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Dem cyclists all break de lights Joe!

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    #122
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,611 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    I have always said, your far better using hand signals used by the military in movies than legal hand signals as most road users are more likely to recognise and understand them :D


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    #123
    josip
    Registered Users Posts: 13,740 ✭✭✭✭josip


    average_runner wrote: »
    Jaysus the same can be said for cyclists and their hand signals. Oh wait i turn this corner but i won't let anyone around me know I will do it

    I'll signal approaching the corner, but before I start the turn I'll have both hands on the bars to be safer.
    Someone who recently arrived or wasn't paying attention may think I haven't signaled but that's not my problem.
    It can be hard for motorists who don't cycle to understand the need for both hands on the bars while turning.


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    #124
    eeguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭eeguy


    ted1 wrote: »
    Speed wobbles +hand signals = disaster.

    Try sticking your hand out and turning on some of Dublin's roads.
    The shakes would knock you off the bike.


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    #125
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,753 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    josip wrote: »
    the need for both hands on the bars while turning.

    Especially on a Brompton.


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    #126
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,849 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    ted1 wrote: »
    Speed wobbles +hand signals = disaster.


    Its the law!


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    #127
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,849 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    josip wrote: »
    I'll signal approaching the corner, but before I start the turn I'll have both hands on the bars to be safer.
    Someone who recently arrived or wasn't paying attention may think I haven't signaled but that's not my problem.
    It can be hard for motorists who don't cycle to understand the need for both hands on the bars while turning.


    Thats fair enough, even when switching lanes it should be done.

    I drive along the link road at grange castle every morning, there is a cyclist on it sometimes in a boards top, who will signal when moving lane or turning right at roundabout. Fair play to that person


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    #128
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    average_runner wrote: »
    Its the law!

    So is cycling with two hands on the handlebars.


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    #129
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,222 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    So is cycling with two hands on the handlebars.

    You sure? How can a cyclist give hand signals without removing one hand from the bars?

    Cycling with both hands off the bars is probably illegal, but I doubt having only one hand on the bars is illegal


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    #130
    boardbeer
    Registered Users Posts: 138 ✭✭boardbeer


    Some jurisdictions categorise hand signals as either warning signals (mandatory), or courtesy signals. The first are obvious: I'm going to pull out / turn across another traffic lane, and you need to know this, while courtesy signals are in cases where the information that you are going to turn cannot be used by the observer, kind of a FYI; for example, if I'm taking the next left, it's light-controlled, then cars waiting to join from that junction can do nothing with the information, nor following vehicles.

    The Institute of Advanced Motorists teach that you should minimise spurious signals, as it adds to the cognitive burden of other drivers without providing any useful information, e.g., when returning to your lane after an overtake.

    My biggest concern tho, is when I see a cyclist (usually hi-vized and helmeted) stick the arm straight out, exact 90 degrees and unwavering and turn like that: no head movement, no life saver. Fully compliant with every rule in the book, except common sense.


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    #131
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,849 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    So is cycling with two hands on the handlebars.


    Don't think so, but if you can provide a link, fair enough


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    #132
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,379 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Chuchote wrote: »
    So true - especially as drivers don't understand cyclists' legal, standard signals.
    I always signal on one turn on my daily commute since cars are trying to pull out and I do not want to hold them up. Many see me but still wait for me to turn, as though they are not sure, so I may as well not be signalling at all.

    I usuall ignore signalling from cars, I take notice but would not trust they will do what they indicate. I have often found they are indicating by mistake, like it was left on by mistake, or they indicate the wrong direction by mistake, maybe used to another car with different controls. However I have never seen a cyclist signal by mistake so would trust they are going to turn.


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    #133
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    boardbeer wrote: »
    The Institute of Advanced Motorists teach that you should minimise spurious signals, as it adds to the cognitive burden of other drivers without providing any useful information, e.g., when returning to your lane after an overtake.

    My biggest concern tho, is when I see a cyclist (usually hi-vized and helmeted) stick the arm straight out, exact 90 degrees and unwavering and turn like that: no head movement, no life saver. Fully compliant with every rule in the book, except common sense.

    What do they reckon is a spurious signal? 'Spurious' would seem to mean false?

    You may have missed the "cyclist (usually hi-vized and helmeted)" (do you object to hi-viz and helmet? That's unusual among drivers) looking behind before signalling. Most drivers don't watch cyclists unwaveringly.


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    #134
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,222 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    Chuchote wrote: »
    What do they reckon is a spurious signal? 'Spurious' would seem to mean false?

    You may have missed the "cyclist (usually hi-vized and helmeted)" (do you object to hi-viz and helmet? That's unusual among drivers) looking behind before signalling. Most drivers don't watch cyclists unwaveringly.

    I agree with @broadbear I see cyclists turn without looking over their shoulder all the time. it has nothing to do with what the cyclist is eearing, he'll plenty of motorists don't know what indicators are either!


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    #135
    boardbeer
    Registered Users Posts: 138 ✭✭boardbeer


    Chuchote wrote: »
    What do they reckon is a spurious signal? 'Spurious' would seem to mean false?
    Sorry, wrong word, I mean superfluous, unnecessary.
    You may have missed the "cyclist (usually hi-vized and helmeted)" (do you object to hi-viz and helmet? That's unusual among drivers) looking behind before signalling. Most drivers don't watch cyclists unwaveringly.
    I don't object to hi-viz or helmets (nor miraculous medals, for that matter), but even if you miss the exact moment of head-turn, you can recognise if the rider is actively observing. Spend some time giving RoSPA (motor-)bike training and you get the knack of detecting when someone is not on the ball in that respect.


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    #136
    NiallBoo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭NiallBoo


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    So is cycling with two hands on the handlebars.

    AFAIK it's a little more grey than that.
    I don't think having two (or any) hands on the bars is specifically required, but there is something about staying in control of your vehicle.

    Indicating can certainly conflict with keeping control. Imo there are definitely cases where keeping your hands on the bars is safer than indicating.


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    #137
    NiallBoo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭NiallBoo


    boardbeer wrote: »
    when I see a cyclist stick the arm straight out, exact 90 degrees and unwavering and turn like that. .. Fully compliant with every rule in the book, except common sense.

    It's not compliant with the rules.
    You have to look.

    I think it's a more general problem that some feel that indicating gives you the right to make a move.


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    #138
    jive
    Registered Users Posts: 5,762 ✭✭✭jive


    NiallBoo wrote: »
    It's not compliant with the rules.
    You have to look.

    I think it's a more general problem that some feel that indicating gives you the right to make a move.

    Irish drivers are up there with the worst motorists when it comes to the indicators and decency. When indicating to move out of a merging lane, for example, more often than not Irish motorists will think that this guy is pulling a fast one and try to block the space.

    In fact I say Irish motorists but I only see this regularly in Dublin where everyone's time is so much more valuable than everyone else everywhere ever.


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    #139
    jive
    Registered Users Posts: 5,762 ✭✭✭jive


    NiallBoo wrote: »
    Indicating can certainly conflict with keeping control. Imo there are definitely cases where keeping your hands on the bars is safer than indicating.

    This is definitely the case. I opt for a common sense approach here, while in the eyes of the law I am definitely in the wrong I'd rather be wrong than right if being right means I end up in a heap on the ground. There's 1 turn on my commute where I know I cannot indicate even though I should because the road is full of uneven lumps of tar which were flaked down on the road to fix holes.


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    #140
    NiallBoo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭NiallBoo


    jive wrote: »
    Irish drivers are up there with the worst motorists when it comes to the indicators and decency. When indicating to move out of a merging lane, for example, more often than not Irish motorists will think that this guy is pulling a fast one and try to block the space.

    I suppose there's two cases here - one where the person is just being petty and another where the person is trying to dissuade someone from making an obviously stupid manoeuvre.


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    #141
    Veloce150
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Veloce150


    It's often unwise to signal left turns when cycling as to do so just invites drivers to overtake you while turning left and cut in on you in the cusp of the corner.

    In that situation, it's better to keep them guessing.


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    #142
    Dermot Illogical
    Registered Users Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭Dermot Illogical


    boardbeer wrote: »
    The Institute of Advanced Motorists teach that you should minimise spurious signals, as it adds to the cognitive burden of other drivers without providing any useful information, e.g., when returning to your lane after an overtake.

    Returning to the lane after an overtake is expected behaviour and should not be indicated. It can too easily be confused with "Now that I'm done overtaking slowcoach Imma just dart into that left turn there".
    It's not that it doesn't provide useful information. It provides false information.


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    #143
    Dermot Illogical
    Registered Users Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭Dermot Illogical


    Veloce150 wrote: »
    It's often unwise to signal left turns when cycling as to do so just invites drivers to overtake you while turning left and cut in on you in the cusp of the corner.

    In that situation, it's better to keep them guessing.

    Keep out from the kerb and you'll be grand. I always signal and have yet to get cut into a corner. Just take the space.


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    #144
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    I tend to make signals according to the size of the turn - a generous arm-out for a right or left turn, but a vague right or left turn if I'm overtaking or moving in.

    Those drivers who actually 'see' cyclists seem to understand these. The many drivers to whom we are magically invisible don't see them.


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    #145
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,608 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Yesterday I was turning right, turned around to see what was behind me, woman in a car made eye contact with me and mouthed "F*** off" and put the boot down to block me moving out to turn!!

    You get a lot of people accelerating to block cyclists from turning in front of them when the see the arm signal for whatever reason, 80% however back off and let you make the turn.


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    #146
    eeguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭eeguy


    John_Rambo wrote: »

    You get a lot of people accelerating to block cyclists from turning in front of them when the see the arm signal for whatever reason, 80% however back off and let you make the turn.
    Times like that you'd want to have a can of coke in your pocket.
    Crack it open and throw it in her window.


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    #147
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    Yesterday I was turning right, turned around to see what was behind me, woman in a car made eye contact with me and mouthed "F*** off" and put the boot down to block me moving out to turn!!

    You get a lot of people accelerating to block cyclists from turning in front of them when the see the arm signal for whatever reason, 80% however back off and let you make the turn.

    I had a nice "lady" inform me I was in her "fcuking way" a few weeks ago. I was cycling centre lane at the east of Stephens Green, heading into Merrion Row. She'd spotted the traffic backed up, so took a sudden left, without indicating and came close to colliding with me, despite huge flashing strobes.

    Another thing I notice is motorists driving almost at the kerb, presumably with the intention of stopping cyclists filtering. Had one this morning at Castleknock, but a while back I had someone stay left, then deliberately veer right to try stop me passing them.

    You've really got to wonder the impact of sitting in traffic day in day out. Sends some people potty.


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    #148
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,906 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    plenty of people in castleknock with the attitude 'I PAID €80,000 FOR THIS VEHICLE AND I'M NOT LETTING SOME PIPE FITTER ON A €200 BIKE OVERTAKE ME'. i bet.
    to be fair, they're just looking for return on investment.


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    #149
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,608 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    eeguy wrote: »
    Times like that you'd want to have a can of coke in your pocket.
    Crack it open and throw it in her window.

    Nah. Just let her fly, not interested in conflict. But there's definitely an attitude out there with some drivers that wasn't there four years ago. Punishment passes, blocking, aggressive positioning, and revving engines to intimidate. Not everyone, just a minority few out there.

    A while ago gently I knocked on a car window, he was stopped in traffic on a dark winters evening, he lowered his window an inch and said "what's your f*ing problem" I said "you're lights are off, they could be broken, just thought you should know" He rolled up the window and turned on his lights whilst staring ahead. No thanks, just stared ahead like I was never there!

    I was surprised, his initial reaction was very hostile, I was only helping and when I pointed out what the issue I guess he was embarrassed.

    I'm a keen motorist myself and would have done the exact same if I was in my car, but I reckon I would have got a different reaction.


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    #150
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    I'm amazed at the way drivers who flash hazards in thanks to each other for help don't do the same to cyclists. Amazed.


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    #151
    Roadhawk
    Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Roadhawk


    Chuchote wrote: »
    I'm amazed at the way drivers who flash hazards in thanks to each other for help don't do the same to cyclists. Amazed.

    I hit my hazards to thank a cyclist before. I was on college green with trinity to my left (at the main gate) and wanted to go left toward Nassau St. but there was a cyclist to my left. I wasn't sure if he was heading right for Dame St or left to Nassau but then he had a quick look over his shoulder saw me and gave a left hand signal. I gave him the 1.5 and a wink of the hazards as I passed.


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