Goodbye Irish Rail?

monument · 24-10-2016 11:11pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

Typical bs by some expert who hasn't a clue. Even Mary Wilson sees contradiction of promoting Wild Atlantic Way and possible WRC closure.

Please deal with what they have said and why they don't have a clue, not just on them apparently not having a clue.

-- moderator

Del.Monte wrote: »

Mark Gleeson on now - yawn.

Productive posting please -- focus on the points and not attacks on people here or elsewhere.

-- moderator

Jamie2k9 · 24-10-2016 11:11pm

IE 222 wrote: »

Could a six car 2x3 set not be split at Muine Bheag or Carlow one runs express to Thomastown and Waterford and other direct to KilKenny.

On return they can recouple in Muine Bheag.

All well in and good until sets won't couple in Muine Bheag and second driver just won't work. BTW way to much capacity outside peak hours anyway. I also believe (may be wrong) but drivers don't couple sets.

We will soon have a morning and evening express. A set of points and a second platform in Waterford would benefit passengers

micosoft · 24-10-2016 11:11pm

Logue no2 wrote: »

€37.98 return on Friday using peak time trains. Walk up fares are always more expensive. Even cheaper if travelling off peak for one or both legs of the journey.

I only need to walkup to my car. Or bus for that matter. And the convenience of choosing whenever I want to travel.

tabbey · 24-10-2016 11:17pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Do you use the services?

I last took the train to Waterford about two years ago.
Since then I have driven there about eight times.

Of course the major reason for me is that it is handy to drive across the M50, onto N7 - M7 - M9. While getting to Heuston requires two buses, (or train + tram, which is more costly).
However, if the speed, frequency and fares were more attractive,I would use the train more often.

monument · 24-10-2016 11:19pm

BTW for reference Denmark is only partly attached to mainland Europe and it's partly a bunch of islands.

The Copenhagen - Hamburg etc rail service does not use the mainland Europe part of Denmark, it gets into a ferry. Yes, the train goes into a ferry:

My point is: If you're going on an anti-rail rant, please try to get the details half right!

monument · 24-10-2016 11:23pm

tabbey wrote: »

I last took the train to Waterford about two years ago.
Since then I have driven there about eight times.

Of course the major reason for me is that it is handy to drive across the M50, onto N7 - M7 - M9. While getting to Heuston requires two buses, (or train + tram, which is more costly).
However, if the speed, frequency and fares were more attractive,I would use the train more often.

That and a few other points made in this thread reinforces the point I've made previously that Dart Underground would hugely benefit the access and attractiveness of Intercity rail.

Wanderer78 · 24-10-2016 11:26pm

monument wrote: »

That and a few other points made in this thread reinforces the point I've made previously that Dart Underground would hugely benefit the access and attractiveness of Intercity rail.

damn expensive though

Jamie2k9 · 24-10-2016 11:28pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

damn expensive though

If that money was pumped into the current network it would transform it

IE 222 · 24-10-2016 11:31pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

All well in and good until sets won't couple in Muine Bheag and second driver just won't work. BTW way to much capacity outside peak hours anyway. I also believe (may be wrong) but drivers don't couple sets.

We will soon have a morning and evening express. A set of points and a second platform in Waterford would benefit passengers

Why won't they couple in Muine Bheag. Extra driver is a slight issues but proper planning 1 or 2 extra driver should cover tasks.

Won't be extra capacity still the same amount of services just a rerouting at rush hour.

Jamie2k9 · 24-10-2016 11:49pm

IE 222 wrote: »

Why won't they couple in Muine Bheag. Extra driver is a slight issues but proper planning 1 or 2 extra driver should cover tasks.

Won't be extra capacity still the same amount of services just a rerouting at rush hour.

Because the coupler's are very sensitive and regularly won't hook up properly. IE only do coupling in very few places because of it. Un coupling is done anywhere because it causes no problems.

IE have the morning rush hour done with the 07.10 and they will soon follow with en evening service.

monument · 24-10-2016 11:56pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

damn expensive though

That's the old Irish way of looking at the cost of everything but the value of nothing.

Dart Underground has one of the best returns for spending (cost-benefit) of any large transport project.

end of the road · 25-10-2016 12:03am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Because the coupler's are very sensitive and regularly won't hook up properly.

was that down to the train builders, or more incompetents in specification from IE? Other countries manage splitting and joining at stations perfectly, just here and much of the uk can't seem to manage it as per usual

dashcamdanny · 25-10-2016 12:06am

I worked as a contractor with them for years. Was a real eye opener.

The amount of wasted steel and matrials was ridicules.
Men sitting doing nothing

I came out of the private sector where one had to burst their balls working from start to finish. And then had a 4 year hoilday with IR..

Its a big blank cheque book they have.. I always said it could never last....

foggy_lad · 25-10-2016 12:20am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Because the coupler's are very sensitive and regularly won't hook up properly. IE only do coupling in very few places because of it. Un coupling is done anywhere because it causes no problems.

IE have the morning rush hour done with the 07.10 and they will soon follow with en evening service.

If the train uncoupled in Mhuine Beag on the way down would there be a slot available for the Kilkenny train to return to Heuston earlier and the Waterford section just turn around in waterford and return as a 3/4 car set?

Jamie2k9 · 25-10-2016 12:42am

foggy_lad wrote: »

If the train uncoupled in Mhuine Beag on the way down would there be a slot available for the Kilkenny train to return to Heuston earlier and the Waterford section just turn around in waterford and return as a 3/4 car set?

It just over complicates things, express service only needed morning/evening and the evening can be facilitated with limited changes.

hytrogen · 25-10-2016 1:04am

I'm listening to an MEP and an Iarnrod Eireann spokesman clash on overcrowding on Sligo train on Ocean FM, it's on podcast from earlier yesterday. The lad from IE is admitting that the lines are over crowded and under resourced so anyone spoofing that the trains are empty on this island needs to reexamine their perspective on life

Jamie2k9 · 25-10-2016 1:16am

hytrogen wrote: »

I'm listening to an MEP and an Iarnrod Eireann spokesman clash on overcrowding on Sligo train on Ocean FM, it's on podcast from earlier yesterday. The lad from IE is admitting that the lines are over crowded and under resourced so anyone spoofing that the trains are empty on this island needs to reexamine their perspective on life

Sligo is mainly only overcrowded 2 days a week, outside that yes the odd service would be. It really depends on what you class as over crowding. It's more less the same everywhere but some lines are worst more regularly.

On a relevant note, IE are getting 50 million extra this year. Given they need 650 million up to 2021, it's easy to see they are going to receive most of it over next 5 years so a lot of the fuss is over nothing. The report leak was most likely to test the water for possible closures (3 regional routes only) nothing more.

Banjoxed · 25-10-2016 1:59am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Sligo is mainly only overcrowded 2 days a week, outside that yes the odd service would be. It really depends on what you class as over crowding. It's more less the same everywhere but some lines are worst more regularly.
On a relevant note, IE are getting 50 million extra this year. Given they need 650 million up to 2021, it's easy to see they are going to receive most of it over next 5 years so a lot of the fuss is over nothing. The report leak was most likely to test the water for possible closures (3 regional routes only) nothing more.

Just like every other rail closure, more will be wanted and no closure will never be enough.

GM228 · 25-10-2016 6:32am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

On a relevant note, IE are getting 50 million extra this year.

Where did you get the €50m figure from?

josip · 25-10-2016 9:50am

Does IR know what percentage of the passengers who board/alight at McDonagh walk to/from the station?

If the majority of people continued by car/taxi/bus would it make sense to build a new station out at the loop and run a shuttle bus/train into McDonagh/Kilkenny centre?

Del.Monte · 25-10-2016 9:53am

josip wrote: »

Does IR know what percentage of the passengers who board/alight at McDonagh walk to/from the station?

If the majority of people continued by car/taxi/bus would it make sense to build a new station out at the loop and run a shuttle bus/train into McDonagh/Kilkenny centre?

No, once you start this lark you might as well put them on a bus at Heuston. I'm surprised that CIE haven't already done this as they love closing places down and flogging off land.

devnull · 25-10-2016 10:27am

All just a ploy to get extra PSO.

Surprised people took the bait here.

Del.Monte · 25-10-2016 10:30am

devnull wrote: »

All just a ploy to get extra PSO.

Surprised people took the bait here.

Sure it is. :rolleyes:

Lines will close as a result of this - the South Wexford line was closed by a government with Green ministers.

Bray Head · 25-10-2016 10:46am

People are using the term 'network' very loosely.
A network implies that there are benefits of connectivity and that you don't just look at small stretches in isolation.
The issue is that there is very little intra-modal or inter-modal connections anywhere in Irish public transport. People just use it for point-to-point journeys and then maybe use taxi, foot or car at the other end. There isn't really a rail 'network' in Ireland.
I would confidently predict that closure of Ballybrophy to Limerick would have zero impact on anyone's probability of taking the DART from Bray to Connolly.

Emme · 25-10-2016 10:59am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Only in Ireland do they see consistent under investment followed by a fall off in use as the perfect storm for closures.

When you open a Motorway to Wexford and Waterford but still have brutal times for the train from the same place to Dublin then of course you get a fall off. Same will happen everywhere. Only Dublin to Cork can compete with the Motorway and even then it is still way too long and too meandering.

If they want to increase revenues have sensible timetabling and a proper network.

I recently got the train to Lim Jnc and it was a breeze in comparision to the drive and it was pleasant and relaxing. It's a no brainer to take the train when cost and time sees fit for me.

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Absolutely no need for an intercity rail network in a country the size and with population densities of Ireland.

Taxpayers shouldn't be continually tapped up because some people are too posh to get a bus or to keep feathered union boys in the style they've become accustomed to.

Rip up the rail network, replace it with greenways and let the private bus operators pick up the slack.

Road is quicker, cheaper and more environmentally friendly.
Persisting with this 19th century technology in a modern world is madness.

The Waterford train is far from ideal but in the last year it is better than the alternative. Some private buses don't go to places like Athy so they are still depending on the train even though there would be a demand there. A friend in Athy said that a group has been set up to deal with the abysmal train service there. Apparently there's no working toilets in the station there and inadequate wheelchair access. The platform there is so packed in the mornings it looks like something from Camp of the Saints.

I usually get the train from Carlow but today I had to take the car because a few of us are going out for a birthday dinner. Last train on the Waterford line leaves at 20.15 so it would be a bit of a rush to get it. I didn't get out of 3rd gear once I got onto the M7 from the M9 and on to work near Inchicore. 90 minutes to get from the M9/M7 junction to Inchicore. It took me 25 minutes to get there from Carlow driving normally. Traffic is so bad now at rush hour that you cannot drive normally (ie over 3rd gear) once you hit the M9/M7 junction.

Jamie2k9 · 25-10-2016 11:14am

GM228 wrote: »

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

On a relevant note, IE are getting 50 million extra this year.

Where did you get the 50m figure from?

Read it, according to a minster spokesperson Budget 2017 provides for over 50 million for maintenance, track renewal, rolling stock and signalling project.

Will find a link when on a laptop. I was surprised it was this much as well as I don't think it was overly clear on Budget day so hopefully they get this amount.

Infini · 25-10-2016 11:27am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

damn expensive though

As the old saying goes you get what you pay gor. Sadly we had gombeens prioritising a glorified tram (which has been pointed out before will be not suitable to match capacity when it opens) over expansion of the heavy rail network instead of investing in a much more immediate and effective solution.

end of the road · 25-10-2016 2:20pm

Bray Head wrote: »

People are using the term 'network' very loosely.
A network implies that there are benefits of connectivity and that you don't just look at small stretches in isolation.
The issue is that there is very little intra-modal or inter-modal connections anywhere in Irish public transport. People just use it for point-to-point journeys and then maybe use taxi, foot or car at the other end. There isn't really a rail 'network' in Ireland.
I would confidently predict that closure of Ballybrophy to Limerick would have zero impact on anyone's probability of taking the DART from Bray to Connolly.

ireland has a rail network. no matter how one tries to twist it. plenty of people do connect onto other trains, just because you say so otherwise or don't see it happening doesn't mean it isn't happening.

BonnieSituation · 25-10-2016 2:22pm

Emme wrote: »

The Waterford train is far from ideal but in the last year it is better than the alternative. Some private buses don't go to places like Athy so they are still depending on the train even though there would be a demand there. A friend in Athy said that a group has been set up to deal with the abysmal train service there. Apparently there's no working toilets in the station there and inadequate wheelchair access. The platform there is so packed in the mornings it looks like something from Camp of the Saints.

I usually get the train from Carlow but today I had to take the car because a few of us are going out for a birthday dinner. Last train on the Waterford line leaves at 20.15 so it would be a bit of a rush to get it. I didn't get out of 3rd gear once I got onto the M7 from the M9 and on to work near Inchicore. 90 minutes to get from the M9/M7 junction to Inchicore. It took me 25 minutes to get there from Carlow driving normally. Traffic is so bad now at rush hour that you cannot drive normally (ie over 3rd gear) once you hit the M9/M7 junction.

Point still stands though. Forgiving the joke of a traffic situation we have in Dublin now, the Train to Waterford wasn't as good as it could be. Which we all know, and given the option most drive because of that.

---

Dublin is visibly coming to a standstill in front of our eyes. It's frightening how much inaction [sic] there is about it. It's plain for us all to see what needs to be done.

I get the 25A/25B bus from Lucan every morning into the CC and between getting stuck in Griffeen, Palmerstown and then finally from Capel St on it has become unbelievable. That left turn onto Jervis has a lot to answer for.

I've started to get off at Ormond Quay instead of Bachelor's Walk as it is quicker to walk now!

Bray Head · 25-10-2016 2:37pm

end of the road wrote: »

Bray Head wrote: »

People are using the term 'network' very loosely.
A network implies that there are benefits of connectivity and that you don't just look at small stretches in isolation.
The issue is that there is very little intra-modal or inter-modal connections anywhere in Irish public transport. People just use it for point-to-point journeys and then maybe use taxi, foot or car at the other end. There isn't really a rail 'network' in Ireland.
I would confidently predict that closure of Ballybrophy to Limerick would have zero impact on anyone's probability of taking the DART from Bray to Connolly.

ireland has a rail network. no matter how one tries to twist it. plenty of people do connect onto other trains, just because you say so otherwise or don't see it happening doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Ireland has a rail system, but not really a rail network.
What % of passengers use two successive heavy rail journeys to make a trip?
My guess is that it is extremely low. But I am happy if you have data to prove me wrong.

Goodbye Irish Rail?

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