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The Reseeding/Stitching Discussion Thread.

  • 26-01-2017 3:34pm
    #1
    Green farmer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭


    Have a old pasture, never been reseeded. Really poor growth, even though good quality dry land. Did the soil rest and says I'm 1&2's for the p&k and ph 5-8. Was going to lime and reseed . What's that best way to tackle it ?


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Comments

  • #2
    50HX
    Registered Users Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭50HX


    Green farmer wrote: »
    Have a old pasture, never been reseeded. Really poor growth, even though good quality dry land. Did the soil rest and says I'm 1&2's for the p&k and ph 5-8. Was going to lime and reseed . What's that best way to tackle it ?


    this is what i did last year and it came out super

    sprayed off with round up

    left it 14days before 3 passes of a disc ( weather went against me so this ended up being nearly 21days but no real regrowth)

    2 TN lime/acre
    3 bags 10:10:20/acre + a bag of can/acre

    power harrow and seed together

    after ~8 weeks/weeds at seeding stage sprayed with underclear

    grazed nice and tight then with 6month old calves about a month later


    as important as any is the seed choice to suit the soil type and use i.e silage/grazing or both


  • #3
    BENDYBINN
    Registered Users Posts: 1,818 ✭✭✭BENDYBINN


    Anyone know what contractors charge per acre for the whole job?


  • #4
    Mooooo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    Green farmer wrote: »
    Have a old pasture, never been reseeded. Really poor growth, even though good quality dry land. Did the soil rest and says I'm 1&2's for the p&k and ph 5-8. Was going to lime and reseed . What's that best way to tackle it ?

    Could throw out some 18 6 12 on it now and graze it once or twice before April. Help get up the p and k a bit. Burn off with roundup, We Plough, give a few runs with the land leveller, spread lime and fert 3× 10.10.20 and then seed, normally contractor seeds with a one pass machine, and then roll. Throw out a bag of can and spray a few weeks later. If you have dung may be no harm to spread a bit on it after burning off. If you don't Plough some recommend using granucal as the vegetation rotting near the surface may lower the ph and the granucal works faster, however it's a short term thing would still want ground lime at some stage. I find ploughing works well on ground that wouldn't be ploughed very often.


  • #5
    White Clover
    Registered Users Posts: 4,556 ✭✭✭White Clover


    Some good advice above but I would add that at index one you would want to be applying near 50 units of p per acre.
    Also I would spray for weeds after 4 to 5 weeks and graze after 6 to 7 weeks once it passes the pull test. Your sheep be ideal for getting in to graze early. Plenty bag stuff for the year after that to get best value out of it.


  • #6
    Green farmer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭Green farmer


    It's all sheep here alright. I have a big tractor, land leveller and wagtail spreader, if I could do anything to assist, as well be trusting in a local contractor as we've never reseeded here before so yer input is appreciated. Theyve a lot of kit but seen them using a one pass machine on the neighbours, but from what yer saying could ask to plough it as well. Just want to get as good a finish as I can.


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  • #7
    Cavanjack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭Cavanjack


    Would you be as well spend a year or two and try and get the p & k right before reseeding? I'd try and Get plenty of slurry out on it this year, lime it in the autumn then more slurry next spring before reseeding then.


  • #8
    farawaygrass
    Registered Users Posts: 1,899 ✭✭✭farawaygrass


    Cavanjack wrote: »
    Would you be as well spend a year or two and try and get the p & k right before reseeding? I'd try and Get plenty of slurry out on it this year, lime it in the autumn then more slurry next spring before reseeding then.

    I was always wondering that too and that's what I'm doing-building up p and k first. Hopefully get more bang for my buck then when reseed.


  • #9
    pedigree 6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭pedigree 6


    farawaygrass wrote: »
    I was always wondering that too and that's what I'm doing-building up p and k first. Hopefully get more bang for my buck then when reseed.

    That's fine if you are just spraying off and direct drilling.
    But if you're ploughing that's going to be buried again.
    Ploughing will correct any compaction issues and tends to dry up the land a bit.

    What I do is spray with roundup, smother the ground in dung, contractor ploughs, roll, disc harrow, pick stones, leveller, contractor spreads lime, harrow, leveller, spread grass seed with wagtail, spread 3 x 10.10.20/ac, roll twice, leave.

    Then when grass gives a hint of green on the field spread 27 units CAN /ac.
    Then spray undersow for the weeds when they come up.

    If you have never spread grass seed before with a wagtail before I wouldn't do it. You'd want to see someone else do it beforehand. When I spread I leave the width of the tractor between runs and then you need a calm day for spreading.
    But then you need the settings on the spreader spot on.


  • #10
    Username John
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    I wouldn't be the best to comment, as haven't done a whole pile of reseeding... but done a bit every year for a few years now...

    For your reseeding, I would
    - spray
    - cover the ground in dung, and slurry maybe if you could get it
    - plough
    - 3 ton lime / acre
    - power harrow
    - spread seed with wagtail
    - light harrow (or drag a bush over it) ;)
    - I wouldn't be too pushed on rolling... none of ours ever gets rolled... if rain coming, I definitely wouldn't bother...

    I'd reseed in the autumn, I find reseeds do better in the autumn.
    I never sprayed a reseed for weed after it went in, and the autumn reseeds always turned out very clean.

    I have put out the fertiliser with the seed and a few weeks later when the seed is up.
    Our ground is steep, and travelling the ground when twas very soft kinda tore it a bit, so for this reason I would put fertiliser with the seed...
    But - from what I saw, I didn't notice much difference in performance, so twould be up to yerself...

    One thing is to budget a lot of fertiliser over the 2-3 years for the reseed as well...
    I can see reseeds where they did well, cos I fed em heavy the few years after they went in...
    But I have a reseed that I didn't put enough on last autumn, and tis looking shook enough...
    Reseeds need heavier fertiliser feeding, but will give you great grass - just be aware of the extra $$$ needed in fertiliser...

    Now - having said all that... ;)

    A reseed bringing up the Ph, P & K will give you great grass...

    But correcting the Ph, P & K without reseeding, although with plenty dung would turn it around as well...
    Slower admittedly, but a lot cheaper than paying for spraying, ploughing, harrowing, grass seed (which wouldn't be long hitting 200/acre)

    So if I were you, I'd go looking for slurry... horse that out on it...
    Maybe graze hard in first rotation, then slurry heavy... twould bring up the P & K some bit...
    Maybe try to get more slurry on again during the summer (as with all this dribble bar craic, I think this shouldn't sour the grass? Wouldn't know a lot about slurry tho)
    Dung heavy in the autumn...

    Not sure that post helped much... ;)


  • #11
    Green farmer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭Green farmer


    The slurry is sort off a non starter with the sheep only and not set up to handle it. Maybe should think about fixing the ph first and see where we go from there.


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  • #12
    Username John
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    Green farmer wrote: »
    The slurry is sort off a non starter with the sheep only and not set up to handle it. Maybe should think about fixing the ph first and see where we go from there.

    Would you have the capacity to import slurry - nitrates wise?

    If so, worth it be worth a mention to few local dairy lads?

    I got slurry off a local dairy lad who was looking for someone / somewhere to go with it... was a few years ago now, but I assume it's still possible...

    EDIT : been thinking... if slurry is a no go... then throw on lime asap. I'd put out 3ton / acre...
    Then go with what fertiliser you can justify...

    If you still want to reseed the end of the year or next year - just spray and power harrow, so you won't be burrowing the value of the lime and the fertiliser with the plough...

    Tis cheap enough soil test again the end of the year, to see how the indices have come on...


  • #13
    Green farmer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭Green farmer


    Username John wrote: »
    Would you have the capacity to import slurry - nitrates wise?

    If so, worth it be worth a mention to few local dairy lads?

    I got slurry off a local dairy lad who was looking for someone / somewhere to go with it... was a few years ago now, but I assume it's still possible...

    Id have loads of capacity as low stocked. I always thought they'd keep it for their own fields, but Ill ask the local contractor to keep an eye out if anyone's looking as they'd empty tanks for lads. Sometimes you'd have so many holes to plug when trying to improve land, its hard to know where to start.


  • #14
    Username John
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    Green farmer wrote: »
    Id have loads of capacity as low stocked. I always thought they'd keep it for their own fields, but Ill ask the local contractor to keep an eye out if anyone's looking as they'd empty tanks for lads.

    I got it cos a lad was over stocked (is it 170kg / n is the limit?)

    Anyways, there was a form you fill out that says you took say 100k gallows of cattle slurry off herd number 123 and that allows the farmer to reduce the nitrate rate...

    As I understand it anyways... ;)


  • #15
    larthehar
    Registered Users Posts: 606 ✭✭✭larthehar


    Tbh i have done a pile of different methods.. and time and time again the Plough comes out on top.. some ground is too stoney and disc is the only option..
    The depth of ploughing is important too.. i only go about 4in for reseeds not to bury the fertile soil.. but if compaction is an issue you may have to go deeper or get a pan breaker..

    The seed type is important too, lads go to big expense and then throw out rubbish seeds.. different land types work better with different seeds so you should ask local dairy lads..


  • #16
    Green farmer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭Green farmer


    larthehar wrote: »
    Tbh i have done a pile of different methods.. and time and time again the Plough comes out on top

    The seed type is important too, lads go to big expense and then throw out rubbish seeds.. different land types work better with different seeds so you should ask local dairy lads..

    What would you do after ploughing ?


  • #17
    larthehar
    Registered Users Posts: 606 ✭✭✭larthehar


    Lime, 10.10.20x3, till, level, sow with wagtail two ways and roll.. oh and pray for rain!


  • #18
    Green farmer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭Green farmer


    Just thinking out loud, would it be a lot of messing about buying an old plough for a few hundred and having a go yourself ? Is there much to it ? Do contractors charge much per acre to plough ? Thinking about reseeding 10 acres initially


  • #19
    larthehar
    Registered Users Posts: 606 ✭✭✭larthehar


    Green farmer wrote: »
    Just thinking out loud, would it be a lot of messing about buying an old plough for a few hundred and having a go yourself ? Is there much to it ? Do contractors charge much per acre to plough ? Thinking about reseeding 10 acres initially

    I.d say yr one, get the contractor and see how ya go.. for 10ac at 50/ac that is 500.. you wouldn't get a decent cut of a Plough for less than 1500..

    Walk before you run!


  • #20
    CloughCasey1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭CloughCasey1


    Reseeding a must in my opinion. Look at two pics below. Both have index 3&4 for p&k ph is 6.5-7.3. Both were grazed until end of Nov. But the reeseeded field out performs tho older one and beats it out the gate. Quicker to graze in spring better later grazing. Quicker turnaround during rotations, better quality leafy grass etx etc etc. See pics taken earlier of both. One side of the road to each other. No comparison. Also the 15 outwintered cattle broke into the good side two wks ago and got about 6-8 hrs grazing on it.


  • #21
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,362 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    BENDYBINN wrote: »
    Anyone know what contractors charge per acre for the whole job?

    Around €300 an acre on average.


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  • #22
    jimmy G M
    Registered Users Posts: 1,140 ✭✭✭jimmy G M


    Reggie. wrote: »
    Around €300 an acre on average.

    Yeah, something like that, round figures - €50 to plough, €50 more to harrow / till, Grass seed is around €75/acre, spread 3 bags fert another €75, thats €250 per acre already and you need to factor in spraying off if thats what you want, spreading & covering the grass seed, lime & rolling, post emergence spray so no change out of €300 i'd say and could even go over it.


  • #23
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,362 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    jimmy G M wrote: »
    Yeah, something like that, round figures - €50 to plough, €50 more to harrow / till, Grass seed is around €75/acre, spread 3 bags fert another €75, thats €250 per acre already and you need to factor in spraying off if thats what you want, spreading & covering the grass seed, lime & rolling, post emergence spray so no change out of €300 i'd say and could even go over it.

    I think that's why overseeding is getting more popular. It's about €100 an acre including seed but only lasts about 5 to 6 years over a complete reseeding thar lasts 8 years. With overseeding tho there is no downtime for the land


  • #24
    jimmy G M
    Registered Users Posts: 1,140 ✭✭✭jimmy G M


    Reggie. wrote: »
    I think that's why overseeding is getting more popular. It's about €100 an acre including seed but only lasts about 5 to 6 years over a complete reseeding thar lasts 8 years. With overseeding tho there is no downtime for the land

    Are you trying to drum up business?? :D;)







    I agree with you though.


  • #25
    Mf310
    Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭Mf310


    Username John wrote:
    For your reseeding, I would - spray - cover the ground in dung, and slurry maybe if you could get it - plough - 3 ton lime / acre - power harrow - spread seed with wagtail - light harrow (or drag a bush over it) - I wouldn't be too pushed on rolling... none of ours ever gets rolled... if rain coming, I definitely wouldn't bother...


    Just when you mention about the rolling there i find ya couldnt roll a field enough Any reseed that goes on here gets 2 rolls


  • #26
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,362 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    jimmy G M wrote: »
    Are you trying to drum up business?? :D;)







    I agree with you though.
    No but that's why I decided to go down the route. Dairy farmers can't have land out of action for 8 months

    But all methods have Thier merits


  • #27
    alps
    Registered Users Posts: 4,922 ✭✭✭alps


    Reggie. wrote: »
    I think that's why overseeding is getting more popular. It's about €100 an acre including seed but only lasts about 5 to 6 years over a complete reseeding thar lasts 8 years. With overseeding tho there is no downtime for the land

    Can someone give their experiences of overseeding..timing, method, type of grass seed, fertiliser, any sprays? Results.. Would be very interested please


  • #28
    Username John
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    Mf310 wrote: »
    Just when you mention about the rolling there i find ya couldnt roll a field enough Any reseed that goes on here gets 2 rolls

    A lot of our fields would be too high for rolling - you'd do more damage than good rolling it afterwards...

    Most of the grass seed here went in with contractor one pass, and no rolling afterwards... seems to do all right...

    I wouldn't be against it, just found that it seems to go all right without it...


  • #29
    bogman_bass
    Registered Users Posts: 5,057 ✭✭✭bogman_bass


    alps wrote: »
    Can someone give their experiences of overseeding..timing, method, type of grass seed, fertiliser, any sprays? Results.. Would be very interested please
    I've got land reseeded with a moore unidrill and to be honest the big varible is moisture. If rain doesnt come at the right time your banjaxed.

    My perfered method now is lime, 2 runs of powerharrow, seed barrow, fert, roll


  • #30
    Mooooo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    Mf310 wrote: »
    Just when you mention about the rolling there i find ya couldnt roll a field enough Any reseed that goes on here gets 2 rolls

    It's mainly to retain moisture so prob more important in a spring/summer reseed than an autumn one.


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  • #31
    Mooooo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    Reggie. wrote: »
    No but that's why I decided to go down the route. Dairy farmers can't have land out of action for 8 months

    But all methods have Thier merits

    Ah reseed wouldn't put ground out of action for 8 months, perhaps 2 weeks burned off and 8 weeks after seeding back grazing with an early reseed anyway. Depending on what it's replacing the reseed may well grow a good bit more in the first year than the old sward would. Overseeding may have more of a roll in paddocks which may have been poached alright, have you ever done it on such paddocks reggie?


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