Goodbye Irish Rail?

LXFlyer · 26-10-2016 1:08pm

Bray Head wrote: »

Clearly there are places to do it. Does anyone have any evidence about what share of passengers do so though?

Well apart from the direct trains to Limerick and Kerry which are limited, everyone needs to change. Everyone going to Ballina has to change.

A simple look at the timetable would tell you that much.

As I said above - go and watch in Pearse and Connolly at rush hour and you'll see plenty of people transferring.

foggy_lad · 26-10-2016 1:22pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

So if a train station was built in Killibegs or Castletownbere that would be the solution?

Not really because such perishable freight relies on the train service being reliable which an Irish mountain railway would have trouble with. A train breakdown or signal issue or rockslide could take several hours/days to sort out while a lorry can have a replacement power unit sourced locally in less than an hour.

Carawaystick · 26-10-2016 2:03pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

Not really because such perishable freight relies on the train service being reliable which an Irish mountain railway would have trouble with. A train breakdown or signal issue or rockslide could take several hours/days to sort out while a lorry can have a replacement power unit sourced locally in less than an hour.

I was being a bit tongue in cheek, as stations are little use without train lines...

devnull · 26-10-2016 2:08pm

A few changes at Howth Junction too.

When I worked at Eastpoint, a fair few of my colleagues changed for the DART at Howth Junction and reverse in the evening.

thomond2006 · 26-10-2016 2:08pm

Deedsie wrote: »

Irish Rail really is ran by a bunch of clowns.

It's the NTA that set the fares right? It's their accountability that would concern me.

devnull · 26-10-2016 2:09pm

I actually think Irish Rail has improved in the last few years, still far from a good operator but better than they were.

Del.Monte · 26-10-2016 2:26pm

devnull wrote: »

I actually think Irish Rail has improved in the last few years, still far from a good operator but better than they were.

Any basis in fact for this or is it just your opinion?

end of the road · 26-10-2016 2:36pm

Deedsie wrote: »

Dublin/Limerick to Cork Kent > Cork Kent to Cobh

sligo to maynooth onto the suburban service to get to stops between maynooth and connolly.
for the rosslare trains, bray to get to stops between it and dunlaoighre, dunlaoighre for stations between it and perse, pearse or tara for the busses.

thomond2006 wrote: »

It's the NTA that set the fares right? It's their accountability that would concern me.

in my view they have none. if they implement something i don't agree with i have no come back. that's probably the point though, they exist to try and take the heat off the politicians if cuts happen (as it will be the NTA making that decisian) not that it will ultimately work thankfully

devnull · 26-10-2016 2:41pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

Any basis in fact for this or is it just your opinion?

Any opinion is subjective and there are no facts to prove this either way, just like for anyone arguing the opposite.

thomond2006 · 26-10-2016 3:25pm

Here's a mad thought. Are the very high speed trains in Japan expensive to run? Cork to Dublin in 20 minutes in the year 2255? :pac:

Del.Monte · 26-10-2016 3:27pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Here's a mad thought. Are the very high speed trains in Japan expensive to run?

Yes, and the Japanese rail system has been on the verge of bankruptcy for decades but provides a vital service.

josip · 26-10-2016 3:40pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

Yes, and the Japanese rail system has been on the verge of bankruptcy for decades but provides a vital service.

Are there any/many countries that are able to make their rail network commercially viable or run it with reasonable state aid?

Or does a rail network fall into the same category as health services?

Del.Monte · 26-10-2016 3:47pm

An old 1980s article about Japanese railways - sorry for the size but it's readable if you enlarge it up on your laptop - and most if not all railways depend on State subsidies but in the future who knows how things will evolve and they could be profitable again.

Del.Monte · 26-10-2016 4:07pm

Scanned this one while I'm at it. The writer sums up CIE fairly well.

Stephen15 · 26-10-2016 4:41pm

josip wrote: »

Are there any/many countries that are able to make their rail network commercially viable or run it with reasonable state aid?

Or does a rail network fall into the same category as health services?

DB made a €1.34 billion profit in 2013 perhaps due to their overseas operations like Arriva and Schenker.

Isambard · 26-10-2016 7:08pm

you can safely assume that's not Dublin Bus

L1011 · 26-10-2016 7:13pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

DB made a €1.34 billion profit in 2013 perhaps due to their overseas operations like Arriva and Schenker.

Arriva sucking up PSO funding in other countries helps a lot there.

Some US commuter services make very large profits for their owners, usually city or state governments. Amtrak funds most of its network from the Acela.

IE 222 · 26-10-2016 7:36pm

I believe Dart Underground and a expansion of Dart would make all Dublin area and Suburban services profitable. Albeit the profits will be lost on other activities.

yer man! · 26-10-2016 8:03pm

Irishrail's 2030 rail strategy report is pretty good at what needs to be achieved to turn rail around for Ireland and make it something worthwhile for the state. Of course not one thing on the report has been adopted.

http://www.irishrail.ie/about-us/rail-vision-2030

Del.Monte · 26-10-2016 8:12pm

IE 222 wrote: »

I believe Dart Underground and a expansion of Dart would make all Dublin area and Suburban services profitable. Albeit the profits will be lost on other activities.

Commuter services are unprofitable by their very nature i.e. large quantities of rolling stock needed for just a few hours each day and DART type stock can't be taken for other services in the way the old diesel hauled stock used to be.

Grandeeod · 26-10-2016 9:47pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

Commuter services are unprofitable by their very nature i.e. large quantities of rolling stock needed for just a few hours each day and DART type stock can't be taken for other services in the way the old diesel hauled stock used to be.

That is so 1985.:D

.....and 87 88 89 90 91 92 93....I give up now. But seriously, don't let CIE cloud your judgement, just because they can't run things properly. Commuter services done right can generate lots of revenue.

Del.Monte · 26-10-2016 9:52pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

That is so 1985.:D

.....and 87 88 89 90 91 92 93....I give up now. But seriously, don't let CIE cloud your judgement, just because they can't run things properly. Commuter services done right can generate lots of revenue.

1983 I think you'll find was the peak year fpr robbing suburban stock at weekends. Happy days.

Grandeeod · 26-10-2016 9:56pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

1983 I think you'll find was the peak year fpr robbing suburban stock at weekends. Happy days.

Just before the now scrapped/Belmond Hibernian retained MK3 stock came into play and just about saved things for a few years. We are on the same page.:D

BonnieSituation · 26-10-2016 10:01pm

IE 222 wrote: »

I believe Dart Underground and a expansion of Dart would make all Dublin area and Suburban services profitable. Albeit the profits will be lost on other activities.

Why is there an obsession with public run railways to make a profit? Reduce costs sure but we shouldn't reduce functionality. Increasing functionality increases use and income.

A functioning transport system contributes to society in multiples of what it "costs".

If we have an efficient way of getting from A to B suddenly there is a less of a requirement to live in "B". Demand for housing in "B" goes down.
Costs subside and people can then spend their money on other things. Those costs are also borne by businesses who can now employ more people because of this transport system.

Those same businesses have happier employees because commutes aren't stressful or insane so they are more productive.

A less stressed workforce is a healthier workforce and the pressures on mental health services reduce along with other sectors.

Because of all this extra time people have they tend to exercise and play more sport etc as well.

These are the hidden costs of of a sh!tty transport system. And this is why it continues to baffle me why we treat transport in this country as a burden.

And then you get muck like this:

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/time-to-get-irish-rail-service-priorities-back-on-track-1.2843329

JP Liz V1 · 26-10-2016 11:56pm

The online prices should be available for walk ups at station counter too

devnull · 27-10-2016 12:20am

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

The online prices should be available for walk ups at station counter too

For that to happen the company would either need a huge amount of more funding or to dramatically cut back services.

Isambard · 27-10-2016 8:31am

devnull wrote: »

For that to happen the company would either need a huge amount of more funding or to dramatically cut back services.

or just maybe they might have to add extra services to cope with the demand.
There is a vast number of people in Ireland not on the Internet.

josip · 27-10-2016 8:56am

Isambard wrote: »

or just maybe they might have to add extra services to cope with the demand.
There is a vast number of people in Ireland not on the Internet.

Only 15% of the population of Ireland do not have internet access at home.
http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/isshh/informationsocietystatistics-households2015/
And some of those would not be potential rail users (eg. my mother)
I think 'vast' is overstating it a bit.

devnull · 27-10-2016 9:18am

Isambard wrote: »

or just maybe they might have to add extra services to cope with the demand.
There is a vast number of people in Ireland not on the Internet.

The most demand does not equals the most revenue in the majority of cases. There is always a tipping point in relation to this, in that if you reduce prices too much the amount you lose from the reduced fares is greater than the amount you gain from increasing customer numbers.

As I said, for example at a friend who works for a football club in the UK, they can get 23,000 ticket holders quite easily by reducing prices but this means they barely break even for a match day. If they have 19,000 in the stadium at a higher price they can make money.

josip · 27-10-2016 9:34am

devnull wrote: »

The most demand does not equals the most revenue in the majority of cases. There is always a tipping point in relation to this, in that if you reduce prices too much the amount you lose from the reduced fares is greater than the amount you gain from increasing customer numbers.

As I said, for example at a friend who works for a football club in the UK, they can get 23,000 ticket holders quite easily by reducing prices but this means they barely break even for a match day. If they have 19,000 in the stadium at a higher price they can make money.

But an extra 4,000 supporters for every home game might mean that they win more matches and end up getting promoted to a higher division with greater TV revenues?

Unless they're Leeds.

Goodbye Irish Rail?

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