Louise O Neill on rape culture.

goose2005 · 06-11-2016 05:16PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

She had another ensemble that was very Pretty Woman in high boots, and even had shots of her strolling along alone looking like a movie caricature of a prostitute. It did make me wonder was she doing it on purpose to draw the comments so she could then criticise those same comments. Considering the subject of her programme is was more than odd. Manufacturing the outrage opportunity maybe, if you will.

"And then a boards.ie poster, whose name referred to [trigger warning] gang rape and war rape, called me "Pretty Woman in high boots" and saying I looked like "a movie caricature of a prostitute". #RapeCulture #****ingWhiteMales #AskingForIt

HiGlo · 06-11-2016 05:33PM

I'm not sure if I'll manage to post this without sounding like a feminist. I'm distinctly not (for the record).

As a female, my own understanding of rape culture is a society that allows sexist/chauvinistic behaviour, or stuff like objectification of women in a sexual way, cat calling, random groping on nights out (or wherever) etc.. to go unchecked and allow it to become "normal" or to be expected.
It's a society that doesn't place huge emphasis on how wrong it is to breach consent, or acknowledge how intimidating some situations can be for women.
It's not about the actual act of rape itself, it's more, in my opinion, about the general attitudes or behaviours of the society as a whole that subtly support or reinforce the attitude that rape isn't all that big a deal (perhaps evidenced in sentencing for the crime), or that rape is an unsurprising outcome in some instances eg she was very drunk, scantily dressed etc...

This is just my own general interpretation. As to whether I think it exists in Ireland.... Certainly not when compared to places like India, South Africa etc, but I think there is some element of it alright.
I don't think I would say that it definitely doesn't exist, but I think there's a strong enough majority that doesn't subscribe to it to keep it at bay.

I have never experienced rape myself or know anyone that has, so my knowledge of this whole area is limited but I would imagine that there are rape victims out there who would strongly contradict the notion that rape culture doesn't exist. And I'm sure their own personal experience has entitled them to think that.

I have watched both Audrie & Daisy and also The Hunting Ground on Netflix, but I must admit, I didn't watch Louise O'Neill's programme. For me, The Hunting Ground shows a prime example of rape culture. Shockingly so.

ETA: Apologies, I'm very aware that my post is referencing only female rape. I fully acknowledge that male rape exists and it's just as wrong as any other kind of rape.

Arturo Bandini · 06-11-2016 05:52PM

HiGlo wrote: »

For me, The Hunting Ground shows a prime example of rape culture. Shockingly so.

A documentary made by a feminist who's looking to prove that rape culture is a thing really should be viewed with some skepticism

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/uncategorized/262268-is-the-hunting-ground-documentary-or-propaganda
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/the-continuing-collapse-of-the-hunting-ground-a-campus-sexual-assault-propaganda-film/article/2565464
https://reason.com/blog/2015/11/20/how-the-hunting-ground-spreads-lies-abou

06-11-2016 05:53PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Think rape culture is different to rape.

I mean, rape is rape. Rape culture is the whole depiction or representation of women in a crude or vulgar way as being simply sexual objects, hence from language like "I'd smash her back door in" to dick pics to the inability of some men to understand the word "no" (I don't mean in the context of sex, but even in bars or clubs where you see fellows after a few drinks going for the whining or abusive approach once a woman has made it clear she's not interested).

Regarding the bits in bold, the only people I ever talking about kicking a back door in are gay guys. I thought that was solely a gay expression (back door..?). Ditto gay guys and their dating apps, there are memes about the proliferation of dick pics on those gay apps.

I know lots of women who use tinder, and I've never heard of this being particularly common, but maybe I'm wrong there.

Either way, the examples you reference must surely mean there is a rape culture in the gay community too, and I frankly think most gay men whom I know would find that statement outlandish.

I've been accused of white knight syndrome plenty of times on boards.ie, but even for me, this is a stretch too far.

osmiumartist · 06-11-2016 05:56PM

HiGlo wrote: »

As a female, my own understanding of rape culture is a society that allows sexist/chauvinistic behaviour, or stuff like objectification of women in a sexual way, cat calling, random groping on nights out (or wherever) etc.. to go unchecked and allow it to become "normal" or to be expected.

So in that case you would prefer if a small section of the Irish people being violent be referred to as "universal genocidal death agmageddon"?
Not rape.
Not culture.
Same answer.

mzungu · 06-11-2016 06:00PM

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

And...massive collusion by the organs of state (i.e. The Patriarchy) to keep it all hush-hush.

And yet from Feminists.....not a word.

Well, there was a good few, and it was roundly condemned IIRC, however, not by the celeb element we would be exposed to in this country.

But, given the serious nature of the topic at hand (Rotherham), it's probably a good thing that the usual talking heads decided not to weigh in on it. Look at it this way, after years of writing flimsy anecdotes about how rape culture can be found in almost everything, it should not be a shock that these usual suspects fall silent when a real case actually emerges. A bit like the dog that has caught the car but does not have an iota of what to do next. I'm sure they never expected in a million years to have it land right on their doorstep. They were way out of their depth and they knew it. Staying silent until things blew over was the only way to save face. Writing biased waffle in opinion columns to your own audience is one thing, but writing about a case as serious as Rotherham is something else entirely.

To put in mildly, I don't think they would have the journalistic integrity or tact to deal with such a delicate case. It was better that the reporting was left to more seasoned journalists who are there to present the story and are not interested in petty point scoring on the "gender wars" scoreboard.

ligerdub · 06-11-2016 06:03PM

mzungu wrote: »

Well, there was a good few, and it was roundly condemned IIRC, however, not by the celeb element we would be exposed to in this country.

But, given the serious nature of the topic at hand (Rotherham), it's probably a good thing that the usual talking heads decided not to weigh in on it. Look at it this way, after years of writing flimsy anecdotes about how rape culture can be found in almost everything, it should not be a shock that these usual suspects fall silent when a real case actually emerges. A bit like the dog that has caught the car but does not have an iota of what to do next. I'm sure they never expected in a million years to have it land right on their doorstep. They were way out of their depth and they knew it. Staying silent until things blew over was the only way to save face. Writing bias waffle in opinion columns to your own audience is one thing, but writing about a case as serious as Rotherham is something else entirely.

To put in mildly, I don't think they would have the journalistic integrity or tact to deal with such a delicate case. It was better that the reporting was left to more seasoned journalists who are there to present the story and are not interested in petty point scoring on the "gender wars" scoreboard.

Very well put.

06-11-2016 06:07PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Regarding the bits in bold, the only people I ever talking about kicking a back door in are gay guys. I thought that was solely a gay expression (back door..?). Ditto gay guys and their dating apps, there are memes about the proliferation of dick pics on those gay apps.

I know lots of women who use tinder, and I've never heard of this being particularly common, but maybe I'm wrong there.

Either way, the examples you reference must surely mean there is a rape culture in the gay community too, and I frankly think most gay men whom I know would find that statement outlandish.

I've been accused of white knight syndrome plenty of times on boards.ie, but even for me, this is a stretch too far.

But - and obviously it's all based on the subjective idea of what one thinks of when they think of rape culture - could that not suggest that it has also found an outlet amongst the LGBT community, rather than that it doesn't exist at all? I would concede that I've only heard of it amongst heterosexuals and in the context of male attitudes to women, but I don't doubt what you say.

AnGaelach · 06-11-2016 06:23PM

Sure who'd want to rape her anyway? She'd never shut up or keep her comments to herself. "Is it in yet?", "You need to work on your fitness", "do you even brush your teeth?". Only way it might happen is if you might be trying to rape her just to shove something in her mouth to shut her up.

Mod-Banned

lawlolawl · 06-11-2016 06:28PM

AnGaelach wrote: »

Sure who'd want to rape her anyway? She'd never shut up or keep her comments to herself. "Is it in yet?", "You need to work on your fitness", "do you even brush your teeth?". Only way it might happen is if you might be trying to rape her just to shove something in her mouth to shut her up.

Yowza :eek:

Nice knowing you.

Wibbs · 06-11-2016 06:30PM

AnGaelach wrote: »

Sure who'd want to rape her anyway? She'd never shut up or keep her comments to herself. "Is it in yet?", "You need to work on your fitness", "do you even brush your teeth?". Only way it might happen is if you might be trying to rape her just to shove something in her mouth to shut her up.

*facepalm*

AnGaelach · 06-11-2016 06:41PM

Wibbs wrote: »

*facepalm*

It wasn't the palm I was suggesting you put in her face to shut her up

06-11-2016 07:08PM

AnGaelach wrote: »

Sure who'd want to rape her anyway? She'd never shut up or keep her comments to herself. "Is it in yet?", "You need to work on your fitness", "do you even brush your teeth?". Only way it might happen is if you might be trying to rape her just to shove something in her mouth to shut her up.

"There's no rape culture in Ireland, nope, doesn't exist".

What was that about shoving something in her mouth to shut her up?

Ulysses Gaze · 06-11-2016 07:11PM

AnGaelach wrote: »

Sure who'd want to rape her anyway? She'd never shut up or keep her comments to herself. "Is it in yet?", "You need to work on your fitness", "do you even brush your teeth?". Only way it might happen is if you might be trying to rape her just to shove something in her mouth to shut her up.

Mod-Banned

I thought I felt boards get a little lighter. Now I know why.

We just lost a moron.

Sweetemotion · 06-11-2016 07:12PM

Deleted User wrote: »

"There's no rape culture in Ireland, nope, doesn't exist".

What was that about shoving something in her mouth to shut her up?

Yep, some asshole on an internet forum is definite poof of rape culture in Ireland.

osmiumartist · 06-11-2016 07:14PM

Deleted User wrote: »

"There's no rape culture in Ireland, nope, doesn't exist".

What was that about shoving something in her mouth to shut her up?

315 posts.
One guy immediately banned.
Which one of those facts backs up your case that's there's a widespread culture of applauding rape in Ireland exactly?

arayess · 06-11-2016 07:14PM

Deleted User wrote: »

"There's no rape culture in Ireland, nope, doesn't exist".

What was that about shoving something in her mouth to shut her up?

as they say "one swallow doesn't make a summer "
likewise one moron doesn't make a rape culture either...

and look - he has been lashed out of it thus proving there is no rape culture here.

you should have known better than to get over excited at one fool proving your point. played your hand too early conor74

06-11-2016 07:16PM

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Yep, some asshole on an internet forum is definite poof of rape culture in Ireland.

I guess his experiences taught him to expect an appreciative audience for his "shove yer cock in her mouth to shut her up" quip.

nullzero · 06-11-2016 07:17PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

"There's no rape culture in Ireland, nope, doesn't exist".

What was that about shoving something in her mouth to shut her up?

Conor74, a member of the travelling community, Khalid Kelly and the notion of there being a rape culture in Ireland walk into a bar...

06-11-2016 07:19PM

osmiumartist wrote: »

315 posts.
One guy immediately banned.
Which one of those facts backs up your case that's there's a widespread culture of applauding rape in Ireland exactly?

Ah sure we know it doesn't exist so his post didn't happen. No one said shove a cock in her mouth to shut her up, assuming it was gas.

Fr_Dougal · 06-11-2016 07:21PM

AnGaelach wrote: »

Sure who'd want to rape her anyway? She'd never shut up or keep her comments to herself. "Is it in yet?", "You need to work on your fitness", "do you even brush your teeth?". Only way it might happen is if you might be trying to rape her just to shove something in her mouth to shut her up.

Moronic comments like this is the reason some misguided people will get all confused and triggered and believe that there's a rape culture in this country.

Sweetemotion · 06-11-2016 07:21PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I guess his experiences taught him to expect an appreciative audience for his "shove yer cock in her mouth to shut her up" quip.

Are you actually using that post to say that there is rape culture in Ireland?

RandomAccess · 06-11-2016 07:22PM

Nothing brings out the charlatans quicker than a gravy train.

cloudatlas · 06-11-2016 07:22PM

This is boring she is a bit reactionary I will give you that and not everything she says is poised but who is poised on social media? She has helped many women to come forward and speak about the horror of the sexual assaults they have endured and to get help so I couldn't give a fig that someone on after hours is clutching their handbag at the term 'rape culture' . Her book was important.

ligerdub · 06-11-2016 07:23PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I guess his experiences taught him to expect an appreciative audience for his "shove yer cock in her mouth to shut her up" quip.

If experiences and appreciative audiences are a factor in spouting nonsense then I'm surprised you still come on this message board. I get the popcorn out when I see a new post from you. :cool:

06-11-2016 07:26PM

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Are you actually using that post to say that there is rape culture in Ireland?

Ah no. As I've said already I've relied on a lot more, friends being groped, who can't seem to get men to understand their refusal, drunk women being raped at a party in front of others egging them on, dick pics and so on.

But you have to concede that the whole shove a cock in her might to shut her up type take might not say this stuff is prevalent...but it's a bit of a blow to those who believe it doesn't exist in any shape or form at all at all.

nullzero · 06-11-2016 07:26PM

ligerdub wrote: »

If experiences and appreciative audiences are a factor in spouting nonsense then I'm surprised you still come on this message board. I get the popcorn out when I see a new post from you. :cool:

Ah the perpetually offended on the behalf of others Conor74.
He really should change his name to Helen Lovejoy; "won't someone please think of the travellers/suicide bombers/social justice warriors?"

ligerdub · 06-11-2016 07:27PM

cloudatlas wrote: »

This is boring she is a bit reactionary I will give you that and not everything she says is poised but who is poised on social media? She has helped many women to come forward and speak about the horror of the sexual assaults they have endured and to get help so I couldn't give a fig that someone on after hours is clutching their handbag at the term 'rape culture' . Her book was important.

When that rape culture tag might land a load of innocent men in prison and tags men as predators in development then people have a right BS on her rubbish. They can clutch their handbags all they want.

06-11-2016 07:27PM

ligerdub wrote: »

If experiences and appreciative audiences are a factor in spouting nonsense then I'm surprised you still come on this message board. I get the popcorn out when I see a new post from you. :cool:

I can't say I remember any post by you. Happy to see my posts are an event in your life.

Fr_Dougal · 06-11-2016 07:28PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah no. As I've said already I've relied on a lot more, friends being groped, who can't seem to get men to understand their refusal, drunk women being raped at a party in front of others egging them on, dick pics and so on.

But you have to concede that the whole shove a cock in her might to shut her up type take might not say this stuff is prevalent...but it's a bit of a blow to those who believe it doesn't exist in any shape or form at all at all.

So you've witnessed women being raped at a party and you did nothing?!

Louise O Neill on rape culture.

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