The Reseeding/Stitching Discussion Thread.

Green farmer · 26-01-2017 3:34pm #1

Have a old pasture, never been reseeded. Really poor growth, even though good quality dry land. Did the soil rest and says I'm 1&2's for the p&k and ph 5-8. Was going to lime and reseed . What's that best way to tackle it ?

50HX · 26-01-2017 3:58pm

Green farmer wrote: »

Have a old pasture, never been reseeded. Really poor growth, even though good quality dry land. Did the soil rest and says I'm 1&2's for the p&k and ph 5-8. Was going to lime and reseed . What's that best way to tackle it ?

this is what i did last year and it came out super

sprayed off with round up

left it 14days before 3 passes of a disc ( weather went against me so this ended up being nearly 21days but no real regrowth)

2 TN lime/acre
3 bags 10:10:20/acre + a bag of can/acre

power harrow and seed together

after ~8 weeks/weeds at seeding stage sprayed with underclear

grazed nice and tight then with 6month old calves about a month later

as important as any is the seed choice to suit the soil type and use i.e silage/grazing or both

BENDYBINN · 26-01-2017 4:07pm

Anyone know what contractors charge per acre for the whole job?

Mooooo · 26-01-2017 4:57pm

Green farmer wrote: »

Have a old pasture, never been reseeded. Really poor growth, even though good quality dry land. Did the soil rest and says I'm 1&2's for the p&k and ph 5-8. Was going to lime and reseed . What's that best way to tackle it ?

Could throw out some 18 6 12 on it now and graze it once or twice before April. Help get up the p and k a bit. Burn off with roundup, We Plough, give a few runs with the land leveller, spread lime and fert 3× 10.10.20 and then seed, normally contractor seeds with a one pass machine, and then roll. Throw out a bag of can and spray a few weeks later. If you have dung may be no harm to spread a bit on it after burning off. If you don't Plough some recommend using granucal as the vegetation rotting near the surface may lower the ph and the granucal works faster, however it's a short term thing would still want ground lime at some stage. I find ploughing works well on ground that wouldn't be ploughed very often.

White Clover · 26-01-2017 5:07pm

Some good advice above but I would add that at index one you would want to be applying near 50 units of p per acre.
Also I would spray for weeds after 4 to 5 weeks and graze after 6 to 7 weeks once it passes the pull test. Your sheep be ideal for getting in to graze early. Plenty bag stuff for the year after that to get best value out of it.

Green farmer · 26-01-2017 5:24pm

It's all sheep here alright. I have a big tractor, land leveller and wagtail spreader, if I could do anything to assist, as well be trusting in a local contractor as we've never reseeded here before so yer input is appreciated. Theyve a lot of kit but seen them using a one pass machine on the neighbours, but from what yer saying could ask to plough it as well. Just want to get as good a finish as I can.

Cavanjack · 26-01-2017 6:15pm

Would you be as well spend a year or two and try and get the p & k right before reseeding? I'd try and Get plenty of slurry out on it this year, lime it in the autumn then more slurry next spring before reseeding then.

farawaygrass · 26-01-2017 6:32pm

Cavanjack wrote: »

Would you be as well spend a year or two and try and get the p & k right before reseeding? I'd try and Get plenty of slurry out on it this year, lime it in the autumn then more slurry next spring before reseeding then.

I was always wondering that too and that's what I'm doing-building up p and k first. Hopefully get more bang for my buck then when reseed.

pedigree 6 · 26-01-2017 7:07pm

farawaygrass wrote: »

I was always wondering that too and that's what I'm doing-building up p and k first. Hopefully get more bang for my buck then when reseed.

That's fine if you are just spraying off and direct drilling.
But if you're ploughing that's going to be buried again.
Ploughing will correct any compaction issues and tends to dry up the land a bit.

What I do is spray with roundup, smother the ground in dung, contractor ploughs, roll, disc harrow, pick stones, leveller, contractor spreads lime, harrow, leveller, spread grass seed with wagtail, spread 3 x 10.10.20/ac, roll twice, leave.

Then when grass gives a hint of green on the field spread 27 units CAN /ac.
Then spray undersow for the weeds when they come up.

If you have never spread grass seed before with a wagtail before I wouldn't do it. You'd want to see someone else do it beforehand. When I spread I leave the width of the tractor between runs and then you need a calm day for spreading.
But then you need the settings on the spreader spot on.

Username John · 26-01-2017 7:37pm

I wouldn't be the best to comment, as haven't done a whole pile of reseeding... but done a bit every year for a few years now...

For your reseeding, I would
- spray
- cover the ground in dung, and slurry maybe if you could get it
- plough
- 3 ton lime / acre
- power harrow
- spread seed with wagtail
- light harrow (or drag a bush over it)

- I wouldn't be too pushed on rolling... none of ours ever gets rolled... if rain coming, I definitely wouldn't bother...

I'd reseed in the autumn, I find reseeds do better in the autumn.
I never sprayed a reseed for weed after it went in, and the autumn reseeds always turned out very clean.

I have put out the fertiliser with the seed and a few weeks later when the seed is up.
Our ground is steep, and travelling the ground when twas very soft kinda tore it a bit, so for this reason I would put fertiliser with the seed...
But - from what I saw, I didn't notice much difference in performance, so twould be up to yerself...

One thing is to budget a lot of fertiliser over the 2-3 years for the reseed as well...
I can see reseeds where they did well, cos I fed em heavy the few years after they went in...
But I have a reseed that I didn't put enough on last autumn, and tis looking shook enough...
Reseeds need heavier fertiliser feeding, but will give you great grass - just be aware of the extra $$$ needed in fertiliser...

Now - having said all that...

A reseed bringing up the Ph, P & K will give you great grass...

But correcting the Ph, P & K without reseeding, although with plenty dung would turn it around as well...
Slower admittedly, but a lot cheaper than paying for spraying, ploughing, harrowing, grass seed (which wouldn't be long hitting 200/acre)

So if I were you, I'd go looking for slurry... horse that out on it...
Maybe graze hard in first rotation, then slurry heavy... twould bring up the P & K some bit...
Maybe try to get more slurry on again during the summer (as with all this dribble bar craic, I think this shouldn't sour the grass? Wouldn't know a lot about slurry tho)
Dung heavy in the autumn...

Not sure that post helped much...

Green farmer · 26-01-2017 8:48pm

The slurry is sort off a non starter with the sheep only and not set up to handle it. Maybe should think about fixing the ph first and see where we go from there.

Username John · 26-01-2017 9:09pm

Green farmer wrote: »

The slurry is sort off a non starter with the sheep only and not set up to handle it. Maybe should think about fixing the ph first and see where we go from there.

Would you have the capacity to import slurry - nitrates wise?

If so, worth it be worth a mention to few local dairy lads?

I got slurry off a local dairy lad who was looking for someone / somewhere to go with it... was a few years ago now, but I assume it's still possible...

EDIT : been thinking... if slurry is a no go... then throw on lime asap. I'd put out 3ton / acre...
Then go with what fertiliser you can justify...

If you still want to reseed the end of the year or next year - just spray and power harrow, so you won't be burrowing the value of the lime and the fertiliser with the plough...

Tis cheap enough soil test again the end of the year, to see how the indices have come on...

Green farmer · 26-01-2017 9:19pm

Username John wrote: »

Would you have the capacity to import slurry - nitrates wise?

If so, worth it be worth a mention to few local dairy lads?

I got slurry off a local dairy lad who was looking for someone / somewhere to go with it... was a few years ago now, but I assume it's still possible...

Id have loads of capacity as low stocked. I always thought they'd keep it for their own fields, but Ill ask the local contractor to keep an eye out if anyone's looking as they'd empty tanks for lads. Sometimes you'd have so many holes to plug when trying to improve land, its hard to know where to start.

Username John · 26-01-2017 9:29pm

Green farmer wrote: »

Id have loads of capacity as low stocked. I always thought they'd keep it for their own fields, but Ill ask the local contractor to keep an eye out if anyone's looking as they'd empty tanks for lads.

I got it cos a lad was over stocked (is it 170kg / n is the limit?)

Anyways, there was a form you fill out that says you took say 100k gallows of cattle slurry off herd number 123 and that allows the farmer to reduce the nitrate rate...

As I understand it anyways...

larthehar · 26-01-2017 10:24pm

Tbh i have done a pile of different methods.. and time and time again the Plough comes out on top.. some ground is too stoney and disc is the only option..
The depth of ploughing is important too.. i only go about 4in for reseeds not to bury the fertile soil.. but if compaction is an issue you may have to go deeper or get a pan breaker..

The seed type is important too, lads go to big expense and then throw out rubbish seeds.. different land types work better with different seeds so you should ask local dairy lads..

Green farmer · 26-01-2017 10:36pm

larthehar wrote: »

Tbh i have done a pile of different methods.. and time and time again the Plough comes out on top

The seed type is important too, lads go to big expense and then throw out rubbish seeds.. different land types work better with different seeds so you should ask local dairy lads..

What would you do after ploughing ?

larthehar · 26-01-2017 10:54pm

Lime, 10.10.20x3, till, level, sow with wagtail two ways and roll.. oh and pray for rain!

Green farmer · 26-01-2017 11:10pm

Just thinking out loud, would it be a lot of messing about buying an old plough for a few hundred and having a go yourself ? Is there much to it ? Do contractors charge much per acre to plough ? Thinking about reseeding 10 acres initially

larthehar · 26-01-2017 11:39pm

Green farmer wrote: »

Just thinking out loud, would it be a lot of messing about buying an old plough for a few hundred and having a go yourself ? Is there much to it ? Do contractors charge much per acre to plough ? Thinking about reseeding 10 acres initially

I.d say yr one, get the contractor and see how ya go.. for 10ac at 50/ac that is 500.. you wouldn't get a decent cut of a Plough for less than 1500..

Walk before you run!

CloughCasey1 · 27-01-2017 6:41pm

Reseeding a must in my opinion. Look at two pics below. Both have index 3&4 for p&k ph is 6.5-7.3. Both were grazed until end of Nov. But the reeseeded field out performs tho older one and beats it out the gate. Quicker to graze in spring better later grazing. Quicker turnaround during rotations, better quality leafy grass etx etc etc. See pics taken earlier of both. One side of the road to each other. No comparison. Also the 15 outwintered cattle broke into the good side two wks ago and got about 6-8 hrs grazing on it.

Reggie. · 27-01-2017 9:51pm

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Anyone know what contractors charge per acre for the whole job?

Around €300 an acre on average.

jimmy G M · 27-01-2017 11:35pm

Reggie. wrote: »

Around €300 an acre on average.

Yeah, something like that, round figures - €50 to plough, €50 more to harrow / till, Grass seed is around €75/acre, spread 3 bags fert another €75, thats €250 per acre already and you need to factor in spraying off if thats what you want, spreading & covering the grass seed, lime & rolling, post emergence spray so no change out of €300 i'd say and could even go over it.

Reggie. · 27-01-2017 11:38pm

jimmy G M wrote: »

Yeah, something like that, round figures - €50 to plough, €50 more to harrow / till, Grass seed is around €75/acre, spread 3 bags fert another €75, thats €250 per acre already and you need to factor in spraying off if thats what you want, spreading & covering the grass seed, lime & rolling, post emergence spray so no change out of €300 i'd say and could even go over it.

I think that's why overseeding is getting more popular. It's about €100 an acre including seed but only lasts about 5 to 6 years over a complete reseeding thar lasts 8 years. With overseeding tho there is no downtime for the land

jimmy G M · 27-01-2017 11:47pm

Reggie. wrote: »

I think that's why overseeding is getting more popular. It's about €100 an acre including seed but only lasts about 5 to 6 years over a complete reseeding thar lasts 8 years. With overseeding tho there is no downtime for the land

Are you trying to drum up business??

I agree with you though.

Mf310 · 27-01-2017 11:51pm

Username John wrote:

For your reseeding, I would - spray - cover the ground in dung, and slurry maybe if you could get it - plough - 3 ton lime / acre - power harrow - spread seed with wagtail - light harrow (or drag a bush over it) - I wouldn't be too pushed on rolling... none of ours ever gets rolled... if rain coming, I definitely wouldn't bother...

Just when you mention about the rolling there i find ya couldnt roll a field enough Any reseed that goes on here gets 2 rolls

Reggie. · 27-01-2017 11:56pm

jimmy G M wrote: »

Are you trying to drum up business??

I agree with you though.

No but that's why I decided to go down the route. Dairy farmers can't have land out of action for 8 months

But all methods have Thier merits

alps · 28-01-2017 1:08am

Reggie. wrote: »

I think that's why overseeding is getting more popular. It's about €100 an acre including seed but only lasts about 5 to 6 years over a complete reseeding thar lasts 8 years. With overseeding tho there is no downtime for the land

Can someone give their experiences of overseeding..timing, method, type of grass seed, fertiliser, any sprays? Results.. Would be very interested please

Username John · 28-01-2017 1:15am

Mf310 wrote: »

Just when you mention about the rolling there i find ya couldnt roll a field enough Any reseed that goes on here gets 2 rolls

A lot of our fields would be too high for rolling - you'd do more damage than good rolling it afterwards...

Most of the grass seed here went in with contractor one pass, and no rolling afterwards... seems to do all right...

I wouldn't be against it, just found that it seems to go all right without it...

bogman_bass · 28-01-2017 1:30am

alps wrote: »

Can someone give their experiences of overseeding..timing, method, type of grass seed, fertiliser, any sprays? Results.. Would be very interested please

I've got land reseeded with a moore unidrill and to be honest the big varible is moisture. If rain doesnt come at the right time your banjaxed.

My perfered method now is lime, 2 runs of powerharrow, seed barrow, fert, roll

Mooooo · 28-01-2017 1:47am

Mf310 wrote: »

Just when you mention about the rolling there i find ya couldnt roll a field enough Any reseed that goes on here gets 2 rolls

It's mainly to retain moisture so prob more important in a spring/summer reseed than an autumn one.

Mooooo · 28-01-2017 1:52am

Reggie. wrote: »

No but that's why I decided to go down the route. Dairy farmers can't have land out of action for 8 months

But all methods have Thier merits

Ah reseed wouldn't put ground out of action for 8 months, perhaps 2 weeks burned off and 8 weeks after seeding back grazing with an early reseed anyway. Depending on what it's replacing the reseed may well grow a good bit more in the first year than the old sward would. Overseeding may have more of a roll in paddocks which may have been poached alright, have you ever done it on such paddocks reggie?

Reggie. · 28-01-2017 9:37am

Mooooo wrote: »

Ah reseed wouldn't put ground out of action for 8 months, perhaps 2 weeks burned off and 8 weeks after seeding back grazing with an early reseed anyway. Depending on what it's replacing the reseed may well grow a good bit more in the first year than the old sward would. Overseeding may have more of a roll in paddocks which may have been poached alright, have you ever done it on such paddocks reggie?

No haven't started reseeding yet so no real experience as yet but overseeding is mainly done after the silage is cut or fields well grazed.

Only last year (april) we reseeded 5 acres the standard way. Two runs of the powerharrow and then the seed Barrow.

Then fertiliser and rolled. It took the grass about 3 or 4 months to come up enough to graze and we haven't been able to travel that field since with machines due to the soil being too soft. Every time we tried to enter we tore it apart.

Hoping that maybe it will harden up over the winter. Could only grazed calves on it last year as as soon as cows went it they poached the hell outta it. The soil couldn't take any sort of weight due to the powerharrow runs. Could just be an isolated case mind.

Limofarmer · 28-01-2017 12:00pm

Reggie. wrote: »

No haven't started reseeding yet so no real experience as yet but overseeding is mainly done after the silage is cut or fields well grazed.

Only last year (april) we reseeded 5 acres the standard way. Two runs of the powerharrow and then the seed Barrow.

Then fertiliser and rolled. It took the grass about 3 or 4 months to come up enough to graze and we haven't been able to travel that field since with machines due to the soil being too soft. Every time we tried to enter we tore it apart.

Hoping that maybe it will harden up over the winter. Could only grazed calves on it last year as as soon as cows went it they poached the hell outta it. The soil couldn't take any sort of weight due to the powerharrow runs. Could just be an isolated case mind.

Used min till here last year . Leaves ground much easier to travel and much quicker turn around than most other methods . Contractor used a gutter with front grubbed as per pic .
It was seeded In mid may and was grazed in early July and went on to be grazed twice after that and also took surplus bales of it . It now has a cover of 900 on it again .
In any reseed regardless of method seed bed prep is important .

locha · 28-01-2017 12:02pm

In the last two year have reseeded circa 40 acres. Year 1 ploughed - NEVER again. We used to have the field in tillage and still my heart was broken with stones. Last year, spray, graze, disc harrow x 2 Power Harrow, roll, seed, roll. Great job. The main thing was that the disking broke up quite a bit of the scraw in advance of the power harrow. Also I think if your not ploughing the grass has to grazed to the absolute butt. I got horses and sheep from neighbours in and you could have played snooker on the field when they were done.

Limofarmer · 28-01-2017 12:07pm

locha wrote: »

In the last two year have reseeded circa 40 acres. Year 1 ploughed - NEVER again. We used to have the field in tillage and still my heart was broken with stones. Last year, spray, graze, disc harrow x 2 Power Harrow, roll, seed, roll. Great job. The main thing was that the disking broke up quite a bit of the scraw in advance of the power harrow. Also I think if your not ploughing the grass has to grazed to the absolute butt. I got horses and sheep from neighbours in and you could have played snooker on the field when they were done.

We burnt it off and then let every animal in the place into it as soon as it started to wilt . . Grazed it to the clay . Then left it 3 weeks too allow the roots of the grass die and hence loose its grip on the soil and then leaves it easy to work with .

Keepgrowing · 28-01-2017 4:03pm

Here we graze bare, spray and on day 5 spread fert and drill with Atchison seeder.

Mooooo · 28-01-2017 6:47pm

Depends on the ground I guess. On ground that gets wet, provided drainage is done already, I reckon Plough is best. Did one field with heavy disc and was the wrong call. Wouldn't have done much mintill here.

Reggie. · 28-01-2017 7:17pm

Mooooo wrote: »

Depends on the ground I guess. On ground that gets wet, provided drainage is done already, I reckon Plough is best. Did one field with heavy disc and was the wrong call. Wouldn't have done much mintill here.

That's just it. The ground dictates the method. Our land is heavy with plenty of stones. So plough and powerharrow are a pain

Mooooo · 28-01-2017 7:19pm

Once had a stone rake and 3 dumper trailers taking stones off 7 acres and still had to go pick8ng after it. Dumpers were a disaster only compacted the ground

larthehar · 28-01-2017 11:10pm

We had a very stoney plot of land so for a trial i tested discing and guttler in one field and guttler only in the other.. i had granline out after sprayer to break down the sod.. i found intially the guttler only leapt out of the ground but in the second season the disced field was streets ahead with growth, thickness at butt and weeds.. it seems that the more the shake up the soil the better the performance..

Sami23 · 29-01-2017 12:39am

Mf310 wrote: »

Username John wrote:

For your reseeding, I would - spray - cover the ground in dung, and slurry maybe if you could get it - plough - 3 ton lime / acre - power harrow - spread seed with wagtail - light harrow (or drag a bush over it) - I wouldn't be too pushed on rolling... none of ours ever gets rolled... if rain coming, I definitely wouldn't bother...

Just when you mention about the rolling there i find ya couldnt roll a field enough Any reseed that goes on here gets 2 rolls

Would you have much water in the roller ?

White Clover · 29-01-2017 12:43am

Sami23 wrote: »

Would you have much water in the roller ?

As much as you can put into it!

Green farmer · 02-02-2017 2:37pm

Thanks for all the input lads. Spoke to the contractors, and they'd be more inclined to disc the field and power Harrow after. They said some fields they've done in the area tended to throw up alot of stone. they also gave me ideas about how to import in pig slurry and how to organise it , which I had previously thought wouldn't have been an option, and seeing how field turned out, before reseeding. Overall from what they suggested and the good advice you've given me here, I'm going to let it all soak in and see what pans out, at least now I've options and a few signposts to direct me, Thanks again

Green farmer · 09-02-2017 6:54pm

Just an update lads. Going to give the field 2T an acre of lime. It's covered with moss between the grass so going to see what kind of response comes from that. Looked into the pig slurry and between the cost of paying the piggery for transport and a contractor to spread it, wasn't working out much cheaper then fert, so going to give it something like 10 10 20 between grazings. Then next autumn going to look at the reseeding by disc Harrow as the soil is too shallow for ploughing.

Username John · 09-02-2017 7:49pm

Green farmer wrote: »

Just an update lads. Going to give the field 2T an acre of lime. It's covered with moss between the grass so going to see what kind of response comes from that. Looked into the pig slurry and between the cost of paying the piggery for transport and a contractor to spread it, wasn't working out much cheaper then fert, so going to give it something like 10 10 20 between grazings. Then next autumn going to look at the reseeding by disc Harrow as the soil is too shallow for ploughing.

Will it get dung this autumn Green?

I think a bit of slurry would do a better job than bag fertiliser for one go...
I should also say, i have nothing to base than on, other than my own thinking

Green farmer · 09-02-2017 8:51pm

Username John wrote: »

Will it get dung this autumn Green?

I think a bit of slurry would do a better job than bag fertiliser for one go...
I should also say, i have nothing to base than on, other than my own thinking

Lads might be able to advise as I've zero slurry experience, but was looking up teagasc research that said 1,000 gallons of good pig slurry is the same as one 50kg bag of 19 7 20 or €26 at prices a year ago. So in my case, reckon would be nearly as cheap to buy Fert, less the hassle.

pedigree 6 · 09-02-2017 9:00pm

Green farmer wrote: »

Lads might be able to advise as I've zero slurry experience, but was looking up teagasc research that said 1,000 gallons of good pig slurry is the same as one 50kg bag of 19 7 20 or €26 at prices a year ago. So in my case, reckon would be nearly as cheap to buy Fert, less the hassle.

The difference between slurry and fert is the Organic Matter in the slurry.
Obviously dung will have higher OM again than slurry.
Basically OM is the stuff that holds onto the nutrients in your soil and stops it from leaching and provides food for worms and the worms make it more plant available.

Organic matter is good stuff.:)

charolais0153 · 09-02-2017 10:11pm

pedigree 6 wrote: »

The difference between slurry and fert is the Organic Matter in the slurry.
Obviously dung will have higher OM again than slurry.
Basically OM is the stuff that holds onto the nutrients in your soil and stops it from leaching and provides food for worms and the worms make it more plant available.

Organic matter is good stuff.:)

Ag science book says no organic matter. And that organic matter only comes from the straw. :rolleyes:

pedigree 6 · 09-02-2017 10:46pm

charolais0153 wrote: »

Ag science book says no organic matter. And that organic matter only comes from the straw. :rolleyes:

Don't mind that book. :pac:
It's organic matter going in the cow and it's organic matter coming out.
All stuff that grows and rots is organic matter.

Edit: Burn that book.

Reggie. · 18-02-2017 4:21pm

Hi guys. Can people post up any of the main irish seed merchants that they know in thier areas. Googling them but not really getting anywhere

Mooooo · 18-02-2017 4:53pm

Reggie. wrote: »

Hi guys. Can people post up any of the main irish seed merchants that they know in thier areas. Googling them but not really getting anywhere

Goldcrop would be one, most coops would have em too. Tipperary seeds another I think. Is mastercrop glanbias?

The Reseeding/Stitching Discussion Thread.

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