Should parents stop pretending that Santa is real?

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Amazing the strong reactions to people who do NOT do the Santa thing. Some quite judgmental and barbed remarks being flung. When in fact generally it is no big deal really. The parents who do not do it, simply do not do it, and the world doesn't end and they are not the awful people some here would want them to be.



I am divided on the issue to myself. So I would never presume to tell other parents what they "should" do or not do like the thread title suggests.

I just know that I myself do not do the Santa thing with my children. I see no need or real benefit to doing it at all. So I simply do not do it.

I never presume to tell other parents they shouldn't do it, but I do have to say that when other parents..... usually on line not to my face........ hear I do not do it.... the kind of things they sometimes say in response is pure unadulterated nonsense.

Everything from "abusing my children in the aim of furthering my anti religion agenda" to "taking the magic and joy of Christmas away" to "destroying the children's imagination and fantasy life"..... not one thing they say holds up to any scrutiny or the remotest application of intellect or is remotely actually true.

I suspect this is mostly from what could be called the "Diverging from the Narrative" effect. Because what they spew makes little sense otherwise.

But no I do not judge anyone who DOES do the Santa Narrative, nor do I have any issue with my parents for doing ti with me. I simply see no reason why I should do it myself, so I do not.

I think what these "scientists" are saying is hyperbolic at best. But the core point made.... that children look to us with trust as a source of truth and learning and guidance..... and this can all be shaken when they find out you lied to them about a large chunk of their world view...... is not something I would simply dismiss with the wave of a hand either.



Well see that would be the crux of it for me. I engage in make believe with the kids ALL THE TIME. Like daily. When you write something like you do above you make it sound like the rest of the year is entirely devoid of such pleasures, and sure why not let a bit of it in at Christmas to off set the desolation of the rest of the year.

Make believe and imagination and wonder and magic and fun and joy is RIFE on a daily basis in my house with my kids. So I simply have no requirement to bring some commercial pre-packaged nonsense version into my house annually in order to substitute something that is already there.

And what is more all of those things are attained perfectly well without once ever having to convince the children that the thing we are engaging with is real. In fact quite often when we get really carried away with whatever narrative we are playing with..... it is them that remind ME that it is all make believe.... not the other way around. Which is always funny to watch when we are lost in a fantasy narrative and they feel it is me that might be taking it to seriously and believing it to be more than a game Cool kids they are.



And I think that is a well meant and heartwarming foundation for the error you make above. I think a LOT of people like you have heart warming and lovely memories of it.

So when they think of parents NOT doing the santa thing they simply are imagining THEIR childhood simply MINUS the santa stuff. And they they assume that is what it must be like in the house of "the other".

But the reality is actually much different. It is not the same simply minus the Santa thing. We fill that "vacuum" with all kinds of other sources and modes of joy and wonder and play and imagination. And my children will likely look back on their Christmases with EVERY bit of gratitude and warmth that you do.

The sole and ONLY difference will be that nothing I employed to achieve that, unlike in your own childhood, required that my children actually believe something patently untrue to get there.



And as far as I can see nothing of the sort is true, and I hope the descriptions and corrections to your impression above benefit your judgement call in some way.



They really do. So I have never felt compelled to take that from them by convincing them it is real. Allow them the exploration of fantasy by all means. I know I certainly do. Believing the fantasy real is simply not a requirement children actually have. I fear many people assume it is however. Quite falsely.



Yea one thing I have learned as a parent is that what children seek more than anything else is some kind of "control" over their world.

Much of their otherwise unusual behaviors and reactions can be perfectly well understood when you parse it through that little fact.

And most of the best parental advice I have ever received or heard is usually the advice that is grounded on giving the child the control, or the impression of control, over their world and environment.

But there is a multitude of ways to achieve that without having to sell them fantasy narratives.



Neil DeGrasse Tyson is asked time and time again, literally during every Q+A sessions he ever does after his talks, how to stimulate childrens interest in science and wonder at the world and the universe.

His answer is generally that children ALREADY have that. It is adults that are the problem because they have lost it.

One problem, I suspect, is that the mystery and wonder dries up if we are selling children solely things like Santa. Fantasy narratives that become the source of their wonder which they eventually grow out of and leave them with..... what?

So one thing I strive for myself, and I speak only for myself, is to stimulate mystery and wonder and excitement from the REAL WORLD rather than narratives they will grow out of. And it seems to work pretty well. The real world is awash with sources of wonder and amazement. No one needs to reach for the pre-packaged stuff if they do not want to. Their children are not going to lose out for it's absence.

There is another user on boards who has had some AMAZING descriptions of doing similar with his children. He, for example, Internet ordered one of those flowers that flowers relatively fast. Like in the right light it goes from closed bud to open flower in a mere minute or two. So he sits with his children one night around the closed up flower and turns on a particularly bright bulb.... and his kids he reports sat in wild eyed wonder and astonishment watching the flower and stalk shake with the effort of the flower blooming quickly before their eyes.

Or in another post recently he described cutting tiny windows into developing hens eggs and covering the hole with transparent tape. So now daily he and his kids observe and note the progress of the developing embryo into a fluffy yellow chick.

Now THAT is mystery and wonder and excitement and awe and imagination and beauty all rolled into one. I doubt his kids are going to look back on things like that and say "Awwww but when we got our gifts at christmas you did not inject wonder into our lives by telling them a magic fat man brought them!"

No I reckon they will be EQUALLY grateful to everyone else here who has those santa memories. Perhaps, I can at least dare to SUSPECT..... more so.



Who is NOT doing that exactly? I see nothing wrong with scientists and others like them putting out the information saying "Look, this thing here could be harmful for the following reasons......." and then leaving you to make YOUR choices.

Ensuring you have the best available data and evidence WHILE you make your choices is the exact opposite of impinging on those choices. Merely take the information, or leave it, as you wish. Why does anyone there need to proceed on a vector away from you in a sexual manner?



I do not know anyone who resented them LONG TERM, but I knew quite a few who resented them AT THE TIME.

Predominantly these were the children who believed for the longest. And their resentment stemmed from the fact that they suddenly realize all the other kids were in on the "truth" and they were not, and that sometimes those other kids were even laughing at them for their continuing belief.

And that social embarrassment and anger has to be directed somewhere, and naturally I guess that target usually ended up being the people who maintained the lie. Which is usually the parents.

But I certainly do not know anyone, I think, who failed to quickly recover from it and get over it. No LONG TERM resentment that I know of.



Funny though how "musts" like this actually turn out to not just be false, but the exact opposite is true. `



Why?

And also how can you "take away" something a child never had?



Hah I will see you that one and raise you the fact my brothers wife up to about age 20 thought that stars at night are the souls in heaven looking down.

DredFX wrote: »

They're children. Children are far from the epitome of maturity and something like getting gifts at Christmas is not going to teach them those values by default. Unless their parents are flagrant gobshytes, which is a separate issue entirely.

Your repeated mentions about consumerism and its damage to this planet are making me believe that your agenda is more about tree-hugging than teaching children anything of worth.

Again, they're children. If they grow up to be selfish crapstains, Christmas would not be a variable that any rational human being will consider.

_Jamie_ wrote: »

My husband's brother believed until the first year of secondary school.

ScumLord wrote: »

Do we end up fine though? It's hard to tell from the inside. Where did Millennials come from? The people who thought they could vote for Brexit then change their mind afterwards? The children in America who won't accept the democratic process that didn't go their way?

Maybe it's about time we took a look at our behaviour as a society and made some hard decisions to prevent us turning into ignorant buttercups that winge when we don't get what we want.

Personally I left childhood with a complete disrespect for authority, I don't trust anyone in power, I don't trust our legal system, I don't trust our political system, I don't trust our big economic players. They're all full of excrement and when we come close to calling them out on it they just show us something shiny and we're distracted enough to ignore everything wrong they do.

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

It was my favourite time as a child, waiting for Santa on xmas eve. So many good memories there.

When I learned the truth at 10 or so it had no negative impact on me whatsoever, I was grateful to have had the experience when it lasted.