, new cars and vans aren't cheap to buy.

whisky_galore

Deleted User wrote: »

As we have provided 1/20th of the halting sites we intended to provide since the mid 90s and have been found to be in breach of basic human rights, don't think we'll be enabling them set up a country...

No one wants halting sites in their area...can you think of reasons why? Answers on a postcard.

Galwayguy35

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Why should we provide travellers who are rich with anything?

We should not provide anyone who is rich with accommodation.

The law obliges us to provide accommodation for those who meet criteria, travellers, people on certain income levels etc. Our failings in the former, our miserable total of 54 sites provided to meet a need estimated at 1,000 in the 90s, and the manner in which they operate was assessed, and deemed to be in breach of human rights.

Galwayguy35

Deleted User wrote: »

We should not provide anyone who is rich with accommodation.

The law obliges us to provide accommodation for those who meet criteria, travellers, people on certain income levels etc. Our failings in the former, our miserable total of 54 sites provided to meet a need estimated at 1,000 in the 90s, and the manner in which they operate was assessed, and deemed to be in breach of human rights.

That doesn't answer my question, quite a few travellers are rich and others would be described as well off yet they are provided with social housing or halting sites are provided.

They say they want to be treated equally yet won't pay tax and Revenue turns a blind eye to it.

I'm guessing from your previous post you a solicitor or lawyer or imvolved in that profession to some degree so I'm wondering when cases involving travellers come to court do they pay for legal representation or is it provided for them.

I've a feeling it's the latter.

Graces7

DavidLyons_ wrote: »

The Gardai are stretched to the limit. The tax payers of our country contribute handsomely to fund their activities. Our taxes also fund social welfare etc. Lawless, social welfare grabbing scum tend to make the job of the Gardai to protect the decent people of this country (vulnerable, elderly, rural folk for example) that much harder. Apologists for these scum should hang their heads in shame. Embarrassing and disturbing to think they mean what they post. I'll reiterate, those who are defending travellers on here have had little or no real contact with them.[/QUOTE]

There ye go again... as a nearly 80 year old rural lady? I am not vulnerable and not in need of protection! REALLY!

Could use some fire wood cutting if you really want to help? No? OK. The next traveller along will do it for me

And again... not true . second bolded.

If you want to make an impression, choose some reality other than your blind unreasoning hatred?

Graces7

Commotion Ocean wrote: »

Try to move one off your property - racist.

Call the guards if they rob you - racist.

Complain about rubbish they leave -racist.

If they break up your pub - your racist, they're entitled to do it.

Hmmm.I called the Gardai when a man who I did not then knwo was a traveller assaulted me when I stopped him ill treating a horse. They came fast and they dealt with him effectively.

Same as when a local man offended. No difference.

Graces7

Means Of Escape wrote: »

end of the road wrote: »

i will treat anyone with respect unless they do something to me. i would have no problem with any family moving in beside me unless there is actual proof of that particular family being of concern. whether one is a traveler or not makes no difference to me, it's one's actions that will determin whether i have an issue with them.



enough for what? to prove you are wrong? great. glad we got that sorted[/quote

If they didn't live in the house but in two caravans in their driveway would that be a concern ?
Or if they were a Euro nomadic family whereby they left 6 months of the year and put metal grids on all the windows and doors akin to a prison ,would that be of concern ?
How about their right to have 6 dogs fully licences crapping on the footpath ?

Report them then! Plenty of nontraveller dogs do that