Boundary Extension for City?

BBM77 · 14-02-2017 11:11AM

Deiseen wrote: »

Sure, how can he recognise the need for this when the city does not even exist in his world? He'd much rather get stuck in a traffic jam in Dublin on his way to work/for a meal/for emergency heart surgery.

It won’t happen but I would agree with you in sorts. Personally I believe that the Waterford city metropolitan district as it is called since the council merger should be a local authority on its own. And county Waterford should be merged with county Kilkenny or Tipperary. County Waterford has much more in common in administrate terms with county Kilkenny and Tipperary than it has with the Waterford city which is urban and suburban. County Waterford, Kilkenny and Tipperary are all similar in that they are rural with county towns.

Squidvicious · 14-02-2017 11:29AM

BBM77 wrote: »

It won’t happen but I would agree with you in sorts. Personally I believe that the Waterford city metropolitan district as it is called since the council merger should be a local authority on its own. And county Waterford should be merged with county Kilkenny or Tipperary. County Waterford has much more in common in administrate terms with county Kilkenny and Tipperary than it has with the Waterford city which is urban and suburban. County Waterford, Kilkenny and Tipperary are all similar in that they are rural with county towns.

I'm not sure about how exactly would be best to reorganise our counties, but I certainly think that a wholesale reorganisation would be far better than just shifting the existing boundary a mile up the road. People say that it makes sense to put all of Ferrybank into Waterford but the fact is that our current county boundaries make no sense either. I see no point in being lumped in to a county that runs almost to Youghal. I've said it before but perhaps we could have much larger counties(e.g. one for the South-East as a whole) or alternatively have smaller units based on the nearest big town/city, like they have done in the North. Even if you accept that Waterford's boundary ought to be extended, the current proposed shift is really only tinkering at the edges and will surely satisfy nobody in Waterford while simultaneously annoying many in Kilkenny.

zulutango · 14-02-2017 11:45AM

Cabaal wrote: »

Much more chance of Carlow /Kilkenny merging then your idea I'm afraid.

Yes, I guess so. It is unfortunate for the people of Kilkenny and Waterford that this most sensible solution isn't even on the cards.

zulutango · 14-02-2017 11:49AM

Squidvicious wrote: »

I'm not sure about how exactly would be best to reorganise our counties, but I certainly think that a wholesale reorganisation would be far better than just shifting the existing boundary a mile up the road. People say that it makes sense to put all of Ferrybank into Waterford but the fact is that our current county boundaries make no sense either. I see no point in being lumped in to a county that runs almost to Youghal. I've said it before but perhaps we could have much larger counties(e.g. one for the South-East as a whole) or alternatively have smaller units based on the nearest big town/city, like they have done in the North. Even if you accept that Waterford's boundary ought to be extended, the current proposed shift is really only tinkering at the edges and will surely satisfy nobody in Waterford while simultaneously annoying many in Kilkenny.

This really is where the argument should be. If it was right to amalgamate Waterford City and County Councils, then why shouldn't it be right to amalgamate Waterford and Kilkenny?

azimuth17 · 14-02-2017 01:01PM

I agree. There should be an overarching regional government (I think the green Party proposed something like this) for the south east based on Waterford city. It is ironic that teh south east has teh same land mass and the same population as county Cork. They have a single voice and we.....? Well just read this forum. While waiting for Utopia, we have to deal with current reality. An independent commission has decided that a small part of Kilkenny, which was historically Waterford should be returned to Waterford AND the port should stay in co Kilkenny. End of argument?

Dunmoreroader · 14-02-2017 01:22PM

I've been trying to make out the exact route of the proposed new border from the ring road to the river. The report states that it follows the line of an existing minor tributary of the Suir.
Anyone got a map that shows this line exactly as its hard to make it out from the map in the report?

beazee · 14-02-2017 02:00PM

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

Anyone got a map that shows this line exactly as its hard to make it out from the map in the report?

Make it up yourself:

"It has chosen to recommend the designation of a new Boundary between the Authorities that will move the entire Electoral Area of Kilculliheen and those parts of the Electoral Areas of Aglish and Dunkitt contained within the Area of Interest that lie south of the of the N25 bypass to the control of Waterford Council. "

Boundary based on minor tributary is to the east.

Irishlad2014 · 14-02-2017 02:27PM

Deiseen wrote: »

road_high wrote: »

azimuth17 wrote: »

The posts from Road_High suggest that people "up north" near the Kilkenny county town don't think about Waterford that much, although the number of submissions that originated in every form from that area would contradict that. It is also patently obvious that Kilkenny (the county town) does not have another local authority clamped right up against its front door. Brian Cody suggested that rivalry should be confined to the sports field and I agree , but flag waving populists like Phil Hogan are not afraid to use the GAA analogy when it suits them. Road-high proves the adage that when not argued into a point of view , its hard to be argued out of it. No matter what anyone says or shows or thinks or proves the rebuttal is always the same ,usually coupled with disparaging remark(s) about Waterford city on any topic you care to choose. The historic boundaries (map) were there for centuries and the independent commission proposed a return to essentially those boundaries. Regardless of how the city might develop on that side of the river in the future, and it is inevitable courtesy of the massive investment in servicing land via the Waterford Waste Water Treatment facility in Gorteens, I don't see another boundary extension being feasible. AND remember, the Port of Waterford and its annual millions in rates (unspent in south Kilkenny) has been gifted to Co Kilkenny.

Yawn zzzz...it's ground hog day around here. Same old crap rehashed day in day out- honestly no one in Kilkenny carlow or Wexford is interested anymore.
The country is very small, we don't "have to" work with an obstinate Waterford if we don't want to. It's honestly not worth the hassle. There are other regional options and configurations.
Have to laugh at your "gifting"- it's a commercial enterprise that freely choose a co Kilkenny site as the best place to be- it wasn't some kind of gift from the unions.

Road high, to be fair you do come across better than Michael Kavangh and his insurmountable spelling mistakes BUT in the end, you cannot hide that you have the same bitterness deep down.

Nobody is making out that Waterford is New York city but it's not the wastleland that you and your county men make it out to be. As I said before, you scrape out the tourism (which we perform comparatively in) then name one sector that Kilkenny does better in than Waterford. Please do it.

Just regarding tourism, the 2015 figures might interest you check http://www.itic.ie/
Waterford out performing Kilkenny in revenue from overseas visitors.

beazee · 14-02-2017 02:30PM

Deiseen · 14-02-2017 02:37PM

Irishlad2014 wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

road_high wrote: »

azimuth17 wrote: »

The posts from Road_High suggest that people "up north" near the Kilkenny county town don't think about Waterford that much, although the number of submissions that originated in every form from that area would contradict that. It is also patently obvious that Kilkenny (the county town) does not have another local authority clamped right up against its front door. Brian Cody suggested that rivalry should be confined to the sports field and I agree , but flag waving populists like Phil Hogan are not afraid to use the GAA analogy when it suits them. Road-high proves the adage that when not argued into a point of view , its hard to be argued out of it. No matter what anyone says or shows or thinks or proves the rebuttal is always the same ,usually coupled with disparaging remark(s) about Waterford city on any topic you care to choose. The historic boundaries (map) were there for centuries and the independent commission proposed a return to essentially those boundaries. Regardless of how the city might develop on that side of the river in the future, and it is inevitable courtesy of the massive investment in servicing land via the Waterford Waste Water Treatment facility in Gorteens, I don't see another boundary extension being feasible. AND remember, the Port of Waterford and its annual millions in rates (unspent in south Kilkenny) has been gifted to Co Kilkenny.

Yawn zzzz...it's ground hog day around here. Same old crap rehashed day in day out- honestly no one in Kilkenny carlow or Wexford is interested anymore.
The country is very small, we don't "have to" work with an obstinate Waterford if we don't want to. It's honestly not worth the hassle. There are other regional options and configurations.
Have to laugh at your "gifting"- it's a commercial enterprise that freely choose a co Kilkenny site as the best place to be- it wasn't some kind of gift from the unions.

Road high, to be fair you do come across better than Michael Kavangh and his insurmountable spelling mistakes BUT in the end, you cannot hide that you have the same bitterness deep down.

Nobody is making out that Waterford is New York city but it's not the wastleland that you and your county men make it out to be. As I said before, you scrape out the tourism (which we perform comparatively in) then name one sector that Kilkenny does better in than Waterford. Please do it.

Just regarding tourism, the 2015 figures might interest you check http://www.itic.ie/
Waterford out performing Kilkenny in revenue from overseas visitors.

I'd mentioned this in a previous post that their numbers were slightly higher than ours but their spend was way less. Much appreciated to have it in a graphic image.

Can anyone tell me, and this is not being harsh, what does Kilkenny actually excel in? Agriculture? People have previously said that Kilkenny held up well during the downturn but has it ever really been booming?

I know we seem to have this idea that Kilkenny City is this boomtown but the figures generally say otherwise.

BBM77 · 14-02-2017 02:41PM

It will be interesting to see the effect better shopping in the city centre, the greenway and the new WIT Arena will have on the visitor numbers and spending. The three of these will up our games in terms of attracting visitors. We need more hotel rooms though big time.

BBM77 · 14-02-2017 02:52PM

Deiseen wrote: »

I'd mentioned this in a previous post that their numbers were slightly higher than ours but their spend was way less. Much appreciated to have it in a graphic image.

Can anyone tell me, and this is not being harsh, what does Kilkenny actually excel in? Agriculture? People have previously said that Kilkenny held up well during the downturn but has it ever really been booming?

I know we seem to have this idea that Kilkenny City is this boomtown but the figures generally say otherwise.

They were just childish insults thrown at Waterford because the boundary extension committee found in Waterford’s favour. A throw you’re toys out of the pram because you did not get your way kind of thing. The reason there was not a big loss of jobs in Kilkenny at the recession is because there was not any to lose in the first place. Same as yourself, I genuinely don’t mean to be harsh but the reality is Kilkenny is just a glorified commuter town.

azimuth17 · 14-02-2017 03:00PM

Kilkenny has an excellent retail and tourism proposition, Waterford's is improving daily from a low baseline, Wexford also excellent, but largely internal tourism (from Dublin?) but I think we would all be better off working together to get more people into the south east as a region rather than pushing individual places. When people say that the south east is wealthy, this is the traditional view based on land, but land forms a very small part of the modern economy. Unemployment in the south east is still around 10.5% which is the highest in the country as far as I know. Tourism is nice to have but is not a panacea or a substitute for a properly diversified economy.

hardybuck · 14-02-2017 03:07PM

What role does the South East Regional Assembly play? Are they even still in existence?

Harry Palmr · 14-02-2017 06:21PM

Waterford (well Tramore) is a bucket and spade destination for Dubs, we have no Quiet Man or Ryan's Daughter type cultural beacon to play on.

Deiseen · 14-02-2017 07:13PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Waterford (well Tramore) is a bucket and spade destination for Dubs, we have no Quiet Man or Ryan's Daughter type cultural beacon to play on.

Those previous figures are international visitors. I think we do quiet well in internal visits too though.

Michael Kavanagh · 14-02-2017 08:00PM

BBM77 wrote: »

They were just childish insults thrown at Waterford because the boundary extension committee found in Waterford’s favour. A throw you’re toys out of the pram because you did not get your way kind of thing. The reason there was not a big loss of jobs in Kilkenny at the recession is because there was not any to lose in the first place. Same as yourself, I genuinely don’t mean to be harsh but the reality is Kilkenny is just a glorified commuter town.

Diago lost two hundred fifty jobs between contractors employees, Roughly the biggest employers are Glanbia in kilkenny 700, local authorities around 700, Vhi health care 250 , state street international 300, banking 365 250, I don't know what the figures are for Taxback. com,

Deiseen · 15-02-2017 12:08AM

Michael Kavanagh wrote: »

BBM77 wrote: »

They were just childish insults thrown at Waterford because the boundary extension committee found in Waterford’s favour. A throw you’re toys out of the pram because you did not get your way kind of thing. The reason there was not a big loss of jobs in Kilkenny at the recession is because there was not any to lose in the first place. Same as yourself, I genuinely don’t mean to be harsh but the reality is Kilkenny is just a glorified commuter town.

Diago lost two hundred fifty jobs between contractors employees, Roughly the biggest employers are Glanbia in kilkenny 700, local authorities around 700, Vhi health care 250 , state street international 300, banking 365 250, I don't know what the figures are for Taxback. com,

That's it Michael? Funny that the second largest employer you mention is the local authority. Sure Bausch and Lomb employ 1,250 people in Waterford alone, that's almost the same amount as everything you mentioned there and it's only one company. You'll be mentioning the Kilkenny hurlers next as public servants in order to prop up the numbers.

road_high · 15-02-2017 12:38AM

Deiseen wrote: »

I'd mentioned this in a previous post that their numbers were slightly higher than ours but their spend was way less. Much appreciated to have it in a graphic image.

Can anyone tell me, and this is not being harsh, what does Kilkenny actually excel in? Agriculture? People have previously said that Kilkenny held up well during the downturn but has it ever really been booming?

I know we seem to have this idea that Kilkenny City is this boomtown but the figures generally say otherwise.

Gosh you're all more than a tad insecure arent you though? If Kilkenny is the insignificant place you guys like to keep telling yourself, why does every single thread in this Waterford page continually refer to Kilkenny, continually refer to and constantly compare yourselves to Kilkenny (to make yourselves feel better I guess). It almost certainly doesn't go the other way. You're obsessed by the place, obsessed by what Kilkenny people do, where they work, how they work etc etc
This thread has turned into a penis measuring contest it's hysterical but really illustrates why you will never be the cohesive centre of a SE region you crave to be. You all continually insult and belittle each and every part of the region to the nth degree (of which only 10% of the people even live in WD, indeed far more people live in co Wexford) (and you only have to look at the bile directed at Carlow and the IT, most of whom barely know where Waterford is. Or care).

Remind again why would anyone sane would want to work collaboratively with anything involving Waterford again? If you lot are represtative then Christ...They don't, its the reason st Luke's and Wexford general hospitals are now part of Dublin hospital groupings.

road_high · 15-02-2017 12:48AM

azimuth17 wrote: »

Glanbia did not want to build the €40 million treatment plant that would have been necessary to build the new plant at Ballyragget where they already have treatment issues. They sought a site with three requirements. 1, Near a port, 2. Access to treatment facilities of suitable size(Waterford Waste Water plant which you do not even acknowledge. 3 Be in co Kilkenny. Only the Gorteens site was suitable. Bending over backwards does not quite describe that exercise.

And by the way, I have to say that your posts reek of a terrible bitterness.
You still have not told me whether you support the 24/7 interventional cardiology service at UHW for the 500,000 people of the south east?

You're reading bitterness because it suits your narrative of victimhood. Something you were no doubt reared on. I call it reality.
My views on cardiology are irrelevant to this thread. Not sure why you keep obsessing over this. I'd like to think though if I did need specialist medical intervention I'd get the best care possible wherever the experts on such matters view as the best.

Michael Kavanagh · 15-02-2017 01:04AM

Deiseen wrote: »

That's it Michael? Funny that the second largest employer you mention is the local authority. Sure Bausch and Lomb employ 1,250 people in Waterford alone, that's almost the same amount as everything you mentioned there and it's only one company. You'll be mentioning the Kilkenny hurlers next as public servants in order to prop up the numbers.

What portion of those would be Waterford or from the south east, as regards employment in kilkenny I did not mention the factory in Ballyragget, or Bellview port I also did not mention Red mills, or Duggan steel a lot of sme around kilkenny like in Waterford. I was actually talking to a lady this evening from Waterford that moved her business to Thomastown five years ago due to the downturn had effected Waterford it was the best move made I know you will try tell something better. I couldn't really give a fiddlers about Waterford it does not come in to my daily thin king anything I need is in Kilkenny shops, restuarants, leisure centres . Looking forward to the new development in the old smithwicks site.

Deiseen · 15-02-2017 01:39AM

Michael Kavanagh wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

That's it Michael? Funny that the second largest employer you mention is the local authority. Sure Bausch and Lomb employ 1,250 people in Waterford alone, that's almost the same amount as everything you mentioned there and it's only one company. You'll be mentioning the Kilkenny hurlers next as public servants in order to prop up the numbers.

What portion of those would be Waterford or from the south east, as regards employment in kilkenny I did not mention the factory in Ballyragget, or Bellview port I also did not mention Red mills, or Duggan steel a lot of sme around kilkenny like in Waterford. I was actually talking to a lady this evening from Waterford that moved her business to Thomastown five years ago due to the downturn had effected Waterford it was the best move made I know you will try tell something better. I couldn't really give a fiddlers about Waterford it does not come in to my daily thin king anything I need is in Kilkenny shops, restuarants, leisure centres . Looking forward to the new development in the old smithwicks site.

If it doesn't come into your or Road Highs daily thinking then why the hell are the two of ye on here every day?

Max Powers · 15-02-2017 09:00AM

Deiseen wrote: »

If it doesn't come into your or Road Highs daily thinking then why the hell are the two of ye on here every day?

Pure bitterness and hatred is the reason, also lack of other intelligent reason to support their gaa tinged view.

Deiseen · 15-02-2017 09:04AM

Max Powers wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

If it doesn't come into your or Road Highs daily thinking then why the hell are the two of ye on here every day?

Pure bitterness and hatred is the reason, also lack of other intelligent reason to support their gaa tinged view.

It's actually fairly sad that he feels the need to come on here and list out all the companies that Kilkenny has and all the reasons why Waterford is so crap. Completely pathetic.

azimuth17 · 15-02-2017 09:39AM

I have put the question to road-high and I put the same now to Michael Kavanagh. Do you support 24/7 interventional cardiology in UHW to serve the 500,000 people in the south east? This is one thing (among others) you might need that you do not have in Kilkenny.

Michael Kavanagh · 15-02-2017 11:15AM

Max Powers wrote: »

Pure bitterness and hatred is the reason, also lack of other intelligent reason to support their gaa tinged view.

I am not a GAA man

Michael Kavanagh · 15-02-2017 11:18AM

Deiseen wrote: »

It's actually fairly sad that he feels the need to come on here and list out all the companies that Kilkenny has and all the reasons why Waterford is so crap. Completely pathetic.

I was replying to somebody else about a remark he made you put your slant on it

Michael Kavanagh · 15-02-2017 11:23AM

azimuth17 wrote: »

I have put the question to road-high and I put the same now to Michael Kavanagh. Do you support 24/7 interventional cardiology in UHW to serve the 500,000 people in the south east? This is one thing (among others) you might need that you do not have in Kilkenny.

If that pollotican was not so weak in Waterford when he made a shout about it what chance have the people on the ground

Johnboy1951 · 15-02-2017 11:27AM

azimuth17 wrote: »

I have put the question to road-high and I put the same now to Michael Kavanagh. Do you support 24/7 interventional cardiology in UHW to serve the 500,000 people in the south east? This is one thing (among others) you might need that you do not have in Kilkenny.

Michael Kavanagh wrote: »

If that pollotican was not so weak in Waterford when he made a shout about it what chance have the people on the ground

Seems you might be a budding politician as you seem to have acquired the ability of answering a question with a non-answer.

I cannot quite figure out if that was a Yes or a No answer.

Teebor15 · 15-02-2017 12:32PM

road_high wrote: »

You're reading bitterness because it suits your narrative of victimhood. Something you were no doubt reared on. I call it reality.
My views on cardiology are irrelevant to this thread. Not sure why you keep obsessing over this. I'd like to think though if I did need specialist medical intervention I'd get the best care possible wherever the experts on such matters view as the best.

I have put the question to road-high and I put the same now to Michael Kavanagh. This is one thing (among others) you might need that you do not have in Kilkenny.
If that pollotican was not so weak in Waterford when he made a shout about it what chance have the people on the ground

C'mon lads...cut the sh*t and answer the mans question!! Do you support 24/7 interventional cardiology in UHW to serve the 500,000 people in the south east? Yes or No?

Boundary Extension for City?

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